What new tyres would you like to see?

[KidJambo]

Isn't it about time you

Seems a bit harsh, inc. Count how many representatives from tyre firms we get on here. Lets see . . . . um, one.

Are you saying that I'm unique? LMAO

[Greenbank]

who is to say we haven't got the ability to make this tyre but, as I've said before, we would sell you a pair and never see you again and we would be outta business - and me out of a job - before the year was out and I have a lifestyle to maintain so we'll continue to make excellent tyres that actually wear out and need replacing periodically to keep me happy!

And there you have the problems with today's society encapsulated. All me and no consideration of the greater good.

You are of course correct and I am currently hanging my head in shame. An ever-lasting tyre would keep every consumer happy and make a massive differnce to the enviroment and economy too....I'm writing a letter to our central management team as we speak....whilst smashing my head against the desk at the same time! :s

It's the old 'Mutually Assured Destruction' problem. You could release the tyre and go out of business, or one of your competitors could and you'd still go out of business but without the extra cash of selling that new magic tyre to everyone yourself.

Step away from the big red button.

The Man In The White Suit is a 1951 film about a very similar problem.

[KidJambo]

who is to say we haven't got the ability to make this tyre but, as I've said before, we would sell you a pair and never see you again and we would be outta business - and me out of a job - before the year was out and I have a lifestyle to maintain so we'll continue to make excellent tyres that actually wear out and need replacing periodically to keep me happy!

And there you have the problems with today's society encapsulated. All me and no consideration of the greater good.

You are of course correct and I am currently hanging my head in shame. An ever-lasting tyre would keep every consumer happy and make a massive differnce to the enviroment and economy too....I'm writing a letter to our central management team as we speak....whilst smashing my head against the desk at the same time! :s

It's the old 'Mutually Assured Destruction' problem. You could release the tyre and go out of business, or one of your competitors could and you'd still go out of business but without the extra cash of selling that new magic tyre to everyone yourself.

Step away from the big red button.

The Man In The White Suit is a 1951 film about a very similar problem.

Ah, but you are forgetting that there are global tyre manufacturers forums (bit like this only in a underground bunker away from prying eyes) where I am sure they discuss this kinda thing and have a gentleman's agreement that nobody will launch the every-lasting tyre! ...probably

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I agree with having some more competition for the Pasela as well.  Sidewalls should be stronger, but only slightly because I don't want much less flexibility (increased rolling resistance).  The sidewalls should be black, too!

I was with you all the way until you wanted black sidewalls.  Every other damn tyre on the market is black or kiddy kolours, some of us want proper-looking tyres.

[KidJambo]

I agree with having some more competition for the Pasela as well.  Sidewalls should be stronger, but only slightly because I don't want much less flexibility (increased rolling resistance).  The sidewalls should be black, too!

I was with you all the way until you wanted black sidewalls.  Every other damn tyre on the market is black or kiddy kolours, some of us want proper-looking tyres.

I think you'll be pleased to hear that alot of the new stuff already in the pipeline for 2011+ is with retro brown sidewalls!

[Really Ancien]

Free ones, coming by courier, direct from the manufacturer. They'd get a warm welcome.

Damon.

[David Martin]

Got back from the club run today to discover that my back tyre (pro3 grip) is down to the canvas. The canvas being black I hadn't notived without a detailed inspection through the skog on it.

That's one thing that would be handy - a thin layer of different coloured rubber between the tread and the canvas, just to act as a more obvious "buy a new tyre now" indicator.

If it's all the same colour there isn't any easy way of checking remaining tread life without taking the tyre off, and it's a bit of a nuisance if your front tyre goes fluffy half way through a long ride.

Have you never noticed the small Bibendum's around the tyre at regular intervals?

Can't say I have - on a pro3 grip?

If they are on the side then they are no use - it is on teh crown where they have worn through.

I have an old pro race to swap in for now.

[Biggsy]

I was with you all the way until you wanted black sidewalls.  Every other damn tyre on the market is black or kiddy kolours, some of us want proper-looking tyres.

"Proper-looking" tyres become crappy-looking after they've been used a bit and the sidewalls are stained with dirt and rim sludge.  It doesn't clean off without chemicals and I don't want to have to keep cleaning it anyway .  This stuff doesn't show up on black, so your tyres (and therefore whole bike) looks cleaner.

I won't be buying tyres without black sidewalls unless there's no good alternative.

[Biggsy]

What's the benefit of tubeless (never used them myself so I'm in complete ignorance) ?

No pinch-flats, so you can use low pressure.  An advantage for MTBing.

Is it just as easy to fix a puncture as just throwing in a new tube is with ordinary tyres ?

I think you can fit an ordinary tube if sealant doesn't work or whatever.

[mattc]

Free ones, coming by courier, direct from the manufacturer. They'd get a warm welcome.

Damon.

People would moan about the courier not using the bell, depot too far away, won't redeliver at specific times ...

[Andrij]

Free ones, coming by courier, direct from the manufacturer. They'd get a warm welcome.

Damon.

People would moan about the courier not using the bell, depot too far away, won't redeliver at specific times ...

So don't use Sh!ttyL!nk.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I won't be buying tyres without black sidewalls unless there's no good alternative.

Good for you, I'll stick with my choice.

[inc]

What's the benefit of tubeless (never used them myself so I'm in complete ignorance) ?

Is it just as easy to fix a puncture as just throwing in a new tube is with ordinary tyres ?

Better ride and with a light sealant like Stan's you get instant puncture repair, have a look here, there are road tyres at the end of the video. NoTubes.com - Movies. You can just fit a tube if needed. Michelin developed the technology with Mavic but choose not to release a model onto the market. Hutchison have a road version but the tyres are not so good. I have been using converted ordinary mtb tyres and rims   off road for over two years without a puncture. Before the conversion I had two punctures a ride sometimes with the dog thorns in the grass. Because of the much higher pressures in road tyres retaining the tyres on the rims is the challenge but Campag, shimano, Mavic and others now have tubeless rims but Michelin say there is no demand.

[KidJambo]

What's the benefit of tubeless (never used them myself so I'm in complete ignorance) ?

Is it just as easy to fix a puncture as just throwing in a new tube is with ordinary tyres ?

Better ride and with a light sealant like Stan's you get instant puncture repair, have a look here, there are road tyres at the end of the video. NoTubes.com - Movies. You can just fit a tube if needed. Michelin developed the technology with Mavic but choose not to release a model onto the market. Hutchison have a road version but the tyres are not so good. I have been using converted ordinary mtb tyres and rims   off road for over two years without a puncture. Before the conversion I had two punctures a ride sometimes with the dog thorns in the grass. Because of the much higher pressures in road tyres retaining the tyres on the rims is the challenge but Campag, shimano, Mavic and others now have tubeless rims but Michelin say there is no demand.

Thats actually accurate - we were the first manufacturer to develop a tubeless road tyre in conjunction with Mavic - but chose not to commercialise it at the time and then Hutchinson stole our thunder and got the first tyre out into the market...although you are right in saying that they are not a good tyre and do not really sell even in France where their brand is strongest.

I think the reason we have not been interested until now is the cost of switching to tubless rims but now the manufacturers appear to dual-mark their rims maybe it will be more accessible for riders and demand will increase!

[David Martin]

In terms of performance the new Pro Optimum is kinda between the two although only available in 25C at present

** Googles **

Look very interesting. How do they perform in the cold and wet compared to the Grip (there is still snow and ice around up here)?

..d

 They aren't as soft as the Pro3 Grip so probably not as grippy in the cold/wet but more durable

I may well be tempted to give them a whirl. The Grip were/are fantastic tyres to ride but my wallet is kind of complaining at the durability. Not sure whether that is the effect of road riding or the intermittent use on the rollers (not a turbo).

£70 for a pair of optimum seems quite pricey - at the top end of my limit (I'd normally be paying 25-30 per tyre for Pro3). However, if they last >20% longer  with reasonably good grip (a concept which the Pro series redefined) then they will be worth it

..d

[KidJambo]

In terms of performance the new Pro Optimum is kinda between the two although only available in 25C at present

** Googles **

Look very interesting. How do they perform in the cold and wet compared to the Grip (there is still snow and ice around up here)?

..d

 They aren't as soft as the Pro3 Grip so probably not as grippy in the cold/wet but more durable

I may well be tempted to give them a whirl. The Grip were/are fantastic tyres to ride but my wallet is kind of complaining at the durability. Not sure whether that is the effect of road riding or the intermittent use on the rollers (not a turbo).

£70 for a pair of optimum seems quite pricey - at the top end of my limit (I'd normally be paying 25-30 per tyre for Pro3). However, if they last >20% longer  with reasonably good grip (a concept which the Pro series redefined) then they will be worth it

..d

I'll be 100% straight with you here - I don't have an awful lot of performance feedback on them as yet - would hate for you to "blow your wad" on these and not have them live up to expectations. They were designed in conjunction with Giant as a spotive tyre to sit between the Pro and Krylion ranges but have not ridden them myself as yet to fully ascertain how the differing compounds front/rear work in harmony.

I have said it before and I'll say it again.....for me, the best tyre we make is the Krylion Carbon; I struggle to get to the limit of the grip and the durability and puncture resilience is excellent given the weight and rolling resistance.

[David Martin]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.....for me, the best tyre we make is the Krylion Carbon; I struggle to get to the limit of the grip and the durability and puncture resilience is excellent given the weight and rolling resistance.

OK, I'll look at those. The press blurb on the optimum makes it look like the front is just a slightly wider (25 v 23) Pro3 Grip, the rear is more durable.  I'll pick up a Kyrillion and see what it is like.

..d

[KidJambo]

OK, I'll look at those. The press blurb on the optimum makes it look like the front is just a slightly wider (25 v 23) Pro3 Grip, the rear is more durable.  I'll pick up a Kyrillion and see what it is like.

The internal communication I have is very similar - front is akin to a Grip and the rear is more durable but unsure (and this is me being brutally honest here...totally removed my corporate cap for once!) how much of it is a marketing gimic and so the tyres work out as a pair and how much is a genuine technological advancement of a pair designed as separate front/rear fitments for each to fully meet the demands of the position of fitment!

You wont go far wrong with the Krylion Carbons - plenty been written on here about them in the past - and they are substantially cheaper too!

[andrew_s]

What's the benefit of tubeless (never used them myself so I'm in complete ignorance) ?

No pinch-flats, so you can use low pressure.  An advantage for MTBing.

Is it just as easy to fix a puncture as just throwing in a new tube is with ordinary tyres ?

I think you can fit an ordinary tube if sealant doesn't work or whatever.

If you don't fit a new tube, you've got the interesting problem of trying to get a seal with a mini-pump. You can use CO2 - one cartridge to get the tyre seated, and one to get the pressure, or CO2 to seat and a pump to top up.

If you do fit a tube, why not use an ordinary tyre?
You can use a sealant in those if you want.

So you end up with more complicated puncture repair, in return for which you can run at low pressures that would otherwise put you at risk of pinch flats. Nobody uses pressures that low on the road (deliberately), so tubeless have no advantages.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Plus what do you do about tyre cuts?

Most of my tyres end up with dozens of tiny cuts, many of which just make it through the tyre (but not the tube). With tubeless, these would leak. Maybe the slime would seal the cut, but I'd still have to stop and top up the pressure etc.

Nope, don't see any need for tubeless on the road.

[KidJambo]

Plus what do you do about tyre cuts?

Most of my tyres end up with dozens of tiny cuts, many of which just make it through the tyre (but not the tube). With tubeless, these would leak. Maybe the slime would seal the cut, but I'd still have to stop and top up the pressure etc.

Nope, don't see any need for tubeless on the road.

The one thing I should point out too about tubeless is that if you get a hole then the sealant is designed to fill it which it does effectively in most cases....butit also means the internal construction of the tyre is exposed to whatever chemicals etc are in the sealant and we have not fully tested what effect this may have. On products where we do make tubeless options - and I'm not just talking cycle tyres here but also car, truck, motorcycle etc - a sealant is seen almost as a temporary solution and a proper mushroom repair should be undertaken at the earliest opportunity!

[inc]

Most of my tyres end up with dozens of tiny cuts, many of which just make it through the tyre (but not the tube). With tubeless, these would leak. Maybe the slime would seal the cut, but I'd still have to stop and top up the pressure etc.

Nope, don't see any need for tubeless on the road.

Have you looked at the video link I posted, it is well worth a look. In my experience most punctures are with horns or small bits of flint, Stan's will seal both these without you even  noticing or pressure loss. I have arrived back from a couple of hours off road and then noticed a few tiny white specks where the sealant has worked. The fluid is like milk in colour and viscosity it is nothing like slime and there is only 20ml per tyre. It is not publicised but Mavic use it while testing their road  tubeless setup and just about every MBT team use it.

[mattc]

In my experience most punctures are with horns

Gnarly !

[nmcgann]

.....
You wont go far wrong with the Krylion Carbons - plenty been written on here about them in the past - and they are substantially cheaper too!

Yup, best compromise tyre around IMO. They also work really well as a turbo tyre after they have been worn out on the road 

Can't see the point of tubeless myself for non-pro road use. It's hard enough fixing a p*ncture in a normal tubed tyre when I'm soaked and freezing cold cycling in the back of beyond, but going to something that has to have a proper seal between tyre and rim to inflate - I dont think so 

[Greenbank]

Can't see the point of tubeless myself for non-pro road use. It's hard enough fixing a p*ncture in a normal tubed tyre when I'm soaked and freezing cold cycling in the back of beyond, but going to something that has to have a proper seal between tyre and rim to inflate - I dont think so 

Do you really mean tubeless or are you talking about tubs?