Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 12 April, 2021, 11:56:55 pm
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What does AUK say on the subject of repeating roads? IIRC you can't have a 100km loop and repeat it, but can you have a 100km out and back, where it just happens the two ends are 1km apart, kinda like doing the loop clockwise, then anti clockwise?
Am trying to work out if I can fit a 200km DIY into the island of Texel...
J
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The same road in opposite directions doesn’t count as a repeat. You can loop back to the start point, turn around and ride the same roads back.
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Case in point: the Invicta Grimpeur 100 (https://audax.uk/event-details?eventId=7568) is a 50km loop which you ride clockwise then anti-clockwise (or anti-clockwise then clockwise every other year).
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I was under the impression you could also do a figure of eight or a clover leaf?
That would have you repeating the same road, but not as a 'lap'
Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk
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ACP advice is to avoid figure-8s because they encourage weaker riders to cut it short.
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Back when audax was suspended around May last year I tried a figure of 8 from home. The reasoning being I could refuel and top up the water bottles after the first 100km loop then go out on the second. I got back after the first loop and felt fine. After some beans on toast and tea. I got a dose of CBA and instead spent the afternoon sitting in garden with a book. Partly inertia once back home, and also lack of audax points or recording at the time. Even now points / audax are back I’m unlikely to map an audax that involves a couple of loops from home. I’ve decided outside of audaxes or tours my just right longest distance sits at around 4-6 hours of cycling.
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I was under the impression you could also do a figure of eight or a clover leaf?
That would have you repeating the same road, but not as a 'lap'
You’re meant to keep repeats to the minimum practical if you do that
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I thought you could repeat roads on a DIY - but only once and in the opposite direction.
Is this right ? I can't remember where I got that from tbh ...
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ACP advice is to avoid figure-8s because they encourage weaker riders to cut it short.
Makes sense.
... I've been guilty of doing just that.
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I thought you could repeat roads on a DIY - but only once and in the opposite direction.
Is this right ?
Yes that's right.
But as Grams says, it's "significant" repeats in the same direction which are not allowed - short bits, eg for revisiting control on the way back, or for visiting a central base, are ok.
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Apart from short stretches (as @TonyH describes above) designing a DIY route which revisits the same roads riding in the same direction implies lack of imagination and/or laziness at the planning stage. And fails the 'boldness' test too.
Texel is, I guess, a special case (so extra 'boldness points'!) I reckon (have had a little play on RwGPS) you could design a 200 on the island (mandatory route/GPS validated).
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
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(https://i.ibb.co/HDj5Dbs/jackie-wright-3860663.jpg)
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
Perhaps there should be a rule that you can only go over the topic once (in each direction)......
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
Especially if people add comments that are utterly irrelevant and in no way helpful to the original question.
J
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
Especially if people add comments that are utterly irrelevant and in no way helpful to the original question.
J
Me too
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
Perhaps there should be a rule that you can only go over the topic once (in each direction)......
:thumbsup:
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
Especially if people add comments that are utterly irrelevant and in no way helpful to the original question.
J
Yes we’ll need to watch out for that.
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I think that basic answer to end all answers is that you can do any section of road in both directions - but you may do either or both directions only once.
The only alternative to this interpretation is if I'm wrong.
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There is a very simple answer to that but I don't know what it is.
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How on earth do you expect to start an argument with a post like that ? Get a grip!
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This is a thread that could do with one answer, which has already been provided, but no doubt will go on for several pages... ::-)
Perhaps there should be a rule that you can only go over the topic once (in each direction)......
Do we have to take the shortest route?
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No, but if you do you may not collect £200.
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Wonder if anyone has done a DIY based on Monopoly roads ...
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Wonder if anyone has done a DIY based on Monopoly roads ...
It would be hard to make such a ride add up to 200km. Especially if you're not allowed to repeat roads.
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It would be hard to make such a ride add up to 200km. Especially if you're not allowed to repeat roads.
Looks like you can get it over with in 15.9 km (https://www.bikemap.net/en/r/916460/#11.03/51.5164/-0.1176) and then go and ride somewhere nice.
(after another 30 km slogging through diesel fug to get out)
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Wonder if anyone has done a DIY based on Monopoly roads ...
It would be hard to make such a ride add up to 200km. Especially if you're not allowed to repeat roads.
You’d be able to include extra roads as long as you get the core ones in.
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"Go to jail" might make it difficult to get round in the time limit. Unless you have a get out of jail free card.
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The Thread Police will get you, even if the Monopoly police station doesnt
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AudaxUK Regulation 7.1.2
https://audax.uk/media/2259/regs_all_events_2020.pdf
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You can have an out and back route. You can also have events that have a figure of 8, although I believe the Faccombe 100 was frowned upon because it consisted of elaborate twists and turns to keep it in an audaciously hilly part of the Wiltshire-Berkshire-Hampshire border (2250m ascent in 100km of southern softy territory) meant it never went more than about 12km from the start/finish point.
I had a go, winding down from a long day at work and you could sort of squeeze something like this in (very rough and ready and without any checking to see if the roads/cycle paths are viable) https://ridewithgps.com/routes/35695676 (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/35695676). I've been doing rides with this sort of pattern through lockdown and now UK rules are easing want to do anything but a route like this :facepalm:
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Isle of Wight 200 no repeats:
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/35695834
If I can make a 300 then a 600 could be done using the each direction rule.
(Wight is smaller than Texel but has far more people and roads)
(and hills!)
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When I altered a figure of 8 route to avoid repeating a road and added 20k to the distance my friendly local DIY organizer sent an e-mail back saying something along the lines of "the repeating roads stuff is internet bullshit, it's doing laps that's not allowed"
So from that I took:
Repeat roads are ok, provided it's not laps, exactly when a repeat road becomes a lap is down to interpretation of the person who will be validating the DIY or approving the route for an event, therefore if in doubt, ask them.
AUK regs, open to interpretation since 2000*.
* Apparently
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It's ancient history but AUK (and ACP too) used to sanction events consisting of multiple repeats of a short ultra-hilly circuit. There was one in Yorkshire with 5 laps, something similar in Derbyshire, and one in Surrey where the circuit was a bit shorter and so required 7 laps.
I think that basic answer to end all answers is that you can do any section of road in both directions - but you may do either or both directions only once.
The case that's usually cited that breaks that convention is the road to Dolgellau YH, used out-and-back twice each on the Welsh 600.
It's all down to muddled thinking as to "what is audax for?" - apparently it's not all about doing the distance, there is also the element of touring and discovery ('boldness') - but in that case I thinkA to B events (such as Paris-Roubaix) should carry more kudos than mere A to A circuits or even A-B-A out-and-backs such as PBP. One of the earliest recorded such events was Paris-Harrogate, 800km, in 1978, with over 100 entries.
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When I altered a figure of 8 route to avoid repeating a road and added 20k to the distance my friendly local DIY organizer sent an e-mail back saying something along the lines of "the repeating roads stuff is internet bullshit, it's doing laps that's not allowed"
I thought it was in one of the various versions of the regulations and/or rider/organiser handbooks, but a quick squiz doesn't find it.
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Seems to be 7.1.2, linked by Ajax Bay, above.
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The regulation 7.1.2 linked upthread shows that it is an advice, rather than a hard Regulation, and is discretionary - "would not normally be approved".
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I suppose the Mersey 24 is an example of an event that breaks the rules. Kind of.
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Except that the M24 isn't an AUK event, it's an event for which you can claim AUK points ...
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Wonder if anyone has done a DIY based on Monopoly roads ...
Kristof Allegaert from Belgium has done a Monopoly-ride in 2015. He started at his home town Kortrijk and did 22 towns according the Belgian version of Monopoly. Around 850K in 34 hrs. Not really audax though.
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The regulation 7.1.2 linked upthread shows that it is an advice, rather than a hard Regulation, and is discretionary - "would not normally be approved".
It also clearly states same circuit, not same section of road. So 50km loops where the first 5km is common would be absolutely fine. But 50km loops which share 45km, but have a small deviation somewhere would fall under "don't take the piss"
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Except that the M24 isn't an AUK event, it's an event for which you can claim AUK points ...
Well, yes - that's why I said 'kind of'. But it still serves to indicate that, as FF says, it's not a hard and fast rule.
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Seems to be 7.1.2, linked by Ajax Bay, above.
That’s about loops. I meant the bit about minimising/avoiding repeats. Sure I’ve read it somewhere semi-official.
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Except that the M24 isn't an AUK event, it's an event for which you can claim AUK points ...
Well, yes - that's why I said 'kind of'. But it still serves to indicate that, as FF says, it's not a hard and fast rule.
The MR24 is hard and fast, though ;)
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(Not necessarily fast.)
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That’s about loops. I meant the bit about minimising/avoiding repeats. Sure I’ve read it somewhere semi-official.
The Organiser's Handbook (http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/events/Orgs_Handbook_2017.pdf) states "Routes may NOT include multiple passes over the same circuit (i.e. repeated loops)."
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I think that basic answer to end all answers is that you can do any section of road in both directions - but you may do either or both directions only once.
The case that's usually cited that breaks that convention is the road to Dolgellau YH, used out-and-back twice each on the Welsh 600.
We really should make them leave by the back lane to the South. (it would only add a few metres distance)
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Except that the M24 isn't an AUK event, it's an event for which you can claim AUK points ...
Is it a motorway? If you rode the M25 that’s be a single loop.
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The Organiser's Handbook (http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/events/Orgs_Handbook_2017.pdf) states "Routes may NOT include multiple passes over the same circuit (i.e. repeated loops)."
That’s still about repeating the same loop. Not about reusing roads in general.
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Especially if people add comments that are utterly irrelevant and in no way helpful to the original question
Surely this is the raison d'etre for some forums :)
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Am trying to work out if I can fit a 200km DIY into the island of Texel...
J
Short answer - Yes. https://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/iddu/20210414-01-Texel-100
YMMV on permitted method of validation thobut, best done by GPS.
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Except that the M24 isn't an AUK event, it's an event for which you can claim AUK points ...
Is it a motorway? If you rode the M25 that’s be a single loop.
Sadly the M25 is only 190 km, even including the A282. Start and finish A2 at Bexley? There aren't even signs telling you that you can't cycle on the Dartford crossing from that approach :thumbsup:
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You can have an out and back route. You can also have events that have a figure of 8, although I believe the Faccombe 100 was frowned upon because it consisted of elaborate twists and turns to keep it in an audaciously hilly part of the Wiltshire-Berkshire-Hampshire border (2250m ascent in 100km of southern softy territory) meant it never went more than about 12km from the start/finish point.
My memory is a little hazy, but I don't think the Faccombe event repeated much at all (in the same direction). Though it was indeed frowned upon, for two reasons. There was always a bit of a question mark over the actual amount of climbing / stupidity points awarded, though I never understood why as a contour count is not terribly onerous on a 100. And the event had a ridiculous number of info controls / checkpoints to preserve route integrity. That was my first audax, back in 2000