Solar power

[telstarbox]

Solar households expected to give away power to energy firms

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/18/solar-power-energy-firms-government?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Sounds bad on the face of it, but people in the comments have said that it makes sense because we'll soon have too much solar generation in summer - who is right?

[Mrs Pingu]

How csn we have too much solar generation if we want to get CO2 emissions down as low as possible?
Who's going to want to fork out for solar panels if they never pay for themselves?

[fuaran]

Just have to use as much of the power yourself as you can. Makes it more worthwhile to store it, for when you need it later. ie batteries or a thermal store.

Also if you're not getting paid, you don't need to use an MCS approved installer. You could do a cheaper DIY job.

[pcolbeck]

How csn we have too much solar generation if we want to get CO2 emissions down as low as possible?
Who's going to want to fork out for solar panels if they never pay for themselves?

Now there's your mistake right there. The government gave us a clue when it said that payments "didn't fit with their industrial strategy". What they meant was ensuring rich energy company shareholders get pots and pots of money is their priority not reducing CO2 emissions.

[rob]

How csn we have too much solar generation if we want to get CO2 emissions down as low as possible?
Who's going to want to fork out for solar panels if they never pay for themselves?

Now there's your mistake right there. The government gave us a clue when it said that payments "didn't fit with their industrial strategy". What they meant was ensuring rich energy company shareholders get pots and pots of money is their priority not reducing CO2 emissions.

Not much new-build solar going on since ROC and FiT subsidies were dropped.   As the price of PVs have come down, though, we have started to see some subsidy free projects getting to construction.   

Most of the energy companies are having a shoddy time of it at the moment.

[nicknack]

Most of the energy companies are having a shoddy time of it at the moment.

I wonder if that results in their bosses suffering pay cuts?

[Quisling]

Not paying you for export encourages several alternatives.
1. size your PV array so it won't export - not terrible practical as most homes have a baseload unoccupied daytime requirement of a fridge / freezer and a few bits on standby.
2. Install batteries - costs are dropping fast to maximise onsite usage.
3. Install smart devices to aid self-consumption, e.g. products from these people https://myenergi.uk/

Excess summer generation can be a problem - especially on sunny, windy days when the turbines are generating full pelt too.  This is particularly true at a local level where excess generation is connected to the local Distribution Network Operating wires rather than directly into the national transmission system.  However, this is readily surmountable with a combination of improved networks, local storage, suitable market price signals and smart time of use consumption.  Other markets with higher levels of renewables deployment manage ok.

I don't buy the argument that all of this adds cost to consumer bills.  The fossil fuel generators haven't been adequately charged for their emissions for decades.  The "social" cost of carbon (as opposed to the market cost) is estimated at around $200/tonne once you factor in air quality issues (25-40000 excess UK deaths per year attributed to pollution, not all from power generation obviously).  Once you factor that cost into conventional generation, resolving renewables issues seems pretty good value.  But ultimately the logical course of action is improved energy efficiency and avoided energy demand above all else.

[Quisling]

Most of the energy companies are having a shoddy time of it at the moment.

I wonder if that results in their bosses suffering pay cuts?

For the 8 suppliers that have gone bust so far this year that's probably true.  It also shows it's not that easy to be a successful small supplier.  The government's energy price cap at a time of rising wholesale prices has shafted some suppliers who don't have the capital to forward buy wholesale volume but have lots of customers locked into annual or multi-year fixed price deals at lower prices.

[DuncanM]

Batteries are still expensive - if a 4kW array would pay for itself in ~8 years under the FIT regime from last year, the payback time for battery storage was closer to 15. Unless you are a large consumer of electricity (eg run electric cars) then this makes solar PV essentially un-viable from an economic perspective. I assume it will also end the business model of the companies who used to put panels on your roof and take the FIT money, with you getting the electricity generated as and when.

Clearly this is because the country doesn't have any money to spend on useful stuff.  I assume it's all going on ****** (PAOBI content).

[rob]

Most of the energy companies are having a shoddy time of it at the moment.

I wonder if that results in their bosses suffering pay cuts?

For the 8 suppliers that have gone bust so far this year that's probably true.  It also shows it's not that easy to be a successful small supplier.  The government's energy price cap at a time of rising wholesale prices has shafted some suppliers who don't have the capital to forward buy wholesale volume but have lots of customers locked into annual or multi-year fixed price deals at lower prices.

I'd suspect another couple of suppliers will exit before the Winter is out.   Take a look at Centrica's share price - it has dumped this year.   Those bosses on share price related packages or with payment in equity/options will have suffered.

2 of the largest suppliers in the UK have just called off their proposed merger citing the costs or maintaining an organisation that can meet Ofgem's incoming requirements.   

[fuaran]

With the current rates for the Renewable Heat Incentive, worth considering solar thermal as well. Probably cheaper to buy and install in the first place.