Ex boxer latest cycling fatality.

[Domestique]

                Cyclists 'left unprotected by police and courts' -
                    Home News, UK - The Independent

The readers comments on that are very very depressing reading

[spindrift]

                Cyclists 'left unprotected by police and courts' -
                    Home News, UK - The Independent

The readers comments on that are very very depressing reading

Not all of them. Some are from idiots. That's what the internet's for.

God forbid me for this but maybe it takes a celebrity's death whilst cycling for the CPS and cops to take it seriously.

That's a horrible, callous post on some levels, I don't mean it to be.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

I know that junction well as it was on my commute home when I cycled from BikePlus, one of the stop lines is in the path that vehicles often take; as in the google maps picture of the area below. At that angle a rider could be in the  blind spot of the car driver’s windscreen pillar, plus the riders lights would be side on especially if the cyclist was turning right away from the oncoming vehicle. I don’t know what the actual circumstances were, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gary was on the stop line where that car, shown more clearly in the lower picture was.

I would often get off my bike at that junction, as I was sensitive to the fact that the white lines, especially in the dark are not as obvious in the from a drivers eye view as they are from above as in that picture of course; the route that the many motorists take are the same as in that picture below, along with the potential blind spot often their focus is on missing the oncoming traffic on the main road, as many then swoop right, often at speed, into the side road and into the path of….…..; I’ve always disliked that junction!

I repeat, I’m not saying that’s what infact did happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.





Paul Smith
Touring Tips

[mattc]

God forbid me for this but maybe it takes a celebrity's death whilst cycling for the CPS and cops to take it seriously.

That's a horrible, callous post on some levels, I don't mean it to be.

This won't sound right and I don't mean it to sound the way it does, but hopefully this high profile death will have a benefit of highlighting the issues we have.

RIP - he always came across as a nice bloke when interview on TV.

Agree with both of you. I only wish this was someone with a higher profile - a name that would cause every Joe Public to gasp, and would guarantee front-page coverage.

[spindrift]

Barrister calls for tougher action on lorry drivers who kill cyclists


Barrister calls for tougher action on lorry drivers  who kill cyclists | News

[fuzzy]

I know that junction well as it was on my commute home when I cycled from BikePlus, one of the stop lines is in the path that vehicles often take; as in the google maps picture of the area below. At that angle a rider could be in the  blind spot of the car driver’s windscreen pillar, plus the riders lights would be side on especially if the cyclist was turning right away from the oncoming vehicle. I don’t know what the actual circumstances were, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gary was on the stop line where that car, shown more clearly in the lower picture was.

I would often get off my bike at that junction, as I was sensitive to the fact that the white lines, especially in the dark are not as obvious in the from a drivers eye view as they are from above as in that picture of course; the route that the many motorists take are the same as in that picture below, along with the potential blind spot often their focus is on missing the oncoming traffic on the main road, as many then swoop right, often at speed, into the side road and into the path of….…..; I’ve always disliked that junction!

I repeat, I’m not saying that’s what infact did happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.





Paul Smith
Touring Tips

Paul,

if I am viewing the images correctly, that is not a stop line but the edge line for the hatching. The markings are supposed to direct traffic to wait at the give way line at a more perpendicular angle to the major route, so improving their view of traffic flow accross their path. The car in the image is taking the lazy way through the junction and making it a damn sight harder to check the way is clear to proceed.

[matthew]

Having seen Pauls photos of the junction and his assumption that the cyclist has come from either the NE or SE side roads and is turning North. I can easily see how being stopped at the GW to turn into the major road you are broadside on to a driver approaching from the south and forking Right, who may well drive over those hatchings to make their turn.

The alignment of the car in the photo is odd as they have not started their right turn as indicated by their road position. Unless it is a hatchback cutting the corner exactly as discribed above.

[mattc]

The alignment of the car in the photo is odd as they have not started their right turn as indicated by their road position. Unless it is a hatchback cutting the corner exactly as discribed above.

That was my inference.

And if not, it does at least illustrate where a corner-cutter would drive!

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Having seen Pauls photos of the junction and his assumption that the cyclist has come from either the NE or SE side roads and is turning North. I can easily see how being stopped at the GW to turn into the major road you are broadside on to a driver approaching from the south and forking Right, who may well drive over those hatchings to make their turn.

The alignment of the car in the photo is odd as they have not started their right turn as indicated by their road position. Unless it is a hatchback cutting the corner exactly as discribed above.

I was implying the following;

Red circles Gary’s route with yellow his planned route
Red arrow the car’s route, yellow their planned route




Paul Smith
Touring Tips

[fuzzy]

Looking at the image again (and precipitated by your arrows Paul) I have to ask, why are there Give Way lines marked on the right (incorrect) side of the road?

Something odd there.

[hellymedic]

Looks OK to me; one set of Give Way lines for right turners, one for left turners/mergers and a set on the smaller side road.
The car should NOT be where it is but I'm sure this abuse is commonplace.

[matthew]

Fuzzy there not wrong, replace the hatchings with an island and it becomes clear that you have a NE to S left turning lane and a small stub right turn lane.

In my view the junction is incorrectly laid out only in that there should be a traffic island in the place of the hatches though that may not be possible and retain the ability for larger vehicles to turn from the E bound side road into the left turning lane and then south down the main road.

[Rykard]

maybe the car should have gone further down the round and turned 90 right where the firt yellow dot is rather than cut the corner?

[Kevina9]

Barrister calls for tougher action on lorry drivers who kill cyclists


Barrister calls for tougher action on lorry drivers  who kill cyclists | News

This got some airtime at about 0740 on the BBC breakfast program. They had two experts in the studio - a female journalist who cycles, and a male motoring journalist. Didn't get their names, but it took the latter all of about 5 seconds to get on to the "cyclists jump red lights" kind of tack... 

[fuzzy]

Is that section of road one way with 2 lanes or two way, one lane in each direction. If it is one way, then there should not be Give Way markings there unless the direction of travel is North to South, just a broken white line to delinate the start of the road/ edge of the major route. If two way, why Give Way markings for a right turn that is effectively on the side of the road for traffic entering the side road? Look at the lane division lines on the approach to the junction- they are constant up to the hatchings.

[spindrift]

Barrister calls for tougher action on lorry drivers who kill cyclists


Barrister calls for tougher action on lorry drivers  who kill cyclists | News

This got some airtime at about 0740 on the BBC breakfast program. They had two experts in the studio - a female journalist who cycles, and a male motoring journalist. Didn't get their names, but it took the latter all of about 5 seconds to get on to the "cyclists jump red lights" kind of tack... 

The hack was Zoe Williams.


I've no idea who the fat man was and why he would attach his ragtag caravan of ignorance and prejudice to a man's violent death.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

maybe the car should have gone further down the round and turned 90 right where the firt yellow dot is rather than cut the corner?

Car Red Dots
Cyclist yellow dot

In stead of the route it took the car should have taken the red dot route



Paul Smith
Touring Tips

[Rapples]

Man was someone Rayner, one of Claires sons I assume by voice and mannerisms

[hubner]

I think the yellow arrow shows the correct turn. The car in the photo probably took the route in the red arrow.

[fuzzy]

That junction still looks wrong to me. The Give Way markings for the right turn are on the wrong side of the road. They are withing the marked carriageway for traffic entering the side road traveling North.

I am not aiming criticism to any poster on here or spoiling for an argument, just trying to understand the road as I don't know it.

[mattc]

(one for older readers there ... )

[Paul Smith SRCC]

That junction still looks wrong to me. The Give Way markings for the right turn are on the wrong side of the road. They are withing the marked carriageway for traffic entering the side road traveling North.

I am not aiming criticism to any poster on here or spoiling for an argument, just trying to understand the road as I don't know it.

This help? Nothing should enter the red box.

It's a confusing junction and the road markings if followed would have stopped what I believed may have happened, which is that the car cut the corner.



Paul Smith
Touring Tips

[PaulR]

I think the confusing aspect is the way the markings that come down the middle of the road from top right, which look like the markings that divide the northbound from the southbound lanes, don't show any point where a southbound road user who wants to turn right could properly cross those markings - I would expect to see the southbound lane split in two, rather than having (as appears to be the case here) a give way marking in what appears to be the opposite (northbound) lane.  Having said that, I'm not sure that's the worst feature of this junction.

This is just round the corner from son number 1's school so, not surprisingly, there's been a lot of talk there.  i don't know yet if he's having to deal with idiotic comments at school - he has a slight tendency to get a bit militant about cyclists' rights, which I admire, but he probably ought to be concentrating on his "critical thinking" exam today.

[rwa.martin]

That junction still looks wrong to me. The Give Way markings for the right turn are on the wrong side of the road. They are withing the marked carriageway for traffic entering the side road traveling North.

I am not aiming criticism to any poster on here or spoiling for an argument, just trying to understand the road as I don't know it.

This help? Nothing should enter the red box



Paul Smith
Touring Tips

I don't think that is correct. The triangle is hatched, not solid white lines. This does not preclude cars entering it and as such makes the cutting of the corner legitimate assuming there is nothing at the give way (although as a qualified driving instructor it's not something I would teach a learner to do (however, turning right correctly may result in a collision by a vehicle following you cutting the corner, if you see what I mean; so you're sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't).

Cars turning right from the junction would have to complete 2 manouevres - a yield to traffic entering the road before crossing the centre line then a give way at the give way line.

The junction would most definitely benefit from the red area being an island.

[De Sisti]

Perhaps a (mini) roundabout there would make the road markings easier to comprehend.