The Greatest British Football Manager Ever

[citoyen]

...retired in 1983, having won six league titles and three European Cups in nine seasons, which I think you'll find is a far better ratio of success than 13 league titles and two European Cups in 27 seasons.

Just saying.

[Polar Bear]

Herbert Chapman died in 1934 but achieved greatness for two top tier teams.

In those days most of the players lived in the terraced housing around the grounds. 

[bobb]

Hasn't Ferguson been "Retiring at the end of the season" for about 10 years now?!

[Jaded]

I suppose that means that Premiership matches will be a few minutes shorter next season.

[citoyen]

Hasn't Ferguson been "Retiring at the end of the season" for about 10 years now?!

He actually retired in 2007. The last six seasons have been time added on.

[LEE]

...retired in 1983, having won six league titles and three European Cups in nine seasons, which I think you'll find is a far better ratio of success than 13 league titles and two European Cups in 27 seasons.

Just saying.

Paisley took over a top, trophy-winning, machine.  My dog could have taken over and won a few trophies.

Shankley was the real equivalent of Ferguson.  He set the Liverpool tradition and I think most Scouse Reds would point to Shankley as their greatest manager, not Paisley. (Although I really admired Paisley's unassuming nature).

What Ferguson has done is eclipse Matt Busby.  Not something I thought could ever happen.

Check out what Ferguson did with Aberdeen.  Now that was impressive.

[Biff]

Something of a poisoned chalice taking over from Taggart.

[LEE]

Something of a poisoned chalice taking over from Taggart.

Yes, the very best you can hope for is to do just as well as the previous bloke.

Whichever Mourinho, I mean whoever takes over next, had better start winning Champions League trophies pronto.

[citoyen]

Paisley took over a top, trophy-winning, machine.  My dog could have taken over and won a few trophies.

Shankley was the real equivalent of Ferguson.  He set the Liverpool tradition and I think most Scouse Reds would point to Shankley as their greatest manager, not Paisley. (Although I really admired Paisley's unassuming nature).

Shanks brought a club close to financial ruin up from the second division to become one of the best sides in Europe. Ferguson took over a side that was having a bad spell in the league but had won the FA Cup twice in the previous few years under Atkinson. The "rescue" job Fergie did on Man United is largely mythology. There's no comparison.

As for how easy it is to take over a successful team and improve it, I guess we'll soon find out when the new manager takes over at Old Trafford... As you say, whoever it is will have to be a lot more successful in Europe than Fergie has been.

Check out what Ferguson did with Aberdeen.  Now that was impressive.

Oh yes, I remember the Cup Winners Cup.

[LEE]

Calm down, Calm Down Citoyen.

That's you in the middle isn't it?



Ferguson also broke the Celtic/Rangers dominance while he was at Aberdeen, probably as big an achievement as his Manchester United ones.

[citoyen]

Shut it. Or I'll steal your hubcaps.

[Flynn]

Does this mean their core supporters will be drowning their sorrows today in pubs across London?

[mcshroom]

Herbert Chapman died in 1934 but achieved greatness for two top tier teams.

In those days most of the players lived in the terraced housing around the grounds. 

I would have to agree with Chapman, though the three league titles and FA Cup with Huddersfield were supported by the club being rather rich at the time^[1].

Fergusson is definitely the best manager in my lifetime though^[2]

[1] Just before Leeds United tried to take over Huddersfield Town and take the merged club to Leeds. There was a big public fundraising effort to keep the club (and Leeds Road ground) which raised far more than was required, leaving the club with a large surplus for the team. (Money spoke even then)

[2]I was born in 1983

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

Thatcher died, SAF's retiring. Somewhere there's a Scouser with a lamp and one wish left.

[LEE]

Thatcher died, SAF's retiring. Somewhere there's a Scouser with a lamp and one wish left.

I just heard the Queen announce that the Government are to tighten up on Benefit claims.  I guess it must have been one of those 2-wish lamps.

[mcshroom]

I guess it must have been one of those 2-wish lamps.

Well that's coalition cuts for you

[Domestique]

As good as SAF is/was, he never drove the team bus or washed the team kit 

[Biff]

Since he announced his retirement today he obviously expects to finish in October.

[LEE]

Check out what Ferguson did with Aberdeen.  Now that was impressive.

Oh yes, I remember the Cup Winners Cup.

Well.. he joined Aberdeen in 1978
They were runners up in the League Cup in 78/79
They were League Champions and League Cup Runners up in 79/80
They were runners up in the League in 80/81
They were runners up in the league and won the Scottish cup in 81/82
They won the Scottish Cup AND European Cup Winners cup  in 82/83
They won the league and cup double AND European Super Cup  in 83/84
They won the league in 84/85
The won the Scottish cup and league cup in 85/86

Then he joined United.

I'd say that his record at Aberdeen is bordering on astonishing.  Any Aberdeen fans out there?  If so, have you seen this sort of form in recent years?

[citoyen]

The context of his achievement with Aberdeen - breaking the Old Firm monopoly - makes it even more impressive.

I've never much liked the man but I recognise he's done his job quite well over the years.

[David Martin]

Any Aberdeen fans out there?  If so, have you seen this any sort of form in recent years?

That really is a quite astonishing record.

[LEE]

Let's continue

he joined Aberdeen in 1978
They were runners up in the League Cup in 78/79
They were League Champions and League Cup Runners up in 79/80
They were runners up in the League in 80/81
They were runners up in the league and won the Scottish cup in 81/82
They won the Scottish Cup AND European Cup Winners cup  in 82/83
They won the league and cup double AND European Super Cup  in 83/84
They won the league in 84/85
The won the Scottish cup and league cup in 85/86

Then he joined United.

87-89 - average to below average, the press were speculating it had all been a mistake...
89/90 - FA Cup
90/91 - European Cup Winners Cup
91/92 - League Cup & European Super Cup
92/93 - Premier League
93/94 - Premier League & FA Cup double
94/95 - Prem runners up, FA Cup Runners up
95/96 - Premier League & FA Cup double
96/97 - Premier League
97/98 - Prem runners up
98/99 - Champions League, Premiership & FA Cup Treble
99/00 - Premier League
00/01- Premier League (3rd time in succession)
01/02 -3rd in Prem
02/03 - Premier League
03/04 - FA Cup
04/05 - FA Cup Runners Up & 3rd in Prem
05/06 - League Cup
06/07 - Premier League
07/08 - Premier League & Champions League
08/09 - Premier League & League Cup & Champs League runners up
09/10 - Prem Runners up and League Cup
10/11 -  Premier League & Champs League runners up
11/12 - Prem Runners up (by 1 goal)
12/13 - Premier League

So I make that 10 seasons without a trophy since 1978 but, if you include "runners up" being a measure of success then that's 2 seasons since 1978 without success, because he twice finished 3rd in the premier league.

2 seasons without success in 35 years (where 3rd in the Premier league was seen as failure).

I don't see that ever being equalled. 

In reality half the clubs in the Premiership view avoiding relegation as a measure of success, half of the rest see a top half position as success, half of the remainder would be happy with a top 6 finish, a couple would be ecstatic with 3rd place just once every 5 years and about 4 clubs view 3rd place as a failure (Actually make that 3 because Arsenal have, in my opinion, dropped out of that top 4..it's basically Man U, Man C and Chelsea now).

Anyway, nobody is ever going to get a 35 year run like that again.

Bob Paisley had an amazing 9 year run, Bill Shankley a longer but less trophy-dense 15 years (but, more importantly than Paisley I think, built the modern reputation of today's Liverpool).

Liverpool are now without a "League 1" (Premier League) trophy since 89/90, that's a quarter of a century approaching.  It could soon be the case that no Liverpool squad member will have been alive the last time Liverpool were the top English team.

As someone who grew up watching football in the 70's and 80's that seems incredible.

Fergie said he wanted to "topple them from their perch"  ...and he did just that.

[citoyen]

No, Graeme Souness did that.

In the same period that Fergie has been at United, Milan may have got through several more managers but they've also won the European Cup several more times...

It's often said (including by Fergie) that no player is bigger than the club. Wonder what United might have achieved if that rule applied to managers too.

[citoyen]

And just look at Pep Guardiola - 14 trophies in four seasons at Barcelona, including knocking Fergie off his perch twice in the European Cup final, but still not regarded as bigger than the club...

Is the backing of Fergie by the Man Utd board over the years a sign of admirable loyalty or naive short-sightedness?

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

[spoilsport] say. Let's wait and see what happens over the next ten years and then we might be able to comment based on performances rather than wild speculation. [/spoilsport]