Grammar that makes you cringe

[Salvatore]

Presumably you object to early 20th century theatre posters?

Of course not, Salvatore - and it's interesting to find where it arose - but it doesn't seem to have persisted in common usage since 1912.

From a quick scan of the BNA, it was in use in theatres (as on the poster) from the early 1890s until the practice died out in the 1960s. But by that time the phrase was well established and was used in other contexts, for instance for people who went into pubs as soon as the doors opened. It seems to have been especially common in the midlands.

Coventry Evening Telegraph - Tuesday 22 August 1978

A clued-up retailer would be mad if he didn't listen to the weather forecast all day. "if it sets In to rain," one wholesaler told me, "we'll have retailers arriving early doors to buy up more shiny wellies. And if he's got any sense, he'll have them displayed outside the shop."

and Staffordshire Sentinel - Saturday 30 September 1989

By an amazing coincidence, the subject of violins came up early doors in The Winghouse. Richard, one of the younger regulars, said he had come across his old school fiddle while tidying up the loft.

But I don't have to include it in my own vocabulary

Don't worry, I'll make sure I use it more often to make up the shortfall.

[Pickled Onion]

Staffordshire Sentinel - Saturday 30 September 1989

By an amazing coincidence, the subject of violins came up early doors in The Winghouse. Richard, one of the younger regulars, said he had come across his old school fiddle while tidying up the loft.

Surely that's an early Humphrey Lyttleton quote?

[jsabine]

It doesn't add any meaning but it does add style or "attitude" just as "got a dig in" takes four words to add no meaning to "criticised". Whether you like that style is another question.

It's arguable that the extra syllable of 'got a dig in' adds more meaning than the scare quotes around "attitude".

[jsabine]

Staffordshire Sentinel - Saturday 30 September 1989

By an amazing coincidence, the subject of violins came up early doors in The Winghouse. Richard, one of the younger regulars, said he had come across his old school fiddle while tidying up the loft.

Surely that's an early Humphrey Lyttleton quote?

What's Samantha got to do with it?

[Cudzoziemiec]

It doesn't add any meaning but it does add style or "attitude" just as "got a dig in" takes four words to add no meaning to "criticised". Whether you like that style is another question.

It's arguable that the extra syllable of 'got a dig in' adds more meaning than the scare quotes around "attitude".

If the quotes add anything, it should be uncertainty, not scariness.

[Nuncio]

It seems to have been especially common in the midlands.

That perhaps explains why Ron Atkinson was such a proponent.

I've just been thinking about idioms associated with football (association), but not necessarily originating with it:
Hat-trick
Over the moon
Sick as a parrot
Parking the bus
Missing a sitter
Nutmeg
Clean sheet
Handbags
Hairdryer treatment

And, I don't know if this counts, but it's good.
On a cold, wet night in Stoke

What have I missed?

Ain't language wonderful?

[Cudzoziemiec]

A game of two halves
Moving the goalposts
Over the line
The man in black
An early bath

[Nuncio]

A game of two halves
Moving the goalposts
Over the line
The man in black
An early bath

I wouldn't necessarily associate 'Man in Black' just with football. It was Glenn Campbell who was a linesman at Notts County, not Johnny Cash. Coat please.

[T42]

Early bath is pure Eddie Waring, along with "can't run baht legs".  I was never much bothered by rugby league or union, but his commentaries were worth listening to for the idiom.

[Salvatore]

It seems to have been especially common in the midlands.

That perhaps explains why Ron Atkinson was such a proponent.

<speculation>And although it was in common use in the midlands, he as a TV pundit had a national TV audience, so it became associated with football managers. </speculation>

I also found a quote from Coventry-born Bobby Gould football manager in the Kingston Informer - Friday 19 August 1988

Things have certainly changed since the days when his blind father, Roy Gould, used to follow son Bobby's every game, using his ears and imagination, and, "early doors", said Bobby, "he would have someone commentating for him."

[Salvatore]

And, I don't know if this counts, but it's good.
On a cold, wet night in Stoke

Or as they say in Germany, on a windy night in Stoke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B8R2jp_D88

[hatler]

'Back to square one' is very much a football phrase. 'Square one' is where the goalie spends most of his time and an early guide for football commentary on the radio provided the listeners with a map (in the Radio Times I presume) showing a series of numbered squares on the pitch so that the commentator could inform the listeners more easily as to where the ball was.

[Cudzoziemiec]

'Back to square one' is very much a football phrase. 'Square one' is where the goalie spends most of his time and an early guide for football commentary on the radio provided the listeners with a map (in the Radio Times I presume) showing a series of numbered squares on the pitch so that the commentator could inform the listeners more easily as to where the ball was.

I did not know that. Thank you for the information. 

[Kim]

I always thought that one came from Snakes and Ladders.  Both of which have the potential for making football more interesting.

[Nuncio]

I'd heard the footballing etymology, but it doesn't sound right to me. Wouldn't the goalkeeper be more likely to be in square 2? Snakes and ladders (or hopscotch) sound more plausible. ngram is no help because it only really started to (erm..) kick off in the late 1950s.  Any old newspaper references that can help, Salvatore?

[hatler]

Guardian has a bit on it which throws the lie to the story - apologies for the fake news.


https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1811,00.html

[Cudzoziemiec]

I can imagine you might have a plan where each half of the pitch was divided into, say, 12 squares, with the goal as number one, then 2 and 3 being either side of the goal, 4, 5 and 6 in the next row, and so on. Thus approximately reflecting conventional shirt numbering.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Guardian has a bit on it which throws the lie to the story - apologies for the fake news.


https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1811,00.html

Pah! Well it was a nice story while it lasted.

[T42]

I always thought that one came from Snakes and Ladders.  Both of which have the potential for making football more interesting.

+1

I reckon that football commentators have such large and uncritical audiences that any old crap they come out with more than once will eventually be attributed to them, even if it can be traced back to Æthelred the Unready.

[Mr Larrington]

Æthelred the Unready is widely* acknowledged as the originator of the phrase “That was offside by a fucking mile, ref!”.

* Lie

[Nuncio]

I did hear that he was a prolific user of Anglo Saxon language.

[FifeingEejit]

See also “bring” for “take”, and “brought” for “taken”.

Several decades ago I heard a fellow USAnian, born and raised in the northeastern part of the land, but by then a resident of the southeast for many years, state that he had "carried my pickup truck over to my brother-in-law".  "Carry" in this context meaning "take".

The Appalachian region of USAnia was originally settled by persons of Scots and Irish descent, and it is said that some of their peculiarities of dialect are remnants of the language of the 1700s.

Weel wi de caw "take away" a carry oot

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[Kim]

Weel wi de caw "take away" a carry oot

This was famously misheard by my cousin when he was small, and takeaway was henceforth known as "a curry out" by that side of the family.

[Cudzoziemiec]

That's almost as good as "mistake agent".

[mllePB]

Local Co-op is selling a bakery product called Pains au chocolate