Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Tandems => Topic started by: PeterS on 28 April, 2012, 02:27:07 pm
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We bought 2 sets of Royce hubs for our tandem ( a spare set of wheels in case we needed them). The rear hub has now failed 3 times (pawls twice and cracked hub body once). After paying top dollar for quality hubs I'm starting to wonder if they are actually fit for purpose. They've never managed more than 1500 miles before failing, we are not that heavy (75kg and 60kg), all the miles have been 'dry'miles, we don't grind up hills in a big gear and when the latest one failed (yesterday) we were twiddling up a very modest hill, luckily only 4 miles from home. I've emailed Royce and am awaiting a reply. Apart from the inconvenience of breaking down and having to get home somehow we also have to wait weeks to get our hub back after sending it to Royce for repair. Do I chuck 2 hubs which I paid £400 for in the bin and buy something else?
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I would bin them , have had Hugi and Hope tandem hubs fail . Freehub and axle on Hugi, and flanges, axles, pawls and freehubs cracked on Hope. Made same mistake as you bought two sets of Hope. Now onto Phil Wood hubs for the tandem , they are heavy but look well made . Used last summer on a Cent Col rando , then into the Vercors about 2500km with camping gear. First time i have not had to strip a rear hub down on tour.
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The best value for money, in my humble opinion, is the Shimano HF08 or XT tandem hubs (I'm not sure whether or nor they are exactly the same). They are ugly, they are heavy, but they just do the job for much cheaper than any of the other hubs cited above! We are not a light tandem team (92+ 60 kg). We have a pair of these hubs for over 8000 km now. I repacked them with grease every winter, and they still ride like brand new hubs.
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I think riding style, and all-up weight contribute to the liklihood (or not) of hub failure. I'm not sure the quslity of rear wheel building affects hub life.
I have Swallow hubs on two of my tandems. The pair on the Swallow tandem have done some 20,000 miles, and the pair on the Claude Butler have done about 15,000 miles. The former used for heavy touring (cycle camping), and the Claude for long fast Fleche and similar rides. The bearings are press-fit and replaceable, though having regreased them once a year with decent grease so far the spare bearings are still unused.
The Sun Wasp is using Mavic solo hubs (36/36) carefully built, with Open 4 rims and 25mm tyres pumped up very hard. They've been used for racing (on the Claude) in the past, and having now covered some 8-10,000 miles.
Rider weights are 13 stone (me) and 10 1/2 stone (stoker), and we don't usually potter!
I do still have a spare pair of Swallow hubs - can't remember spoke count, but likely 40/40. If anyone's interested, let me know.
Does anyone know if Suzue tandem hubs are still around - just curious.
Chris
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Spoking pattern affects the flanges; 40h x4 is pretty normal and shouldn't stress the flanges too much.
The problem with some of these boutique hubs is that they're CNCed from billet, and you can't get such a strong shell as you can by cold-forging and then tidying up on a lathe. You need to be a big volume producer to afford a drop forge, though - which is why Shimano is nearly always the answer to "which hub?" unless you're talking about track hubs. If they put proper weather seals on Dura-Ace track hubs it would kill off Phil, Goldtec et al.
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We've just stripped another Hugi. The emergency bmx freewheel skipped constantly and wasn't really fit for purpose.
We're going to get something else, but what?
We're heavy, and powerful. Can anything cope with that?
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We're heavy (very heavy with camping load) and have a Deore XT which is managing well.
It has a disc rather than drum brake, though (we had the frame changed over when we got the respray).
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We've just had a new tandem hub although the issue with our old one was bearing-related rather than the freewheel. JD Tandems recommended a Hadley, which comes with a somewhat eye-watering price tag but apparently not too much history I trouble. We all see how it goes!
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I'd just go Shimano myself. They are quite reliable, fairly cheap and easily available. Most of the flashy hubs are unreliable and/or stupidly priced. Few teams blow apart Shimano hubs, especially given the number of Shimano tandem hubs out there.
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We've just stripped another Hugi. The emergency bmx freewheel skipped constantly and wasn't really fit for purpose.
We're going to get something else, but what?
We're heavy, and powerful. Can anything cope with that?
Call here
http://www.longstaffcycles.com/
on your way back to joglerville from Broken Cross.
Go via Congleton & where the A34 crosses over the A500 carry on the A34,turn right at 2nd roundabout(MacDonalds on the left of the r'bout),straight over the mini r'bout,turn right at next roundabout,second( I think) left onto Albert Street.
Speak to Bev. or Lance about the hub issue & don't drool on the floor where the tandems are on display ;D
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I see that on another forum you ARE drooling ;D
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Downhill MTB bikes now take 150mm wide hubs with a 12mm bolt through rear axle - i.e. rather than a weedy 5mm QR in a 9mm axle, the hub is hollow and you put a 12mm wide axle through the hub and screw it into the dropout on the other side - which is threaded.
Could something like this be used on a tandem? Would require changing your dropouts and getting the rear triangle spaced to 150mm.
edit: also available in 135mm, 12mm bolt through axle and 142mm wide. 3 different widths to choose! :)
All major MTB parts manufacturers make these types of hubs - Hope, Shimano, etc.
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Axles these days seldom fail, they are more than strong enough, Santana use 160mm OLN wheels, "Much stronger sir, no dish"
IMO they are a the work of stan, results in a high Q factor and low heel clearance for the stoker and awful chain-line, with difficulty adjusting the front mech due to-non standard chainwheel offset. Changing one thing affects another, the best approach as mentioned up thread to use volume parts designed for tandems. Of course Shimano 'aint that sexy and spending more must be better. -
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It has a 135 OLN cold set to 140. Even 145 is too stretched for the dropouts. That limits our options.
We're going to do something else.
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HK has a Shimano tandem hub trimmed down to 130 OLD on the back of her Audax tandem. It works fine but no chance to fit a drum brake on there now.
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Almost certainly not a solution for this topic, but it seems that the Thorn reinforcement of Rohloff hubs works OK. I would imagine that Mrs. Wow and I are the heaviest regular tandem pairing around, and we never stop grinding.
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I have a White Industries rear hub - not cheap, but we haven't broken it yet.
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We gave Hugi another chance on the new Longstaff tandem. It's lasted just over 2000km of autumn/winter randonneuring, but on a 200 today started making exactly the same noises as the same did on the Swallow (prior to it failing).
Clearly, these hubs are unsuitable for us - we are a heavy but strong team, and ride a lot of wet wintry miles.
We'll probably settle on either a Shimano Deore with a rotor adapter, or a HOPE:
http://www.tandems.co.uk/m11b0s32p331/HOPE-Tandem-Rear-Hub-6-Bolt-40-hole
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Thread resurrection.
Apparently we've broken another Shimano Hub. I don't know if they've changed something about them but this one was less two years old and probably hadn't done much over 1000 miles. ::-) The local tandem friendly bike shop reckon they are seeing this failure quite regularly (crack in the freehub body). I also note that Peter White are now recommending Phil Wood hubs for heavy touring due to this problem, although in this instance it probably occurred while we were unloaded (but doing lots of climbing).
We're not having the best luck with tandems at the moment.....
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Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that.
We have every sympathy for any tandem team having rear hub issues - given our experiences.
We still run a Hugi on the Longstaff. Yes, I know there are issues, and it's a less than convincing design - but I think I like the fact that it's serviceable at the roadside, should needs be.
I'm just starting to think about a lighter weight set of wheels for summer, and I'm mulling over which rear hub to use. I'm currently thinking along the lines of a Hope. There's something in that name that instills, well... Hope.
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Our Santana has a Hadley Racing hub on the rear. Not cheap but hasn't given us any problems (yet), unlike the Shimano hubs on the Thorn. The bikes tend to do very different types of miles though (which is why it's annoying that this hub broke while audaxing rather than touring).
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Thread resurrection.
Apparently we've broken another Shimano Hub. I don't know if they've changed something about them but this one was less two years old and probably hadn't done much over 1000 miles. ::-) The local tandem friendly bike shop reckon they are seeing this failure quite regularly (crack in the freehub body). I also note that Peter White are now recommending Phil Wood hubs for heavy touring due to this problem, although in this instance it probably occurred while we were unloaded (but doing lots of climbing).
We're not having the best luck with tandems at the moment.....
Am I misunderstanding something or is the freehub an easily replaced component? Much better than a broken hub body methinks.
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The freehub is fairly easy to replace, which is good. Still a pain though, and puts the bike out of action while the part arrives. We did about 100km after it started causing problems and didn't actually know what was causing it, but didn't really have any bail out options. There was play in the hub and the cassette had worked loose, and the freewheel was catching occasionally too. We checked the locknuts and re tightened the cassette after we noticed the wheel was wobbling all over the shop and although it helped, it didn't completely solve it.
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Spoking pattern affects the flanges; 40h x4 is pretty normal and shouldn't stress the flanges too much.
The problem with some of these boutique hubs is that they're CNCed from billet, and you can't get such a strong shell as you can by cold-forging and then tidying up on a lathe. You need to be a big volume producer to afford a drop forge, though - which is why Shimano is nearly always the answer to "which hub?" unless you're talking about track hubs. If they put proper weather seals on Dura-Ace track hubs it would kill off Phil, Goldtec et al.
Ah, yup. +1 I have used these for 40 spoke rear wheels under exceedingly heavy riders of single bikes, too. Moar spoks!!!!! Conservative wheels prescriber, moi??
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Ah, yup. +1 I have used these for 40 spoke rear wheels under exceedingly heavy riders of single bikes, too. Moar spoks!!!!! Conservative wheels prescriber, moi??
I have a 48 spoke rear on the tandem because they don't make 52 spoke rears.
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For the sake of reliability I considering a new rear tandem wheel for next spring.
We have been using Shimano HF08 (XT) tandem rear hubs but it seems they may be discontinued.
Having read about breakages on many brands of rear tandem hub (including Shimano) I am wondering if Phil Wood hubs might be the most reliable? I could live with the extra weight if they are stiffer. Does anyone have an opinion or experience with Phil Wood tandem hubs? What would you recommend? We need a 145mm axle, disc brake fitting, and use Shimano 9 speed cassettes.
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HF08 are certainly the best value for money, and although they might be discontinued, you can find some on Ebay in Usania.
They suffer from frequent failure of the rear axle, but the replacement part is very cheap, no more than 15 quids if I remind correctly, and the
broken axle is still rideable. (Yes, I speak from own experience...)
If you want something really reliable, but don't want to put that much money on the Phil Wood, try the White industries. We are very happy with ours. We never had any issue, except for a squealing ratchet mechanisms during all the second half of LEL. It was cured by a simple cleaning and oiling.
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HF08 are certainly the best value for money, and although they might be discontinued, you can find some on Ebay in Usania.
They suffer from frequent failure of the rear axle, but the replacement part is very cheap, no more than 15 quids if I remind correctly, and the
broken axle is still rideable. (Yes, I speak from own experience...)
We've not broken an axle on the HF08, but we have a spare in case. The lifespan of the axle due to fatigue failure can be improved by turning the axle around when servicing so the points of high stress are in a different place on the axle.
If you want something really reliable, but don't want to put that much money on the Phil Wood, try the White industries. We are very happy with ours. We never had any issue, except for a squealing ratchet mechanisms during all the second half of LEL. It was cured by a simple cleaning and oiling.
I've just had a quick look at the White Industries MI6 Tandem rear hub on their website. Looks nice. The integrated disc rotor fixture is probably lighter weight than a screw on adaptor, but that doe not allow for a single speed freewheel to be fitted in an emergency (i.e. if the freehub pawls fail). It also has the option for a Titanium freehub body.
Does anyone have any experience with Phil Wood or White Industries tandem hubs?
Thanks.
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The integrated disc rotor fixture is probably lighter weight than a screw on adaptor, but that doe not allow for a single speed freewheel to be fitted in an emergency (i.e. if the freehub pawls fail).
Do you really mean flipping the wheel over like on a single speed bike? I'm not sure you could do that on the roadside. Our previous rear wheel had such a screw on disc brake adaptor. The adaptor was so tightly screwed on that the only way to take it off was to clamp the adaptor in a bench vise, and use the wheel itself as a very long lever
It also has the option for a Titanium freehub body.
I am very tempted to say that spending hundreds of extra £££ for saving 80 grams on a tandem is silly, but that's an issue to be resolved between you and your accountant ;)
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Does anyone have any experience with Phil Wood or White Industries tandem hubs?
Hi
We have been using Phil wood hubs on our tandem, have to say they have not been that great our rear hub lasted about 4000 miles before developing a problem last November, trying to get them repaired seems to be the biggest problem as we are still waiting.
Our spare Phil Wood rear wheel has started to develop the same problem.
Have to say the shop dealing with it are doing there best but it seems that Phil Wood seem to be the problem.
We are looking at getting a new set of wheels but the biggest problem is what hubs to use, as I don't really have any faith in our present set.
Gavin
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What kind of problem did you experience, Gavos? It's a shame that such an expensive piece of kit lasts only 4000 miles. Hope it will be sorted out soon!
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The problem is with the ratchet ring, causing it to slip when you put it under
Load, they are having to replace bearings, paws and ratchet ring and the
Freebody.
Apparently it's the freebody that causes the problem
As I said my spare wheel is starting to do the same.
Been looking at the new hope tandem hubs, at least it would be easier to
Get repaired if needed.
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We started with a Phil Woods on our tandem, which came with the bike as built. We had a succession of odd noises (yes I know it would be a very unusual tandem if it didn't have them!) and ended up with the hub as a suspect. We disassembled what we could easily, greased and reassembled. We seem to have a problem with one of the pawls not engaging properly but we think that has been the case since it was new - we contacted Phil Woods and at the time (early this year) they said there was no authorised service agent in the UK although they were looking to appoint one.
We decided to splash out on a spare wheel from JD fitted with a Hope hub (and we dropped from 48 to 40 spokes). One factor in that decision was the good service reputation for Hope. We "retired" the Phil Wood after 8000 miles. It's still a serviceable spare, and maybe if they get a UK agent we will try to get the pawl fixed, but we can't be bothered to dismantle the wheel and send it to the USA. The Hope is going fine, now just over 2000 miles.
As well as audax we have done a 1000 mile camping trip each year (one on each wheel now), so the bike sees quite heavy loads.
Oh and the odd noises - we eventually traced a lot of the trouble to loose chainring bolts!
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Does anyone have any experience with Phil Wood or White Industries tandem hubs?
Hi
We have been using Phil wood hubs on our tandem, have to say they have not been that great our rear hub lasted about 4000 miles before developing a problem last November, trying to get them repaired seems to be the biggest problem as we are still waiting.
Our spare Phil Wood rear wheel has started to develop the same problem.
Have to say the shop dealing with it are doing there best but it seems that Phil Wood seem to be the problem.
We are looking at getting a new set of wheels but the biggest problem is what hubs to use, as I don't really have any faith in our present set.
Gavin
That's a pity. I'm now thinking that buying a less expensive hub and replacing the wheel more frequently might be the best way to achieve reliability.
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The integrated disc rotor fixture is probably lighter weight than a screw on adaptor, but that doe not allow for a single speed freewheel to be fitted in an emergency (i.e. if the freehub pawls fail).
Do you really mean flipping the wheel over like on a single speed bike? I'm not sure you could do that on the roadside. Our previous rear wheel had such a screw on disc brake adaptor. The adaptor was so tightly screwed on that the only way to take it off was to clamp the adaptor in a bench vise, and use the wheel itself as a very long lever
Yes, turning the wheel around and using a single speed freewheel fitted on the other side in event of a cassette pawl failure. I've not tried it myself but I have heard that screw on hub brake fittings can be unscrewed by three people pushing the tandem backwards with the brake pulled hard on (I would only try it if I did not have any other option). I was actually thinking of occasions in the summer when we might remove the disc (use just rim brakes) and fit a single speed freewheel in its place as a backup.
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We tried the freewhell flip on the Swallow, (that has/had self energising canti's, no discs, so easier to do)- had a BMX thing on the other side.
It Did Not Work.
We've had no trouble with the Hugi on the Longstaff, but it does get regularly serviced with super-spendy grease.
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We've just stripped another Hugi. The emergency bmx freewheel skipped constantly and wasn't really fit for purpose.
We're going to get something else, but what?
We're heavy, and powerful. Can anything cope with that?
We tried the freewhell flip on the Swallow, (that has/had self energising canti's, no discs, so easier to do)- had a BMX thing on the other side.
It Did Not Work.
We've had no trouble with the Hugi on the Longstaff, but it does get regularly serviced with super-spendy grease.
Interesting...
What model Hugi are you using on the Longstaff? What model Hugi did you have problems with previously? Is it the grease & servicing that has improved reliability or is there another factor? What grease are you using?
The problem you had with the single speed freewheel, do you think that was specific to the one you had or do you think that all single speed freewheels would not work as an emergency backup on a tandem? When you flipped the wheel did you adjust the rear mech to align the chain with the sprocket?
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They're both the same model - Hugi TD 145 OLN. They're no longer available; replaced I think by the DT Swiss 540s (http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/540-tandem-en) which appear to use the same Star Ratchet drive.
I'm pretty sure I've got on top of their rather demanding ways. It's all down to the servicing, and woe betide you should wash out all the Magic Grease. You absolutely must must must use their infeasibly expensive yet fetchingly pink grease (£15 for a thimble-sized pot, I kid you not) otherwise the ratchets will definitely fail in a depressingly short time.
My biggest mistake was to clean the cassette on the wheel. This allowed degreaser to get into the works, which removed all the infeasibly expensive yet fetchingly pink grease - and misery followed - twice with the Swallow, and I suspect close to once with the Longstaff. So I now remove the cassette to clean it - and never ever ever allow degreaser anywhere near the hub.
LW&B hates these hubs; I think he considers the Star Ratchet drive design fundamentally flawed, and I have some sympathy with that view. However - whilst yes, they may be flawed, and yes, they may fail suddenly and more frequently than other hubs, they are completely serviceable at the roadside. I have now learned how to strip and service the hub at the roadside; we carry a set of Star Ratchets and springs and a pot of infeasibly expensive yet fetchingly pink grease. The freewheel body pops off the wheel without having to take off the cassette, so there's no need to carry cassette removing tools - it's all pretty straightforward.
Having said all that - in our points chasing year, we had no problems at all with the Hugi on the Longstaff - despite some desperately industrial weather (axle deep floods, that kind of thing).
ETA: Oh. The single speed Get Out of Jail option. That was utter n00bery on my part. I didn't stop to check the size of the emergency freewheel. Needless to say, it was 1/8th - our chain 3/32... :facepalm:
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Had a Hugi clutch fail years ago and got new sprags from GL with deeper teeth and nickel plating not passivation - I used a mds plain bearing grease to lube for 1000's of trouble free K's until the hub flange tore along the perforations.. :-[
Are current fails the early model sprag clutches still around in older hubs, or replacement with the wrong part?
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They're both the same model - Hugi TD 145 OLN. They're no longer available; replaced I think by the DT Swiss 540s (http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/540-tandem-en) which appear to use the same Star Ratchet drive.
r.e. DT Swiss 540 tandem
http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/540-tandem-en (http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/540-tandem-en)
(http://www.dtswiss.com/CmsPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=2a833199-0679-44f2-82c1-e7ae1fee0f16)
http://www.dtswiss.com/Technology/Hub-technology (http://www.dtswiss.com/Technology/Hub-technology)
(http://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Images/Technology/Hub_240_Explosion_620x327px.jpg)
is that the same design ratchet as the Hugi TD?
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yes.
(I'm not an engineer, but it looks very like)
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I'm now thinking that buying a less expensive hub and replacing the wheel more frequently might be the best way to achieve reliability.
Has anyone got any experience with a ORBIT TANDEMS Tandem Rear Hub 6 Bolt?
http://www.tandems.co.uk/m11b0s32p87/ORBIT-TANDEMS-Tandem-Rear-Hub-6-Bolt-40-and-48-hole (http://www.tandems.co.uk/m11b0s32p87/ORBIT-TANDEMS-Tandem-Rear-Hub-6-Bolt-40-and-48-hole)
(http://www.tandems.co.uk/smsimg/1/87-158-main-comp14-1.jpg)
Is it likely to be reliable for 4000 miles survive lots of hill climbing?
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Having four 6001 bearings looks reasonably durable.
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Having four 6001 bearings looks reasonably durable.
I'm sure the bearings are fine, I'm more concerned about something breaking or the ratchets failing and leaving us stranded hundreds of miles from home.
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Having four 6001 bearings looks reasonably durable.
I'm sure the bearings are fine, I'm more concerned about something breaking or the ratchets failing and leaving us stranded hundreds of miles from home.
Thing is, tandems fail more often than solos in any case. If it's not the hub, you'll probably do something else at some point. As well as destroying hubs, we've broken a crank, damaged several chains, and blown a rear tyre so badly it couldn't be salvaged. What you need to be able to do (in true audax stylee) is be able to dig yourself out of a situation - and the Hugi does at least allow you to do that. Unless you snap the axle instead ;).
ETA: I forget snapped cables and broke a front mech.
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I don't trust the Hugi system (they simply shouldn't fail so easily) but have had good results with Shimano hubs. Others have different experiences but Shimano tandem hubs have been widely used, so might be expected to have the most failures reported.
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Having four 6001 bearings looks reasonably durable.
I'm sure the bearings are fine, I'm more concerned about something breaking or the ratchets failing and leaving us stranded hundreds of miles from home.
Thing is, tandems fail more often than solos in any case. If it's not the hub, you'll probably do something else at some point. As well as destroying hubs, we've broken a crank, damaged several chains, and blown a rear tyre so badly it couldn't be salvaged. What you need to be able to do (in true audax stylee) is be able to dig yourself out of a situation - and the Hugi does at least allow you to do that. Unless you snap the axle instead ;).
2 rear rims.
Just sayin'.
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Having four 6001 bearings looks reasonably durable.
I'm sure the bearings are fine, I'm more concerned about something breaking or the ratchets failing and leaving us stranded hundreds of miles from home.
Thing is, tandems fail more often than solos in any case. If it's not the hub, you'll probably do something else at some point. As well as destroying hubs, we've broken a crank, damaged several chains, and blown a rear tyre so badly it couldn't be salvaged. What you need to be able to do (in true audax stylee) is be able to dig yourself out of a situation - and the Hugi does at least allow you to do that. Unless you snap the axle instead ;).
2 rear rims.
Just sayin'.
Oh yes! And snapped numerous spokes!
Sheesh!
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Thing is, tandems fail more often than solos in any case. If it's not the hub, you'll probably do something else at some point.
Yep. We've had failures on the road but luckly nothing that's prevented us from finishing the ride & getting home thus far. Fortunately I spotted the fatigue fractures during maintenance at home before failure occurred (crank, hub flange, frame). I try to retire parts before they break, it's probably less expensive than the consequences of us being stranded, but it's getting increasingly difficuilt on a limited budget. Annoyingly I deferred a major overhaul/refit and a gear cable that was due to be replaced broke on Saturday (I was surprised to discover the spare cable was not in the toolkit) :facepalm:. It was tough terrain but we completed the ride and got home on 3 gears. The rear wheel was also making unhealthy noises so I really need to buy a replacement as our spare is in a poor state as well. I will be trying a different wheel builder as I have a difference of opinion with the one we have been using over spoke tension and we can't afford keep paying out for shipping costs to return the wheels.
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Shimano HF08 (XT) tandem rear hub with broken freehub body:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EhiDfpkcLbc/VKbS3KV2wsI/AAAAAAAAPcY/eWO4b3yMy24/s800/20150102155952%2520-%2520DSC06406.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rruw3QhQOMU/VKbS6IP0gVI/AAAAAAAAPcg/bl4Evowlueg/s800/20150102162210%2520-%2520DSC06422.JPG)
:'(
... so the quest for a new rear wheel has become much more urgent!
(I'll try and get an replacement freehub for this one as well)
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That looks like a perfectly sound rear wheel! If you don't know where to get the replacement parts that you need, ask JDTandems. They helped salvaging a similar hub on our tandem 2 years ago.
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Synergy rear hub dismantled to regrease...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LZjvrYeVRrU/VZTuHzyS9pI/AAAAAAAAPns/22I6H5UoctQ/s800/IMAG0255.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZQHXlN0oJdE/VZTuHRb-XbI/AAAAAAAAPnk/LXCIQRwng7E/s800/IMAG0259.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HSI2vKvFefM/VZTuF7elWTI/AAAAAAAAPnc/F1aXzUujgAw/s144/IMAG0256.jpg)
:-\
Looks like water got in, no grease on the seal and insufficient grease on the springs (could hear the springs creak as it was turned slowly which prompted the service). Not impressed by the condition of the pawls (I'm waiting for a response from the supplier), they are much smaller than the pawls in the Shimano XT tandem hub. It runs more smoothly with the new grease but the pawls still make a fairly loud clinking noise (the Shimano XT tandem hub was much quieter).
UPDATE (edit)...
It looks like the pawls weren't making contact along their full length. The fact that some pawls deformed more than others suggest that they did not engage together (manufacturing tolerance issue?). The pawls lasted another 80km before failing completely with very little warning. Probably they did not go back in the same positions when I serviced it so having originally deformed until they engaged together they then did not engage together after the service.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bMZ_OfJSMwA/VZeeHAUs-uI/AAAAAAAAPoQ/MEj-SLB91qE/s800/DSC_4227%252520-%252520Copy.JPG)
What hub should we try next?
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You must be very strong to bend the pawls like that ;D ;D
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Almost certainly not a solution for this topic, but it seems that the Thorn reinforcement of Rohloff hubs works OK. I would imagine that Mrs. Wow and I are the heaviest regular tandem pairing around, and we never stop grinding.
217 Kg (combined!) here... not that I'm boasting.
Need to get that back to 210.
Anyway, DT Swiss tandem hub is doing the job so far. Captain doesn't stand up for hills but I do so it's getting some hammer.