Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: Jethro on 03 April, 2021, 09:13:59 pm
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Just found this https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/humber-bridge-footpaths-closed-indefinitely-5261126
Its not local to me but may affect some of you out there.
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Two things,
bridges don’t kill people, people,do.
And on a less flippant note, perhaps it’s time something was done about the appalling state of the mental health care provision in this country.
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"We appreciate this might cause some inconvenience, but we ask that pedestrians and cyclists respect the decision and avoid the Humber Bridge at the present time.”
The journey from North to South Ferriby is about an hour by bike, or a couple of hours walk. Without the bridge, it's 5 hours by bike or 18 hours walk.
Driving takes 12 minutes via the bridge, or a bit over an hour round the long way.
Guess who won't be inconvenienced?
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Two things,
bridges don’t kill people, people,do.
And on a less flippant note, perhaps it’s time something was done about the appalling state of the mental health care provision in this country.
Yes. Also a recognition of where the issues come from. A great friend of mine was abused as a youngster. Mental health issues, oh yes.
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If a road is not a motorway (e.g. the humber bridge) is it legal to say you can't cycle on it?
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If a road is not a motorway (e.g. the humber bridge) is it legal to say you can't cycle on it?
If a road is designated a Special Road you can ban whatever forms of transport you like. All motorways are Special Roads.
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If I were the bridge operator and there was a sudden spate of jumpers, I would feel compelled not to ignore it. Not least because it would have a considerable impact on the mental health of me and my staff. Not a longterm solution in any shape or form, but maybe a temporary relief.
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It’s not marked as motorway on the map but it’s been a while since I’ve been over it so I don’t know if it’s a special road. If the authorities had any sense of duty then they run a minibus service for cyclists and pedestrians like the Dartford Crossing.
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It’s not marked as motorway on the map but it’s been a while since I’ve been over it so I don’t know if it’s a special road. If the authorities had any sense of duty then they run a minibus service for cyclists and pedestrians like the Dartford Crossing.
The Dartford Crossing bike service has been reduced to operate only 19 hours out of every 24.
It used to be a 24 hr service.
The reason given for this is to make the service better suited to cyclists needs.
Yes, really.
Time it wrong and you can look forward to a wait of as much as 1.5 hrs before the service resumes.
In reality someone wanting to cross from the opposite side to that which you are on, would probably end up waiting longer if you turn up 15 minutes before service suspension. The reason given by the service provider (sic) is that they cannot take you and your bike to the other side and return in the time before service suspension commences. ::-)
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I don’t believe any of the big bridges are motorway so as to enable most none motorway traffics to use the crossings.
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If a road is not a motorway (e.g. the humber bridge) is it legal to say you can't cycle on it?
If a road is designated a Special Road you can ban whatever forms of transport you like. All motorways are Special Roads.
I can't see anything on https://www.humberbridge.co.uk/ (https://www.humberbridge.co.uk/) to say you can't ride on the carriageway. It's been a couple of years since I actually rode over, so I can't be certain that ther are no no cycling signs.
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If a road is not a motorway (e.g. the humber bridge) is it legal to say you can't cycle on it?
If a road is designated a Special Road you can ban whatever forms of transport you like. All motorways are Special Roads.
I can't see anything on https://www.humberbridge.co.uk/ (https://www.humberbridge.co.uk/) to say you can't ride on the carriageway. It's been a couple of years since I actually rode over, so I can't be certain that ther are no no cycling signs.
According to Google Streetview (Dated May 2019), (https://goo.gl/maps/TZ9GbrqnHgz7Gj8V7) on the A15 northbound just south of the bridge (at the point where the cycle path starts) there are "No Cycling" signs on both sides of the carriageway. There is also one at the north side (https://goo.gl/maps/c4QNNj1nxkaAPpu59) at the point where the cycle path diverts to the car park/visitor centre (same date).
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I don’t believe any of the big bridges are motorway so as to enable most none motorway traffics to use the crossings.
This is the case with the Dartford Crossing.
It (and it's approach roads) is/are yclept the A282 and not the M25 which joins the A282 a few kilometres north and south from each end of the crossing.
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I don’t believe any of the big bridges are motorway so as to enable most none motorway traffics to use the crossings.
Wikinaccurate claims that the old and new Severn Crossings are the M48 and M4 respectively, though it seems the latter doesn’t have a pedestrian/cycle path.
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It doesn't. The old Severn is the M48, but the bike path isn't the motorway.
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The Queensferry Crossing carries the M90 (there is an alternative for non-motorway traffic to the east, thobut).
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A new footbridge has opened in Hull across the A63. We walked across it recently and it was obvious that it could be used by suicides.
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It's a misconception that roads can't be closed to cyclists unless they are motorways. I think there are bye-laws which allow councils to do this. There's certainly a road in Oldham on which it is forbidden to ride.
I certainly endorse the calls for serious efforts to improve (or possibly even start) mental health provision.
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It's a misconception that roads can't be closed to cyclists unless they are motorways. I think there are bye-laws which allow councils to do this. There's certainly a road in Oldham on which it is forbidden to ride.
See grams' previous post about Special Roads. There are plenty of closed-to-non-motorised-traffic not-motorways round here, such as chunks of the A406 and the A roads either side of the Blackwall Tunnel.
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I think part of the A40 on the approach to Oxford is No Cycling.
I have cycled on the forbidden bits of the A406 in the wee small hours.
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Riding illegally puts you at greater risk if things don’t go to plan.
The opportunities for would-be suicides are legion; in York we have a river which people jump into for example. I fear that a return to socialising in the city will see quite a bit of that starting up.
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I think part of the A40 on the approach to Oxford is No Cycling.
I have cycled on the forbidden bits of the A406 in the wee small hours.
I've accidentally cycled on Westway and the West Cross Route, neither of which have motorway status any more but are forbidden to cyclists. However, if you get caught in the one-way system on Gloucester Terrace, that's where you end up. There is a prohibition sign for bigger lorries and buses, but not for bikes.
229 Gloucester Terrace
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AYkUuqKXe64w5sBc9
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I've accidentally cycled on Westway and the West Cross Route, neither of which have motorway status any more but are forbidden to cyclists. However, if you get caught in the one-way system on Gloucester Terrace, that's where you end up. There is a prohibition sign for bigger lorries and buses, but not for bikes.
That's crazy.
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Some info (or okay it might be speculation) from a comment on road.cc:
Just to provide a bit of context, for as long as I can remember there have been calls to alter the bridge and make it harder for people to take their own lives by jumping from it. A few months back there were two young men who took their lives within minutes of one and other. In the last week or so I understand that six people committed suicide, and as if that wasn't tragic enough what is especially concerning is that some of them, I'm afraid, were schoolchildren.
FWIW I think this will be a temporary ban, and I think it has come about because the bridge board doesn't have the resources to alter the bridge in an appropriate way. I think this is their way of highlighting their concerns and trying to get the funding from other authorities. I don't think they're cynical, just desperate. Of course, I could be wrong.
The last time I went over the Humber Bridge - a couple of months ago - the east side pedestrian and cycle shared path was still closed as it had been for a very long time. It was unpleasant and crowded with groups and dog walkers. I hadn't any plans to go over again. I'm now wondering if one side was closed so that the bridge staff had only the western "footway" to monitor.
I don't envy the bridge board. They must have been under a lot of pressure. Even though the Humber Bridge is on the National Cycle Network Route 1, leisure cyclists, dog walkers and runners have got quite a lot of options on "their" side of the estuary. The MP for West Hull and Hessle, Emma Hardy, is seeking clarification from the bridge board about how pedestrians and cycle commuters who live on one side and work on the other will manage. There has been some talk of a shuttle service, but at the moment that's all it is - talk.
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Time to think about a new route for LEL
2021 2022?
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Time to think about a new route for LEL 2021 2022?
I can see both sides of the decision to close the Humber Bridge, but on balance it strike me as a disproportionate response when there isn't an equivalent alternative for cyclists. When the Edinburgh Bypass opened, cycling was banned but there is a signposted alternative (which is a bit rubbish but at least it exists).
IIRC LEL 2022 was planning to use Dunfermline as its northern destination so that will mean crossing the Forth Road Bridge twice. I hadn't thought of it until now but were the FRB to be closed then the detour would add around 30km each way (via Kincardine Bridge) though I very much suspect that the LEL organisers with their customary effectiveness will have thought about this long before me.
A number of times I've cycled over the FRB late at night or the early hours I've noticed an official vehicle on the cycle path. Id initially thought it was maintenance related but its possible that they monitor the situation more actively than Id imagined.
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I've accidentally cycled on Westway and the West Cross Route, neither of which have motorway status any more but are forbidden to cyclists. However, if you get caught in the one-way system on Gloucester Terrace, that's where you end up. There is a prohibition sign for bigger lorries and buses, but not for bikes.
That's crazy.
That's exactly where I ended up on it. If there's no sign, any prohibition can't be enforced anyway.
I think part of the A40 on the approach to Oxford is No Cycling.
I have cycled on the forbidden bits of the A406 in the wee small hours.
None that I'm aware of. I've cycled the A40 from the Wolvercote to Denham at various times. There is a section of the A4142 that's signed as no cycling heading northbound from Horspath, cycling southbound from that junction was always good fun. :thumbsup: Actually going past a no cycling sign a little further along on the service road for the Mini plant, then immediately rejoining, only to exit for Cowley (you could stay on!). It was fun because you avoided most of the traffic flow, and could get some decent speed up down the Cowley exit.
Now, I did once end up on the M40 from Milton Common until I got back onto the A40 at Wheatley...
Anyway, regarding the Humber, it looks like at this angle you could avoid seeing the cycling restrictions.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/1617632267776-png.582471/)
"If you can't see it, it's not there!"
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Time to think about a new route for LEL 2021 2022?
I can see both sides of the decision to close the Humber Bridge, but on balance it strike me as a disproportionate response when there isn't an equivalent alternative for cyclists. When the Edinburgh Bypass opened, cycling was banned but there is a signposted alternative (which is a bit rubbish but at least it exists).
IIRC LEL 2022 was planning to use Dunfermline as its northern destination so that will mean crossing the Forth Road Bridge twice. I hadn't thought of it until now but were the FRB to be closed then the detour would add around 30km each way (via Kincardine Bridge) though I very much suspect that the LEL organisers with their customary effectiveness will have thought about this long before me.
A number of times I've cycled over the FRB late at night or the early hours I've noticed an official vehicle on the cycle path. Id initially thought it was maintenance related but its possible that they monitor the situation more actively than Id imagined.
Yeah, I've had to consider the possibility of a "police incident" for the calendar event im hoping to run in October and perm on the same route.
At least with wind closures its fairly predictable and cycling is unpleasant well before they close (FRB even more so due to low barrier and precipice both sides of the cycleway).
The TRB being in town means its a fairly regular occurrence, I once took an early morning ride and as I approached Newport from Tayport saw brake lights followed people looking shocked, someone had launched themselves from the highest part of the bridge onto the road below. Was kind of glad of the sub minute delay caused by early morning tourists in St Andrews.
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
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Anyway, regarding the Humber, it looks like at this angle you could avoid seeing the cycling restrictions.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/1617632267776-png.582471/)
"If you can't see it, it's not there!"
What do you think the sign with the black bicycle on a white background with a red circle round it is then?
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Anyway, regarding the Humber, it looks like at this angle you could avoid seeing the cycling restrictions.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/1617632267776-png.582471/)
"If you can't see it, it's not there!"
What do you think the sign with the black bicycle on a white background with a red circle round it is then?
being on the left post as it is you could conclude that is,for the ‘footpath’ on the left and not for the main carriageway.
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Anyway, regarding the Humber, it looks like at this angle you could avoid seeing the cycling restrictions.
(https://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/1617632267776-png.582471/)
"If you can't see it, it's not there!"
What do you think the sign with the black bicycle on a white background with a red circle round it is then?
being on the left post as it is you could conclude that is,for the ‘footpath’ on the left and not for the main carriageway.
There is one on the right, but it's positioned before this point, so you wouldn't see it. There is an explanatory sign there "no cycling on carriageway". But my primary point is that any cyclist making that maneouvre is going to be looking to their right for traffic, not at street furniture on their left, which I'm sure could reasonably be kept out of your field of view until you were past the thing.
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One audaxer crosses the bridge on main carriageway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW4hR51Gilw
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Doesn't show us the relevant section of his ride though!
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Humber Bridge staff tell cyclist he can ride across it on main carriageway … police at other end tell him he can’t
https://road.cc/content/news/mixed-messages-cyclist-who-rode-across-humber-bridge-282333?
“I showed up ready to ride across, at the ramp I was greeted by someone from security who said if you want to cross they expect you to use the main carriageway.
“So hopping over the barrier a little bit further up I did just that, half way across the bridge, a private security van caught up with me and by the end I reached the other side of the bridge I was being bothered by traffic police.
“They told me I should not have crossed, so naturally I explained how I came to cross over and then proceeded to ask what about people who bikes who commute to work? What is the Humber Bridge Board doing to secure their safety?”
Mr Lake, who in the video said he “wouldn’t recommend” crossing the bridge on the dual carriageway due to the gusts of wind he experienced while passing under its arches, added that he hopes the bridge will be reopened “sooner rather than later – I don’t want to be known as the last person to ride across it.”
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Doesn't show us the relevant section of his ride though!
That might have something to do this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51104340225_f3959c3c89.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRV6Ue)RL Comments (https://flic.kr/p/2kRV6Ue) by
Al (https://www.flickr.com/photos/highy/), on Flickr
Which explains this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51103338797_2c66fc7201.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kRPYde)RL Track.jpg# (https://flic.kr/p/2kRPYde) by Al (https://www.flickr.com/photos/highy/), on Flickr
Which involves crossing a tensioned wire rope barrier between the live carriageways. Which might explain why the traffic police were a little annoyed.
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Yes....
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Well written letter from CUK asking Humber bridge authority some searching questions.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/cycling-uk-responds-closure-humber-bridge-cyclists-and-pedestrians (https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/cycling-uk-responds-closure-humber-bridge-cyclists-and-pedestrians)
I would be very surprised if the bridge authority have any data on cycling/pedestrian traffic volume.
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I've not looked at the CUK website for a long time but my first thoughts, after following that link ^, were crayons, 5 year olds.
On the subject of bridge use by cyclists, 30-50 ride over it early on a Saturday morning once a year on my favourite FNRttC*.
*I haven't done them all. Yet.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
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The ferry service stopped on the very day the bridge was opened.
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That was a larger ferry I think, that took a few cars too.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
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I think this is their way of highlighting their concerns and trying to get the funding from other authorities. I don't think they're cynical, just desperate.
This looks likely. The current railing is low and easy to climb. A higher railing constructed appropriately would really help.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There's also supposed to have been a Roman ford across the Severn estuary, approximately where there are two villages called Purton on opposite banks (just upstream from Sharpness). It's hard to believe it was ever possible to walk across without sinking in the mud.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
Worth noting that the location of the Roman ford (Ermine St) is pretty obvious, and somewhat further upstream. Direct continuation of the Roman A15.
(https://i.ibb.co/L0gXMFk/image.png) (https://ibb.co/mRyVmjD)
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I have no idea what the solution is, but the one employed on the Hownsgill Viaduct (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hownsgill_Viaduct#/media/File:Hownsgill_Viaduct_with_its_anti-suicide_fence,_31_March_2014.jpg) near here is hideous. Fboab and I cycled over there the other week (it's on the Waskerley Way cycle route) and the wind howling through the bars served to underline what an utterly tragic place it's become, and it's a really sad reflection on our world that these defences are even needed.
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The Hownsgill solution clearly isn't, if the floral tribute was anything to go by, last time we were there.
I don't think the problem is a bridge problem. It's a societal problem.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There's also supposed to have been a Roman ford across the Severn estuary, approximately where there are two villages called Purton on opposite banks (just upstream from Sharpness). It's hard to believe it was ever possible to walk across without sinking in the mud.
According to wikipedia, a 6ft 9in man walked across the Humber in 2005.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There were 2 ferries. The Tattershall Castle and the Lincoln Castle. One is a bar on the Thames near Charing Cross and the other used to also be a bar but in Grimsby.
We went to watch the bridge being built several times whilst it was under construction. I remember at Primary School we were allowed out of class to watch the Queen drive over it on its opening day.
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The Hownsgill solution clearly isn't, if the floral tribute was anything to go by, last time we were there.
Our local one had barriers put up in 2019 and I've not heard of anyone jumping since:
https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/local-council/mother-of-man-who-died-at-archway-bridge-ecstatic-as-3822058
(there are side barriers painted black that aren't obvious in that pic)
I don't think the problem is a bridge problem. It's a societal problem.
Having a well known local suicide hotspot tends to be an important nudge towards actioning bad thoughts.
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There were 2 ferries. The Tattershall Castle and the Lincoln Castle. One is a bar on the Thames near Charing Cross and the other used to also be a bar but in Grimsby.
There were 3 Castle Class Paddle Steamers, the other was the "PS Wingfield Castle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Wingfield_Castle)", built at the same time as "PS Tattershall Castle" and now preserved in Hartlepool.
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The Hownsgill solution clearly isn't, if the floral tribute was anything to go by, last time we were there.
Our local one had barriers put up in 2019 and I've not heard of anyone jumping since:
https://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/local-council/mother-of-man-who-died-at-archway-bridge-ecstatic-as-3822058
(there are side barriers painted black that aren't obvious in that pic)
I don't think the problem is a bridge problem. It's a societal problem.
Having a well known local suicide hotspot tends to be an important nudge towards actioning bad thoughts.
Highgate Archway has been used for suicides for the past century...
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There's also supposed to have been a Roman ford across the Severn estuary, approximately where there are two villages called Purton on opposite banks (just upstream from Sharpness). It's hard to believe it was ever possible to walk across without sinking in the mud.
According to wikipedia, a 6ft 9in man walked across the Humber in 2005.
ISTR this appearing in an episode of T** G*** wherein the pedestrian was pitted against The Hamster going the long way round.
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I've not looked at the CUK website for a long time but my first thoughts, after following that link ^, were crayons, 5 year olds.
On the subject of bridge use by cyclists, 30-50 ride over it early on a Saturday morning once a year on my favourite FNRttC*.
*I haven't done them all. Yet.
Like this
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Rn-rZq1yP0NZ1NG26ENLFjNj7zOi55fgg90qAYy6q0L-IplkkADRDZ-0TDCFgkJB5KlvlRidcqkrhlqE9pzBEKrLs-D2tK3mae_FAESKGIxBiC9-96qTlEz86v08zT_SzI6Ki3gPRxw=w2400)
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There's also supposed to have been a Roman ford across the Severn estuary, approximately where there are two villages called Purton on opposite banks (just upstream from Sharpness). It's hard to believe it was ever possible to walk across without sinking in the mud.
According to wikipedia, a 6ft 9in man walked across the Humber in 2005.
ISTR this appearing in an episode of T** G*** wherein the pedestrian was pitted against The Hamster going the long way round.
I believe it was James May and I think he was driving an Alfa.
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<Snippety-Snip>
Blimey! There's a few blasts from the past in that crowd.
Is that Mistral standing next to Olaf Storbeck?
Whatever happened to him?
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Some enterprising local with a small boat could start a ferry service.
The only time I took the ferry, its days were numbered - the bridge was under construction.
I took my bike across the bridge before it was officially opened. The cycle/walkways were opened for a day one sunny Sunday and the population of Hull took the opportunity to have a day out and get a closer look at the sunlit uplands of Lincolnshire. They were too crowded for me to cycle so I pushed my laden bike all the way to Barton.
In Roman time there was supposed to have been a ford.
There's also supposed to have been a Roman ford across the Severn estuary, approximately where there are two villages called Purton on opposite banks (just upstream from Sharpness). It's hard to believe it was ever possible to walk across without sinking in the mud.
According to wikipedia, a 6ft 9in man walked across the Humber in 2005.
ISTR this appearing in an episode of T** G*** wherein the pedestrian was pitted against The Hamster going the long way round.
I believe it was James May and I think he was driving an Alfa.
I stand slump corrected :thumbsup:
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https://road.cc/content/news/humber-bridge-walkways-reopen-tomorrow-283089
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Does anyone know if there has been any more recent changes to the Humber Bridge cycling policy? I'm planning a ride and hope to get there before 9pm, but if I get delayed, am I stuffed?
Any bike-friendly places to stay in Barton-on-Humber?