Taking up more road?

[1gear]

Ive only just started to do this. When ive watched other people cycle, they dont seem to do it either.
What i mean is, moving over into the other lane before turning.
Now, the main time i do this, is on tighter turns.
On one turn, its a tight turn left, with a lane on the right hand side. I look to see if its clear, move over into the lane before coming back over again.
Im normally doing a decent speed when i do this, and you can go around just staying in your lane, but cournering just seems to be much smoother if i do it like this.
Also, on some round a bouts when turning right, ill be in the right hand lane, look over the left shoulder and over over into the left lane if its clear, and take a wider swing at the round about.
Again, it feels smoother.
And i did it again today, doing a right turn at a junction, coming up at speed, moved over into the left hand lane because it was clear before doing the right hand turn.
Ive also changed my 'primary' position. Instead of being in the middle, ill be over in the tyre track on the right depending on the junction.
Really does seem to stop cars trying to overtake at the last moment, which i sometimes find that being in the middle doesnt do.
Maybe im taking up, and using, more space then what i need to.
Ive taken islands by going in both lanes aswell if its clear, another thing that i dont see many cyclists doing. Most seem to stay in their lane and go around like that.
Again, i will look over my right shoulder and if its clear and ok to, then ill use both lanes.

Works for me.
What do you reckon? Anyone else do it? Or do you all stick in your lanes?
I also cross over to the other side of the road if its clear aswell, and i can see around a courner enough. Another thing which most people ive cycled with wont do.

[Jon P]

I think it's a good idea, not to enable smoother cornering but to make sure nothing can force you into the middle of the road, the priority of lanes is not always clear.  So keep right on the approach to make intentions clear but take over the LH lane on the junction itself as you are suggesting.

I also think motorists need educating about the amount of space and priority they should give cyclists approaching junctions esp roundabouts, and like you I am prepared to do it, though they don't like it most of the time!

[1gear]

Well, i would have also done it while learning to drive, but you cant do it for DSA standards, you have to stay in one lane.
You dont really need to cross both lanes at round abouts, but on some you can do it and have a much smother go around, or across it, and much smoother cournering.
I used to sort of do it, but stayed to my own lane, then just moved out from it.
Some yoooth on some crappy moped was infront of me, going at the same speed, he stayed in the lane and did the right hand bend. I moved over into the left hand lane for going straight on(clear, and no cars behind me) and took the right hand bend. I went through it much smoother and faster.
On a round about i said i did it on, to me it makes perfect sence. But everyone ive followed through there on bikes doesnt do it, and stayes in their lanes.
Lane discaplin is fine, but if the space is there and its safe to do so, then why not?

[Wendy]

If I understand correctly, you mean taking the racing line?  You're not talking about using primary, right?

[1gear]

Im taking a slightly more racing line.
The bit where i talk about primary, what im meaning is i go to the right of primary, depending on the junction. So where in primary you would be in the middle of the lane, on some junctions i sit on the right of the lane, which ive found stops people passing last minute.
Its not just racing line either sometimes, its just using abit more space, but not going completely on what would be a racing line.

[seventytwo]

Im taking a slightly more racing line.

Surely there's a rule about going into the oncoming lane when not overtaking?  I can't see ever going so fast on a bike that I need to take the racing line.   

The bit where i talk about primary, what im meaning is i go to the right of primary, depending on the junction. So where in primary you would be in the middle of the lane, on some junctions i sit on the right of the lane

You're not supposed to sit to the right of the lane as it encourages cars to undertake you.  I used to do it until my driving theory test included a question on this and I was wrong because I didn't say middle of the lane for a right turn at a t-junction. 

[1gear]

How does it encourage cars to undertake, when theres a pvement there?
If your in the right hand lane, and the left lane is clean, nothing will stop someone undertaking. Ive tried lots of different positions, primary is best for this.
But if theres a pavement on the left or a line of cars, then being further to the right is better.
As for the bit of using more road, i mainly do it on tighter bends. If you can see around them and its cllear then why not move out on a tighter courner and take a nice swing?
Or move into the lane at the side of you(if your going right, your in the right lane and theres a lane on the left of you for going straight thats clear) and its safe to move over into it then why not do it?
Ofcourse, if its not safe to do it then you can go around without doing it, but ive always found it much smoother and able to carry more speed around the courner if you use abit more room when you can
Primary is alright sometimes, but being over to the right can sometimes be better, depending on the situation.
Its probably not in the cycle book you all love, but it works, and can make you go through courners smoother.
Sitting over to the right of the lane at times can also discourage people overtaking at the last moment, especially if your blocking them coming past on the right, and a curb is stopping them coming past on the left.
Ofcourse you alter how far to the right depending on road width, lane width.
But if you have a brain then that takes a second to work out.

[teethgrinder]

Im taking a slightly more racing line.

Surely there's a rule about going into the oncoming lane when not overtaking?  I can't see ever going so fast on a bike that I need to take the racing line.   

I often take the racing line. It means that I can see further around the bend and am in a better position to select a position to put myself in if I see a hazard. It does depend on the conditions though. My brakes work well. I see a lot of motorists do it in Devon, Somerset and Cornwall too.
On my commute to work, it's the only way I can negotiate the tight turns on the cycleway and I'm doing about 5mph at the time so outright speed isn't the only factor. I've also taken the racing line going into a supermarket car park. The impatient git behind me didn't like my being on the right of the lane, so started honking his hooter. I then took the switchback at about 15mph. The impateint git behind tried to do the same and very nearly hit someone coming the other way as I rode off.
I also ride a fixed, so am wary about leaning heavily into bends for fear of grounding my pedal. The racing line means less leaning.
It's also safer if you're turning (left) into a side road, especially if there is gravel or potholes. It will enable you to hit the uprigt and square on instead of leaning and at an angle, which can cause an offski.
You don't usualy need the whole width of the lane, unless you're going pretty fast.

I have ridden on the right of the lane before, but very rarely do it when there are cars trying to get past, unless I'm travelling at the same speed. Riding on the right of the lane is my default position for cycling on empty roads in the early hours. I certainly don't think it's a good idea when there are people trying to get past though.
If the road is clear, then I use any part of it I like. I do cross the dotted centreline on bends to take use the camber as banking and take a wider arc. But only if I'm sure that it's safe and I won't scare anyone and certainly not on blind bends.

[1gear]

Exactly.
Being on the right of primary is also good at pinch points, when theres a centre crossing.
Stop people pushing you in, going past quickly before . But you do have to be abit more confident.
I do ride fixed, and only fixed, and i suppose the other reason i courner like this is so i dont have to lean over so far, to avoid pedal strike.
Its also smoother, like ive said.
Ofcourse, this does go by how fast your are going.
As for crossing onto the other side of the road, if its safe to do so then why not?
I cant think of a reason not to if its safe and will give you a smoother line.
Ive also been completely on the other side of the road when there was a big puddle in the road. The road was straight, clear ahead and behind so i crossed right over onto the other side and went through the bit of road with no water on.
No risk of hitting a pot hole, completely safe to do it, but the others i was riding with just went through the puddle
It could deffinatly be worth a try, you do have to look alot further ahead though, over hedges etc, listen for engine notes.

And being right of primary, pretty much where the right tyres would be on a car, does and will discourage motorists from getting past.
Primary is good at times, but other times being to the right is even better and alot stronger at times.
Its not in cyclewaft, but then im sure it misses out other things

[mattc]

Riding "wide" is a different issue, but the "Racing Line" has all the advantages already posted.
[I do it in the car - it's great on LHers with reduced visibility.]

The only cons I know:
- if you've overlooked another road-user, you could confuse them (e.g. the undertaking problem).
- you can con yourself into taking corners too fast i.e. you need less grip for a certain speed, but there are still unseen hazards that require a more 'moderate' speed.
[This has been said many times about "boy racer" types in cars - their speed/line might be perfect if no other road-users are around, BUT ... ]

[1gear]

Riding "wide" is a different issue, but the "Racing Line" has all the advantages already posted.
[I do it in the car - it's great on LHers with reduced visibility.]

The only cons I know:
- if you've overlooked another road-user, you could confuse them (e.g. the undertaking problem).
- you can con yourself into taking corners too fast i.e. you need less grip for a certain speed, but there are still unseen hazards that require a more 'moderate' speed.
[This has been said many times about "boy racer" types in cars - their speed/line might be perfect if no other road-users are around, BUT ... ]

Yes BUT, i go around courners on what can be classed as the racing line, but could easily stay in the lane and not go wide before the courner.
So im going at the same speed, maybe slightly faster, but im just not leaning the bike in so far.
Theres a courner in town which is pretty fast but quite tight. it worrys me abit if i go around it because im sure my pedal isnt far from the ground, so i go abit wider. Im not going any faster, and im staying in the lanes going in the same direction as me, im just using some of another lane.

As for being over to the right encouraging undertaking, that truely is bollocks.
If you do it in the CORRECT place, where theres pavement or a line of cars on the left, there is NO room to squeeze past on the left, nor is there room on the right without going completely into the other lane.
Or, when theres a central crossing or on the Loop Road near me theres a section of pavement in the middle. I sit over to the right of primary. Theres pavement on the left, pavement on the right, im further over to the right and there no squeezing past, which ive had when im in primary.
Being over to the left, someone will squeeze past beause they can go into the other side of the road slightly.
Sit over on the right(again if you do this in the right place) and you will have pavement(or traffic) on the left with no room for a car, and you being over on the right means that a car that could overtake, would have to go completely across into the other lane/other side of the road, to get past. They cant just squeeze past, only going into the other lane/other side of the road slightly.
It works.
Give sitting over to the right of primary a try. It works when you do it right.

[Redlight]

I tend to use as much of the road as I can safely see during the day and often cut across corners at night - as Matt C can confirm - when I can see whether there are any lights coming from the other direction.  I suppose there is always the risk of encountering an unlit car or a poorly-lit cyclist coming the other way... but it hasn't happened yet