Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: chrisbainbridge on 07 July, 2017, 10:59:43 am
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http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/bicycle-fairing-50204/ (http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/bicycle-fairing-50204/)
Anybody considered doing this for long distance rides?
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Recumbentizers have been doing it for decades. On road bikes intended for competition, the UCI surely says no. It could benefit tourists except they generally value other things over speed and distance covered. Commuters might like it too, especially in the winter.
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I would not ride a bike like this in the Fens with a strong crosswind!
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What the hell is happening to cycling as a physical sport/pastime/hobby/interest ?
Disc brakes and electric assistance and now fairings - what next - bloody wings to take off and follow the helicopters ?
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What the hell is happening to cycling as a physical sport/pastime/hobby/interest ?
Disc brakes and electric assistance and now fairings - what next - bloody wings to take off and follow the helicopters ?
In a leisure group I rode with in the 80's a guy had one of those fairings. Despite all the jokes about "cheating" it was his wheel everyone tried to get onto.
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I've always rather liked the aesthetics of the partially-faired spaceframe Moultons, but fairings are generally the domain of the beard-and-sandals nerdy recumbentists (not that this is a bad thing - many of my best friends etc. etc.)
But then it's not like aforementioned recumbentists have it any easier; to coin a phrase, they just go faster...
(As an aside, the Sikorsky-Prize-winning human-powered helicopter was chuffing amazing as an engineering project, and required a fairly handy cyclist to provide the power...)
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What the hell is happening to cycling as a physical sport/pastime/hobby/interest ?
Disc brakes and electric assistance and now fairings - what next - bloody wings to take off and follow the helicopters ?
I presume you ride a hobby-horse, and feel that an ordinary takes technical developments that little bit too far.
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Clickbait.
There is nothing actually new in any of this (with the possible recent inception of using microprocessors to move your derailleurs). I'm sure in the 200 or so years people have been riding from hobby horses onwards everything has been tried, tested, improved, given up as a bad idea etc.
Now though if it's not on the internet it hasn't been invented or given up as a bad idea. The press do it all the time to us but there are no longer great striding leaps to invent something. You just take an old idea, stick it on the internet and find an online magazine with a slot in it's bandwidth.
There is a definite shift from many cycle manufacturers to ignore UCI rules for bikes that are never going to be raced which hasn't really happened before but that is just progress, cars used to be sold on motor sport but the average driver doesn't want a racing car. The same thing is happening with bikes so some ideas previously given up are being thought of again and it's down to the bike rider to decide if it's any good.
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Aerodynamics 101: A rear fairing is more effective than a front. It's about shedding vortices, rather than cutting through the air. Bonus points for one that can be used to carry Stuff.
In the non-HPV-racing-world front fairings are mostly for the benefit of the rider: Warm, dry feet sort of thing. Seems perfectly reasonable to want to keep your hands warm and the rain off your face on an upright.
On the gripping hand, the main advantage of uprights is that they're simple, manoeuvrable and lightweight. UCI issues aside, if you're going to go around bolting things on to make it make it more areo, why not do it properly and start with the main problem, which is the position of the rider?
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Mike Burrows was trying a similar fairing in the 80's. :P
I did similar nose and tail fairings as a design project, only included some load carrying capacity (enough for spare tube & tools, phone, wallet, keys, etc.) and integral lights, when I did a design course. :smug:
Using a cardboard mockup, there seemed to be noticeable aerodymanic improvements, but in the evaluation part of my design exercise, I wrote something about it being unlikely to catch on as it would not be allowed for competitive cycling and many cyclists wanted to emulate competitive ones...
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when I was at school(*) one of my contemporaries designed and built a half-fairing for a racing bike.
What was created was imperfect, being heavy, noisy, looking like a kicked-in plastic dustbin, and potentially lethal in a crosswind etc but even so it did provide an aerodynamic benefit most of the time.
I think that Zzipper have offered fairings for bikes (including DF bikes) at least since the 1980s.
(*) which means it was (ahem) about four decades ago now.... :-[ :(
cheers
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Before the Transcontinental last year I looked into the idea of fairings.
There are a couple of models available. However, during the research stage, I realised that a key drawback was that they would reduce heat loss, which would be a problem in southern Europe in August.
Kim's point is interesting though, I was only looking at front fairings and the same heat issues would not apply with something on the back.
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I don't think I've ever seen a tail fairing on an upright... In the absence of a seat, coupling it closely to the rider might be an issue (body sock?), and I expect it could get interesting in a crosswind.
IME a recumbent seat has a noticeable effect on how much heat the rider dissipates, though a pure fairing with some space inside it could allow for a bit more air circulation than mesh or Ventisit.
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Seat fairings have been tried.
(http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/fignon_hr-620x402.jpg)
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And promptly banned.
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How do velomobiles do regarding heat dissipation; do any of them include air vents and the like? I wonder whether one could use some cunning boundary layer bleed ducting to maintain laminar flow and cool the occupant.
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On the Celtic Knot on the evening of the first day. John in his velo was still in his tshirt and shorts. Myself (on a recumbent) and John Sabine(upright) had by the same point put our night layers on. Velos are warm.
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How do velomobiles do regarding heat dissipation; do any of them include air vents and the like? I wonder whether one could use some cunning boundary layer bleed ducting to maintain laminar flow and cool the occupant.
Usual approach is a big hole under the pedals, which doubles as the reverse gear. That's fine until a prolonged climb.
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I wonder whether one could use some cunning boundary layer bleed ducting to maintain laminar flow and cool the occupant.
For those who are minded, a standard NACA submerged inlet duct does the trick. You'll see them on quite a few streamliners and some velomobiles, usually placed in a high pressure area and optimally in an area where the surface boundary layer is well attached, such as just in front of the windscreen or visor. The trick is to find a position that is good aerodynamically but also good against inclement weather, which might otherwise pour onto your chest.
For the rest of us, it's as Kim said; big foot holes in the floor, or a small fan attached to the boom. Prolonged climbs in spring, summer and autumn can get very warm.
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And promptly banned.
On the grounds of being too ugly, I hope.
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On the Celtic Knot on the evening of the first day. John in his velo was still in his tshirt and shorts. Myself (on a recumbent) and John Sabine(upright) had by the same point put our night layers on. Velos are warm.
It wasn't a cold night, mind.
I'd been in a short sleeve jersey all day, with arm warmers up and down like [insert simile of choice], and 'night layers' was just a l/s jersey over the top.
Mr O'Sullivan did look rather warm, though.
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I think that Zzipper have offered fairings for bikes (including DF bikes) at least since the 1980s.
I saw the bikeradar article via Farcebok the other day and fell about laughing when they tried to present this as "new". Glenn Brown was selling Zzipper fairings for upright bikes in the 1970s.
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UCI issues aside, if you're going to go around bolting things on to make it make it more areo, why not do it properly and start with the main problem, which is the position of the rider?
You can do something about the rider’s position without even changing the bicycle or bolting on fairings: the racing crouch.
Failing to do this properly is the thing that surprises me the most about the cyclists I ride with. They have fancy bicycles with aero wheels but they don’t get low enough, even when speeds wind up over 50 km/h. It’s pitiful to watch a strong man push the pedals with unfathomable force and go nowhere because he’s sat up at 45 degrees. The draft behind these guys is enough to asphyxiate you.
Something I notice about Froome, because I do the same thing, is that he gets low every time he pushes the pedals, even if he’s just narrowing the gap from 2 m to 1 m with a three-second effort. This photo (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/976/cpsprodpb/F024/production/_96867416_cycling_tour_getty.jpg) is typical: he’s the tallest man and yet has the lowest back and the lowest head.
Judging by the people I see on the roads, there aren’t many cyclists who wouldn’t benefit from getting their torso down a bit. Perhaps worry about fairings (and aero wheels, etc.) after picking this low-hanging fruit.
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To be fair to the writer, he did say:
None of this thinking is new of course, take a look at Zzipper Road Fairings, from Davenport, California. It has been producing and selling fairings for bicycles of all kinds since the early eighties.
I think that with the new e-bike craze we may well see more front fairings. I think the rear fairing pictured would not work for most riders, anyone with a saddle bag would disrupt the working and those who ride without would probably not use non-UCI stuff.
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I doubt if a racing crouch is as aerodynamic as a well designed fairing, simply because it's still a human body, however low you make it. Also, it's hard and uncomfortable to sustain unless you're young and flexible. And it's not too good in traffic. But it is, of course, free and weightless and instantly reversible. I normally ride on the hoods but move to the drops in headwinds or downhill – this is not a racing crouch but does offer a bit less wind resistance – and do notice how some riders seem to never use the drops. But they might not need to, being strong enough into headwinds without it.
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I don't think I've ever seen a tail fairing on an upright... In the absence of a seat, coupling it closely to the rider might be an issue (body sock?), and I expect it could get interesting in a crosswind.
I kind of think that the back end of an upright rider is reasonably aero already, the curve of the back gradually sweeping down should maintain some sort of flow.
One challenge is luggage. The apidura-style saddle packs currently in vogue for the TCR, etc stick out backwards a long way and would block off any airflow attaching to the rider's back. I've not seen any attempt to test this, but, with this in mind, I've tried to go for luggage that projects back as little as possible behind the saddle.
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I've often thought that a small fairing made to fit fairly closely round a 'bar bag might have a number of benefits:
- keep bag & contents dry
- protect route sheet/map/gps
- keep hands warm & dry
- as well as possibly improving overall aerodynamics.
Not easy to make at home, though?
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Judging by the people I see on the roads, there aren’t many cyclists who wouldn’t benefit from getting their torso down a bit. Perhaps worry about fairings (and aero wheels, etc.) after picking this low-hanging fruit.
Judging by the way the bike industry has stretched the head tubes of their race bikes until they became another sub category of bike ("endurance") lots of cyclists on the road are too inflexible or insufficiently strong to get into a racing crouch. I know that having changed my bike from an extreme 80s one to an "endurance" model my neck still works following a ride. If I spend all ride in the drops trying to be aero then it hurts! If a fairing is "free" speed then I can see how they would be appealing. Let's face it, cycling is a sport/passtime where a huge number of people are on bikes that are significantly more capable than they are (I count myself among this number)...
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I doubt if a racing crouch is as aerodynamic as a well designed fairing, simply because it's still a human body, however low you make it. Also, it's hard and uncomfortable to sustain unless you're young and flexible. And it's not too good in traffic. But it is, of course, free and weightless and instantly reversible. I normally ride on the hoods but move to the drops in headwinds or downhill – this is not a racing crouch but does offer a bit less wind resistance – and do notice how some riders seem to never use the drops. But they might not need to, being strong enough into headwinds without it.
It is all about the shape and the frontal area.
So getting low and streamlined makes a massive difference. Much more than fancy wheels or frames. This has been measured in a wind tunnel.
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I've often thought that a small fairing made to fit fairly closely round a 'bar bag might have a number of benefits:- keep bag & contents dry
- protect route sheet/map/gps
- keep hands warm & dry
- as well as possibly improving overall aerodynamics.
Not easy to make at home, though?
Bicycling quarterly tested that option when they looked at aerodynamics of everyday bikes recently (on phone so can't find link). It only works if you hold an aero tuck. If your head is not right by the bar bag it is no benefit.
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And promptly banned.
On the grounds of being too ugly, I hope.
There was a commercially available lumbar support/ fairing from Selle Italia. The shop I worked in as a youngster had one in stock but I couldn't afford it, even at trade price.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f1/8c/be/f18cbebf18ec45333aac5f7ff4e6dc07.jpg
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LWaB's piccie
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f1/8c/be/f18cbebf18ec45333aac5f7ff4e6dc07.jpg)
presumably the rider might look as if they were being bitten on the bum by a large goose.
FWIW that will surely help a bit but the angles are all wrong; the flow is certain to become detached under a wide range of conditions.
cheers
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Aerodynamics 101: A rear fairing is more effective than a front. It's about shedding vortices, rather than cutting through the air. Bonus points for one that can be used to carry Stuff.
In the non-HPV-racing-world front fairings are mostly for the benefit of the rider: Warm, dry feet sort of thing. Seems perfectly reasonable to want to keep your hands warm and the rain off your face on an upright.
On the gripping hand, the main advantage of uprights is that they're simple, manoeuvrable and lightweight. UCI issues aside, if you're going to go around bolting things on to make it make it more areo, why not do it properly and start with the main problem, which is the position of the rider?
Does a handlebar type fairing make much difference to comfort or speed on a ' bent? I'mean thinking something that covers as far as the ankle of the back leg and the knee of the front one.
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What the hell is happening to cycling as a physical sport/pastime/hobby/interest ?
Disc brakes and electric assistance and now fairings - what next - bloody wings to take off and follow the helicopters ?
;D It's progress.
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What the hell is happening to cycling as a physical sport/pastime/hobby/interest ?
Disc brakes and electric assistance and now fairings - what next - bloody wings to take off and follow the helicopters ?
I presume you ride a hobby-horse, and feel that an ordinary takes technical developments that little bit too far.
;D
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Not all rear fairings are created equal. This was a Belgian at a British Human Power race in 2012. It really didn't work out for him. In the end it was a parachute secured around his neck. It was brutally funny.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4313/36079749972_c9671fdf11_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WYf9EG) (https://flic.kr/p/WYf9EG) by jdp298 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdp298/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4328/36079756172_71ca6b59d5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WYfbvA) (https://flic.kr/p/WYfbvA) by jdp298 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdp298/), on Flickr