Author Topic: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use  (Read 2435 times)

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #25 on: 23 April, 2022, 10:14:17 am »
The local council tried introducing massively increased parking permit fees, rate determined by pollutivity of the vehicle concerned.

It was howled down with complainants citing any one or all of the following reasons : -

What's the point in taxing stationary vehicles ?
It's not fair that if you have a big house with room to park your Wank Tank on the drive you pay nothing at all.
It's not fair that the charges only apply to those who already live in a Controlled Parking Zone.
(The undercurrent to that last point is that the CPZs are mostly in the Tory voting side of the borough and it's a Labour council.)

This is tough. Our way of life is so deeply embedded in every single thing that we do, that changing it is going to cost all of us, not only in all the obvious ways, but also in ways that we probably haven't even thought of. And the cost isn't just money, but time too.

There's clearly no instant fix, so for starters we shouldn't be building new stuff that perpetuates the problem (out of town centres, estates without facilities, etc etc). That is something that could be done right now.
Rust never sleeps

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #26 on: 23 April, 2022, 02:45:00 pm »
The local council tried introducing massively increased parking permit fees, rate determined by pollutivity of the vehicle concerned.

It was howled down with complainants citing any one or all of the following reasons : -

What's the point in taxing stationary vehicles ?
It's not fair that if you have a big house with room to park your Wank Tank on the drive you pay nothing at all.
It's not fair that the charges only apply to those who already live in a Controlled Parking Zone.
(The undercurrent to that last point is that the CPZs are mostly in the Tory voting side of the borough and it's a Labour council.)

This is tough. Our way of life is so deeply embedded in every single thing that we do, that changing it is going to cost all of us, not only in all the obvious ways, but also in ways that we probably haven't even thought of. And the cost isn't just money, but time too.

There's clearly no instant fix, so for starters we shouldn't be building new stuff that perpetuates the problem (out of town centres, estates without facilities, etc etc). That is something that could be done right now.
And opportunities – jobs, leisure activities, contact with friends and families, education, all sorts of stuff.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #27 on: 23 April, 2022, 03:08:27 pm »
Reduce the subsidies on car ownership and use the saved money to subsidise/improve public transport and active travel, including proper provision for bikes on trains. We abandoned our car a couple of years ago but even when we had one I was advocating the above.

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #28 on: 23 April, 2022, 06:57:55 pm »
I do find it horrific that when faced with a cost of living crisis the government decides the best[1] action to help poor people is to cut car fuel duty[2]


[1] "best" as in the one that will get widespread approval and hence votes. In effect this is an issue of the population in general who will moan more about the cost of driving than the cost of heating.
[2] or rather cut fuel duty *more*, as it's been frozen so effectively cut in real terms every year for yonks.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #29 on: 25 April, 2022, 02:31:53 pm »
I do find it horrific that when faced with a cost of living crisis the government decides the best[1] action to help poor people is to cut car fuel duty[2]


[1] "best" as in the one that will get widespread approval and hence votes. In effect this is an issue of the population in general who will moan more about the cost of driving than the cost of heating.
[2] or rather cut fuel duty *more*, as it's been frozen so effectively cut in real terms every year for yonks.

But with their disastrous record in terms of running (ruining) the country, and all the corruption (moral and legal) from the top down they need all the vote winning strategies they can come up with. Certainly don't want to be doing anything about the climate emergency or anything that will really positively affect the people who are suffering the most from the cost of living crisis. Heaven forbid!

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #30 on: 25 April, 2022, 02:36:50 pm »
I do find it horrific that when faced with a cost of living crisis the government decides the best[1] action to help poor people is to cut car fuel duty[2]


[1] "best" as in the one that will get widespread approval and hence votes. In effect this is an issue of the population in general who will moan more about the cost of driving than the cost of heating.
[2] or rather cut fuel duty *more*, as it's been frozen so effectively cut in real terms every year for yonks.
Tragedy of the commons, innit?  Having a car confers so many benefits* on the end user that, well, stuff the climate and the breathability of the air.

*mechanic's corollary: "if it's got tits or wheels it'll bring you trouble in the end"
Through the angel rain, through the dust and the gasoline, through the cruelty of strangers, to the neon dream

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #31 on: 25 April, 2022, 04:31:27 pm »
Tragedy of the commons, innit?  Having a car confers so many benefits* on the end user that, well, stuff the climate and the breathability of the air.

All the benefits of car ownership accrue to the user. All the drawbacks are externalised.

The ultimate selfish object (and I say that as a regular car user).
Rust never sleeps

ian

  • why would any decent person have such thoughts?
Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #32 on: 26 April, 2022, 10:26:49 am »
I dunno, rolling past the lines of traffic on Saturday I didn't see any happy faces, mostly the spanning the gamut of bored to angry, people caught lining up to buy stuff they don't need with money they probably don't have, and paying for the doubtful privilege. All the very middle-class people I know are always complaining about driving, the parking, that they're forever having to drive their kids to the endless activities that middle-class children are obligated to do (trust me, growing up poor in the 80s was a lot easier, you'd just get turfed out of the house), etc. etc. It was much the same in the US where they've mostly removed the option (if it ever existed) to do anything but drive to places.

Yet we continue to build the kind of society that means we have to drive everywhere, when it wouldn't it preferable if we could walk somewhere, for a drink, for a meal to pick up some supplies, to be able to walk to a local activity. Not have to worry about parking when you get there, the journey, whether someone will scratch your precious, whether you'll be judged by your peers by the model of your car, the endless expense. The need for every adult member of the house to have at least one car.

Outside the bounds of smug-middle-classness, go wander through a less affluent part of any town, cars everywhere, covering every garden, every piece of grass, pavement, basically tesselated parking; driving is also a tax on the poor, excluding those who can't afford it, and penalizing those who just about can.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets, the Putin of pandas

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #33 on: 26 April, 2022, 01:48:41 pm »
The only way to discourage car use is to make car use less convenient and/or more expensive. The end.
Amen to that. Cue bleeding heart liberals [middle class of course] worrying about the rural "poor" living miles from the nearest shop or their employment.   

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #34 on: 24 May, 2022, 06:38:17 am »
Another thing that would help would a change in direction from Government and the attitude of councillors and council planning departments.  Currently for any new developments, the builders will be required to pay a Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) for which there's a published scale (£X per square metre of new building), plus S.106 monies which would go for specific things such as contributions towards new roads, cycle paths, schools etc.

Except those monies are required to be paid AFTER a certain number of houses are occupied.  So in the case of cycling infrastructure, you can end up with estates of several hundred houses being built and lived in before a cycle path gets built.  Which just means car use gets embedded right from when the residents move in, because that's the only safe form of transport.

As an example, locally in Chichester they've built a massive estate away from the city on the other side of the A27.  The initial planning application from 5 years ago stated that once 124 houses were occupied, then a shared use bridge had to be installed over the A27.  However, the developers moaned and as part of additional houses being allowed to be built, that altered so that the bridge had to be built after 300 houses were occupied.  It's supposed to be finally built very shortly, nearly 2 years after the first residents moved in.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #35 on: 24 May, 2022, 07:32:51 am »
Slough is getting a super cycleway apparently 😳. Well, secured funding for it anyway. Time will tell  :)
the slower you go the more you see

Re: IPSOS Survey - Discouraging car use
« Reply #36 on: 03 June, 2022, 05:23:18 pm »
I think ultimately driving has to be regarded as anti-social before there can be any real change.