Number of riders doing permanents and DIYs.

[Exit Stage Left]

I was looking for the date when the Orient Express was ridden by a group. September 2004 was the answer. That ride is essentially two rides joined together, one from Calais to the heel of Italy, and one from the port in Greece opposite there to Istanbul. So the permanent results show some riders twice in the same ride.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2004/listevent/?Ride=P0138

So I wondered how that might affect the totals of different riders completing perms and DIYs. I looked at Perms and DIYs with a high participation rate, and some riders came up more often than others. However, the totals at the top of the result pages reflect the completions, not the number of different riders. The most popular DIYs are 200s, here's one list from a region in 2017.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=THDIY02

I wonder how I can analyse the results to find out how many different people ride calendar events, permanents and DIYs. The perception is that Perms and DIYs represent growth in participation exceeding the growth in calendar events. I'm interested in the overlap between participation between those three modes.

[Manotea]

Theres been growth in DIYs compared with Cals but that's because DIYs emerged from a standing start, and the ongoing development of DIY validation options has also helped fuel interest so fears that DIYs are taking overthe world are somewhat premature.

FWIW in the SE at least DIY rides are down this year compared with last; my perception is that its because of a long miserable spring. Whether thats true of Cals I don't know.

Also total DIY validation trends are easily skewed by a small number of riders chasing points. All the point chasers seem to live in Bristol at the moment... 

[IanDG]

A general swing towards 7-day working and shifts? Less time available for weekend events so DIYs planned for your day off?

[Exit Stage Left]

I get the impression that there's a central core of riders for whom perms and DIYs are their regular 200km circuits. Some do shorter circuits if there are AAA points. It might be points-chasing, or it might be just an additional incentive to get out.

It's an impression, so it would be interesting to see what the stats say. In the example of DIYs in the South West, 129 different people did 853 rides. One rider did 45 DIYs.

DIYs are less popular in the North West, where 8 riders did 49 of them.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=JDDIY02

Essentially the same riders also did multiple 200 km permanents. 6 riders doing 18 of the same perm.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=NH04

I know that one of those is in the Fire service, and that's long been linked with Audax in the area.

[Phil W]

Stats will not confirm your impressions, you would have to ask the riders, and I am sure you would get many different replies.  For me it is a convenience thing as I do not have every weekend free.  There are 440 perms and many pass close by and can be ridden any time.  Calendar events that suit and fall on the right dates are less frequent.

[IanDG]

Much the same for me. If I was doing the same job, shift pattern on the mainland then I would only have 1 weekend in 4 free so availability for events limited. That's why my GPS DIY rides have been midweek.

Travel to events is also an issue for me of course.

[Exit Stage Left]

There's a split between those doing a regular circuit which is a permanent,
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2018/listevent/?Ride=NA04

and those permanents which don't get repeated.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2018/listevent/?Ride=NWK07

Rides up to 200km with 10 participations or more tend to have repeats. It's not a problem, except that rising validation fees might affect the number of repeats. It also tends to skew the average age of participants when multi-riders are retired. The average age of completed rides is different from the average age of riders.

The work to make permanent routes more transparent will help to broaden participation. But should we consider the number of repeat Permanent and DIY rides when thinking about who rides Audax?

[Deano]

DIYs are less popular in the North West, where 8 riders did 49 of them.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2017/listevent/?Ride=JDDIY02

Julian doesn't offer validation by GPS, which will reduce the number of riders on his list. GPSers from the NW will just use another organiser.

[Phil W]

There's a split between those doing a regular circuit which is a permanent,
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2018/listevent/?Ride=NA04

and those permanents which don't get repeated.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2018/listevent/?Ride=NWK07

Rides up to 200km with 10 participations or more tend to have repeats. It's not a problem, except that rising validation fees might affect the number of repeats. It also tends to skew the average age of participants when multi-riders are retired. The average age of completed rides is different from the average age of riders.

The work to make permanent routes more transparent will help to broaden participation. But should we consider the number of repeat Permanent and DIY rides when thinking about who rides Audax?

Nick has about 10 perms starting in and around Cambridge, plus there are more not far away.  So where you don't get many repeats of a perm you would have to look at all perms within a reasonable distance. More suitable perms = reduced repeats.

I can certainly see a lot more perms have controls near me, than just the local organiser ones. Plus I can see that what look like sparse areas for perms in fact are not, if you are allowed to start at control nearest you. So yes I hope we do see an increase in uptake once riders can see which perms pass right by them.

[Tull924]

I think DIYs and Perms are perfect for those on the RTTY treadmill or those working shifts. I have rode some perms but none are showing in my results so either they were prior to me becoming a member or I didn't bother getting them validated.

The beauty with perms are that they are usually well thought out routes so you know you're on for a good ride. I love the freedom and flexibility of DIY (especially by GPS, mandatory route) that allows me to take a day off mid week, and plot a route often based around collecting British Cycling Quest locations. I usually end up with at least one "comedy section" (a road or path in the loosest sense of the definition that Ride With GPS seems to think is an appropriate route for taking a road bike along)

Being able to ride perms by gps would be a step forward in my opinion (I know you could just plot an existing perm and submit it as a diy by gps but to me it doesn't seem right to essentially take someone else's work and then pay someone else to validate it so the original route planner doesn't get anything) but this would require perm organisers to be able to validate by gps

[Wycombewheeler]

I did meridian hills by GPS. So perms by GPS is happening. Just need to ask the perm organiser.

[Whitedown Man]

I work alternate weekends so DIYs help keep me in the AUK family, giving me the opportunity to ride mid-week when my “weekend days” are Mon & Tue or Fri & Mon.

The other huge plus point of DIYs is the ability to start and finish at your front door.

[telstarbox]

Or to finish at a distant point (like a train station) which means you can cover more ground without needing to return to base.

[Greenbank]

At the moment I'm most likely to do a variant of the above, combining it with Veloviewer tile bagging and ending up somewhere where I can get a train back home.

Rides like this: https://www.strava.com/activities/1676291042

(No, I didn't DIYxGPS this one, it was only 80km.)

Being able to ride perms by gps would be a step forward in my opinion (I know you could just plot an existing perm and submit it as a diy by gps but to me it doesn't seem right to essentially take someone else's work and then pay someone else to validate it so the original route planner doesn't get anything) but this would require perm organisers to be able to validate by gps

If I wanted to do a Perm by GPS and the organiser didn't offer it I've have no problem entering the perm and then using that info to submit a DIYxGPS entry. Perm organiser gets their reward and I get my ride. I wouldn't mind having to pay twice for it. If the perm organiser wants recognition (i.e. a validated entry) then they know what they have to do.

A future all-singing all-dancing AUK system that validates DIYxGPS rides would, ideally, be able to recognise sections or whole rides that are similar to perms/calendar rides and annotate the results as such, i.e.
  DIY 200 (formed of 50% of The Argle Bargle 200km calendar event and 40% of Bob's High Roads 200km Permanent).

[hillbilly]

All the point chasers seem to live in Bristol at the moment... 

If I lived in Bristol I'd also spend a most of my cycling elsewhere

[djrikki]

Looking at the rider tables, those with the most points do a lot of permanents and DIYs and yes seem to be centred around the Bristol area of the York.

My area (Lincolnshire) is completely devoid of any permanent rides so I am going to have to create my own in Strava route builder. (and send the gpx to presumably the north east organiser?).

The only thing stopping me/inhibiting/slowing me down is the incredibly convoluted and not easy to follow instructions on how to best go about creating a suitable and crucially valid route. I wish they were re-written to be more concise and stuck all in one place/one page.

Like foreinstance, DIY by GPS, I still don't know that the difference is between 'Advisory Route' and 'Mandatory Route', the mandatory page starts by explaining what that is, but the advisory page begins with no explanation whatsoever!

I've found the control point calculator on audax, but specifying control times against control points looks like a time sink.

Any useful advice from someone with prior experience would be helpful.

[Ajax Bay]

My area (Lincolnshire) is completely devoid of any permanent rides so I am going to have to create my own in Strava route builder. (and send the gpx to presumably the north east organiser?).

Don't think this is the case. See @Phil W's map.

Controls - and therefore possible start points.
Spalding   52.7858, -0.1529
Colsterworth   52.806568,-0.619047
Keightley   52.849082,0.010024
Holt   52.905438,1.092832
Burnham Deepdale   52.965817,0.683615
Boston   52.9783814,-0.0389212
Sleaford   52.998419,-0.409453
Coleby   53.134459,-0.5402847
Skegness   53.143751,0.342896
Woodhall Spa   53.151939,-0.218044
Waddington   53.166190, -0.542070
Horncastle   53.207948,-0.1168437
Lincoln   53.2182907,-0.5905157
Wragby   53.287219,-0.3053647
Caenby Corner   53.39298,-0.547641
Gainsborough   53.396874,-0.773958
East Butterwick   53.545408,-0.73637
Kilnsea   53.620727,0.130235
Barton-Upon-Humber   53.685807,-0.439522

(NB May not all be in Lincolnshire. Defined by Spalding in the south, Barton in the north, Gainsborough in the west and the North Sea (Skegness!).

[vorsprung]

A few years ago some proportion of the  200km+ rides I did that weren't calendar events I didn't bother registering as DIY

It's easier to do now with GPS DIY

Maybe this is a small part of it, long rides can all be DIYs now with a minimal amount of faff

[Bairdy]

All the point chasers seem to live in Bristol at the moment... 

If I lived in Bristol I'd also spend a most of my cycling elsewhere

Maybe we ride a lot of DIY's because the Mendips, Somerset Levels, Exmoor, South Coast, New Forest, Brecon Beacons, Forest of Dean and Cotswolds are reachable within 200 or 300km rides from Bristol.

[frankly frankie]

Controls - and therefore possible start points.

That's an assumption.

[bhoot]

Or to finish at a distant point (like a train station) which means you can cover more ground without needing to return to base.

Definitely this if you are a Londoner - cycle out early in the morning when the motor traffic is tolerably low, return most of the way through the outer London area by train in the afternoon/evening, and manage to reach interesting places like the seaside!

[Exit Stage Left]

A number of permanents in Northern England are essentially the sort of route you'd see in a day of the Tour of Britain. They tend to be ridden multiple times by riders training for their season, and seeking to assess their condition.

They're also genuinely nice rides, which change with the seasons. Some aren't run as calendar events any more, so their appeal stays local. The Southport ones aren't attractive to outsiders, but the flat sections to Preston cover a lot of the local TT course, which is useful training, and soon passes at between 20 and 25 mph.