Fare dodging: have you ever done it and is it ever acceptable?

[Polar Bear]

I'll start.

A few years back we were up near Fort William and wanted to catch the train out from Banavie to Arisaig for a day trip.  It is a "pay at seat" service once out of Fort William.

When the guard came round I presented my disabled Railcard and asked for two adult returns to Arisaig.  He looked at my Railcard and ran away.  I pursued him but he locked himself in his cabin.

We alighted at Arisaig, had a pleasant few hours walking and in the cafe then caught the return.

Same guard, same routine.  He simply didn't want to know for some reason.

So yes, we travelled free on that particular day. 

[PaulF]

You really should get the picture changed on your railcard

Closest I’ve had is when the machine hasn’t worked and the bus driver has just waved me on. But like your experience I didn’t set out to avoid the fare so I don’t think it counts.

Is it acceptable? To me it’s akin to theft and not a victimless crime as the other passengers end up subsidising the fare dodger. I’m sure someone can concoct a scenario that justifies it but to me it’s not.

[Jurek]

I've never fare dodged, accidentally or otherwise.
It's little different to shoplifting in my view.
I have a 10 minute wait to catch a connecting train at Tottenham Hale on my way in to work.
You can spot the fare dodgers before they've done the deed from a mile off.
Anyone who's not dodging their fare will have something (ticket/oyster card/phone) in their hand as they approach the gate.
The dodgers will not. They may have both hands in their pockets. They will walk uncomfortably close to the person in front  with the intention of tailgating them as they go through the gate.
I'm at TH just before 07:00 so it is quite busy. In that 10 minute period, most days I'll see 5 or 6 people go through the gates without producing anything which gives them authority to travel. The gates are staffed by 6 or more people, but none of them ever say anything to any of the dodgers - but then again, who would? You'd not really want to get stabbed over a £6.50 train fare.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

When I was very young, 11 or 12, I suspect I may have dodged the fare on my bus to school.  The conductor used to come round with his machine , but if you raced up the stairs to the top deck he might miss you when he came round.  Quite often a ticket inspector joined the bus - we used to call him 'Keen Eric' - he was a nice guy really and only used to make us pay what we should have done.  However, even back then I liked a walk so I used walk as far as possible to save a penny for sweets.  A few times in nice weather I walked the whole 8 miles home and on Saturdays we were allowed to cycle the eight miles.  We even cadged lifts on electric milk floats now and then. 

Of course it is totally unacceptable except when it isn't.

[Regulator]

You really should get the picture changed on your railcard

Closest I’ve had is when the machine hasn’t worked and the bus driver has just waved me on. But like your experience I didn’t set out to avoid the fare so I don’t think it counts.

Is it acceptable? To me it’s akin to theft and not a victimless crime as the other passengers end up subsidising the fare dodger. I’m sure someone can concoct a scenario that justifies it but to me it’s not.

I've had that a few times.  As with you, I don't see that as fare-dodging as I was willing to pay.

Generally, I get annoyed with fare-dodging... but I also get annoyed with the moves by rail operators to get rid of station staff - which will just increase fare-dodging.

[Legs]

25 years or so ago, my mate Dave and I would go out riding our bikes and would often catch the train back home from Liss, Liphook or Haslemere by taking advantage of the Permit To Travel machines in operation there.  Not bad for 5p a time, and I'm not sure we ever had to pay up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permit_to_travel

[Regulator]

25 years or so ago, my mate Dave and I would go out riding our bikes and would often catch the train back home from Liss, Liphook or Haslemere by taking advantage of the Permit To Travel machines in operation there.  Not bad for 5p a time, and I'm not sure we ever had to pay up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permit_to_travel

I remember those being introduced.  Our station (Purfleet) was one of the first to get a PERTIS machine, as it was only manned part-time (at rush hour).

[Kim]

Not deliberately.

Certainly there have been pay-on-board occasions where the guard hasn't turned up.

And I'm sure I've done a couple of journeys on an expired season ticket that wasn't properly scrutinised before realising.

And there was that time that I found myself within the field of rower40's Psychic Paper...

[gibbo]

When I was very young, 11 or 12, I suspect I may have dodged the fare on my bus to school.  The conductor used to come round with his machine , but if you raced up the stairs to the top deck he might miss you when he came round.  Quite often a ticket inspector joined the bus - we used to call him 'Keen Eric' - he was a nice guy really and only used to make us pay what we should have done.  However, even back then I liked a walk so I used walk as far as possible to save a penny for sweets.  A few times in nice weather I walked the whole 8 miles home and on Saturdays we were allowed to cycle the eight miles.  We even cadged lifts on electric milk floats now and then. 

Of course it is totally unacceptable except when it isn't.

This reminds me of what happened to me when I was around that age. My younger sister and I used to bus into school and I usually had the money so I'd pay for both of us, except on one occasion, when the system got messed up and we both jumped on the bus saying my brother's/ sister's paying. Once we alighted we realised that neither of us had paid so straight to the corner shop it was. Bonus, since neither of us used to get pocket money (was spent on bus fare  )

I recall telling some mates about and they tried it too, and got away with it. However, one day the driver comes down the bus to inspect the tickets. Myself and sis had paid, so no worries, but some of the others hadn't and got busted. That was enough for me not to try it again.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yes and no, respectively.

The yes refers to a few months spent in a suburb of Paris as a student. I soon realised that virtually none of the other students were buying tickets on the RER, as indeed many of the non-students, so I stopped too. They had inspectors who would come round but the trains were so crowded you had to be unlucky to get caught. I never was, but always felt guilty.

Far more recently, but still over a decade ago, I had the following conversation on a Bristol suburban train:
"One adult, one child to Stapleton Road, please."
"Is he under five?"
"Yes, he's almost seven."
"Let me try again. Is [nod] he [nod] under [nod] five?"

As you can imagine, an almost seven-year-old was outraged at being classed "under five"! We later (much later, he was 11) had a similar experience on the London Underground when I literally had no idea how to buy a child ticket; at that time (don't know about now) it was free up to 10 y.o. then a child fare till 16 (or 15 or 17 or something). Machines didn't sell such tickets, there was a window but closed, this was before tapping, but there were staff hanging around who said "He's ten, he goes free."

[T42]

Once did Edinburgh-London in first class on a second-class ticket. Not exactly deliberately, but second class was crowded old carriages and first wasn't.  Never saw an inspector.

Yes and no, respectively.

The yes refers to a few months spent in a suburb of Paris as a student. I soon realised that virtually none of the other students were buying tickets on the RER, as indeed many of the non-students, so I stopped too. They had inspectors who would come round but the trains were so crowded you had to be unlucky to get caught. I never was, but always felt guilty.

I used to have a colleague who calculated the odds of being inspected on the RER to be about 1:20. She then reckoned that the monthly cost of the fine would be less than a monthly season ticket, so she stopped buying them.  She was then caught three times in one week and done as a habitual offender.

[Wowbagger]

When I used to do the FNRttC, I often travelled for very little.

My local station, Prittlewell, had a “permit to travel” dispenser rather than a ticket machine. Any coin would do, so I used to put a coin in- usually a 5p or 10p - and I would receive a small slip of sticky-backed paper with the amount I had paid displayed on it. That permitted me to travel legally. If a ticket seller were on the train, I would buy a single ticket and whatever I had put in the machine would be deducted from the full price.

More commonly, I would be on an almost deserted train arriving in Lpoo St at about 11pm on a Friday. The place was invariably full of inebriated city workers all hoping to get home without throwing up, and the train operating company’s method of dealing with this was simply to open all the barriers and let people walk on with, as Jurek mentions, few staff around to be the butt of inebriate ribaldry or worse. For me to have converted my Permit to Travel to a full ticket would have involved running the gauntlet of these crowds, encumbered by a bicycle, to find an understaffed ticket office. So I didn’t.

[John Stonebridge]

Like most anti social behaviour its never acceptable but some will seek to justify it. 

I did it occasionally when I was a student travelling Falkirk - Edinburgh on the train.   

The introduction of automatic ticket barriers has presumably reduced the issue substantially but not entirely for train travel.  I'm sure I read somewhere that automatic barriers started being installed at big stations (London Waterloo 1st iirc?) and the roll out continued until it stopped paying for itself.  It ended up that even in relatively small stations the cost of implementation was justified such was the extent of fare dodging.     

My rail travel these days tends to be Haymarket - Falkirk High and the latter doesn't have barriers which always surprises me given that its on the Edin - Glasgow express and is fairly sizeable.  On my last visit there was a group of Scotrail staff doing manual checks - first time in ages I can remember such a thing. 

.   

[John Stonebridge]

Yes and no, respectively.

The yes refers to a few months spent in a suburb of Paris as a student. I soon realised that virtually none of the other students were buying tickets on the RER, as indeed many of the non-students, so I stopped too. They had inspectors who would come round but the trains were so crowded you had to be unlucky to get caught. I never was, but always felt guilty.

Far more recently, but still over a decade ago, I had the following conversation on a Bristol suburban train:
"One adult, one child to Stapleton Road, please."
"Is he under five?"
"Yes, he's almost seven."
"Let me try again. Is [nod] he [nod] under [nod] five?"

As you can imagine, an almost seven-year-old was outraged at being classed "under five"! We later (much later, he was 11) had a similar experience on the London Underground when I literally had no idea how to buy a child ticket; at that time (don't know about now) it was free up to 10 y.o. then a child fare till 16 (or 15 or 17 or something). Machines didn't sell such tickets, there was a window but closed, this was before tapping, but there were staff hanging around who said "He's ten, he goes free."

That reminds me of being told to "sit wee" by my mum when I was maybe 6 or 7.   

[mcshroom]

As a student I found that standing on the front of the Transpennine Express train from Sheffield Midland to Meadowhall station meant that usually you arrived and got off the train before the guard could get to you to sell you a ticket. Most of the time I had a season ticket but I will admit I dodged a few fares that way. In my head I justified it by having the money there if they asked for it but it wasn't acceptable though.

I also caught a GWR train on tickets for the wrong day once. In that case it was the mistake of our company travel team. The guard was very relaxed about it but could have charged us a fortune for walk up fares if he'd wanted to.

[Polar Bear]

I do know an accountant who was sacked for fare dodging. 

It hurt their career significantly.

[lissotriton]

I once tried buying a bus ticket in Wales, with a Scottish ten pound note. The driver let me on for free anyway.

[Mr Larrington]

A former cow-orker used never to have a ticket on his Billericay<->Londonton commute, reckoning it was cheaper to pay the fine on the rare occasions he got nabbed than to cough up in the accepted manner.

[fimm]

My local station is unstaffed, but has ticket machines. It is the last station before you get to Waverley. and I think most if not all of the other stations on the line are similarly unstaffed. When you get to Waverley, there usually are no barriers, but in rush hour there are ticket checks and if you don't already have a ticket you can buy one, and you just say where you have come from.
Occasionally there are railway staff at my station who will insist on selling you a ticket before you get on to the platform. When I asked why, it was explained that if anyone attempted to claim that they had only travelled from there, they would be done for fare dodging, as no-one who got on that train at that station would be without a ticket.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

I do know an accountant who was sacked for fare dodging. 

It hurt their career significantly.

A good accountant is one that always gets away with their misdeeds?

[rogerzilla]

Three Scousers and three Mancs are travelling by train to a football match in London. At the station, the three Mancs each buy a ticket and watch as the three Scousers buy just one ticket between them.
"How are the three of you going to travel on only one ticket?" asks one of the Mancs.
"Watch and leam," answers one of the Scousers.
They all board the train. The Mancs take their respective seats but all three Scousers cram into a toilet and close the door behind them. Shortly after the train has departed, the conductor arrives to collect the tickets. He knocks on the toilet door and says, "Ticket please."
The door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on. The Mancs are mightily impressed by this, so after the game, they decide to copy the Scousers on the return trip and save some money. When they get to the station, they buy a single ticket for the return trip... To their astonishment, the Scousers don't buy a ticket at all!
"How are you going to travel without a ticket?" asks one perplexed Mancunian.
"Watch and leam..." says one Scouser.
When they board the train the three Mancs cram into a toilet and soon after the three Scousers pile into another nearby. The train departs. Shortly afterwards, one of the Scousers leaves the toilet and sneaks across to the toilet where the Mancs are hiding. He knocks on the door and says, "Ticket please..."

[mrcharly-YHT]

I used to commute York to London regularly. 6 AM train out of york, Saver ticket.

Then they changed it, you could only use full fare on the 6am.

However; a return Saver was valid.

Next time down in london, I bought a Saver return at KX. The following morning, used the return portion on the 6am and the outward portion in the evening.

Not exactly fare dodging, but using a cheaper fare.

[Nuncio]

A friend recently thought he'd got away with a free bus ride in Manchester when the driver said he couldn't change his £20 note but told to take a seat anyway. Except shortly into the ride the bus stopped outside a newsagent and the driver told him he'd wait while he went in to buy a Mars bar and get some change.

[robgul]

I used to commute York to London regularly. 6 AM train out of york, Saver ticket.

Then they changed it, you could only use full fare on the 6am.

However; a return Saver was valid.

Next time down in london, I bought a Saver return at KX. The following morning, used the return portion on the 6am and the outward portion in the evening.

Not exactly fare dodging, but using a cheaper fare.

I did exactly that when I used to travel back and forth to London from either Swindon or Birmingham 2 or 3 times a week - worked a treat to save cash.

[Feanor]

I've always been slightly surprised how the ticket inspectors work on the LNER services.

These are long Azuma trains, running from Aberdeen down (or 'up', if you prefer in railway-language!) to London, and beyond.
The train makes reasonably frequent stops in Scotland, before zooming down to York and then London.

The inspector will walk through the carriage, shouting 'any tickets from Montrose, or Arbroath?'
If you have joined the train at those last two stops, you offer up your tickets.
Otherwise, you just look away.
Can these guys really have such good facial memory that they can glance at all the look-away-ers on a train that size,and think 'Oh, yea. I remember them. They got on at Stonehaven. I got them already.'?

I suppose they rely on honesty and ticket barriers at the main stations.