onewayticketbybike

[Martin]

something I've been meaning to do for a while and very much a work in progress; a self-help guide to one way trips on the continent; all mine have been c/o airlines but they can easily be adapted to rail / ferry.

please bung any routes you think may be interesting and you have ridden my way; I've got a few from Denmark to put up once I can finish thinking of something inspirational to write about NW Germany.

Alternative recommended accommodation options and tips about getting bikes on / off ferries, trains planes etc also welcome thanks

https://sites.google.com/site/onewayticketbybike/

[yoav]

Interesting read, thanks. A lot of the information I've already learnt, essentially by experience but it would be helpful for someone new to this. Our holiday last year was like this: train to London > Eurostar to Lille > 2 weeks touring in France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Holland > Home via Imuiden to Newcastle ferry.

Which reminds me, there are more North Sea ferries than 3: there's P&O Hull to Rotterdam as well the aforementioned Newcastle to Ijmuiden.

This year we're doing the 'fly with bike in cardboard box' thing and returning by Eurostar.

[Martin]

Thanks; I'll add the ferries (with hyperlinks when I can work out how)

what's the situation with bikes on trains in France after you leave Eurostar? my understanding is that they weren't allowed which is where European Bike Express saw a gap in the market.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

No bike booking needed for TER. Bookings needed for most TGVs, bikes banned on some TGVs.

[Pingu]

Which reminds me, there are more North Sea ferries than 3: there's P&O Hull to Rotterdam as well the aforementioned Newcastle to Ijmuiden.

And Hull to Zeebrugge.

[yoav]

Hull to Zeebrugge was mentioned in the OP's webpage so I didn't bother mentioning again. Bikes on trains are covered quite well here; http://www.seat61.com/bike-by-train.htm/

[Graeme]

This is a really useful resource, thank you. Living near Hull, I feel an adventure coming on.

[bhoot]

Very interesting read. Having ventured a few times to the continent (but no flying, we are ferry enthusiasts) I agree with much of what you have written.  A few points :

"I've visited the North Netherlands a few times and it's a gem! quiet rural lanes wide open skies and, a more relaxed way of life. Only problem is getting there! There are no flights or ferries from the UK so you have to start in Germany."  100% agree with the "gem" description, generally we really loved north and east Netherlands. There is though a flight from the UK - Flybe have a Southend to Groenigen route (no idea whether it is bike friendly as maybe it is a very small plane)

Having ridden from HvH to Berlin last year I don't 100% agree with your comments on German cycle routes and drivers. In 500 miles I think we only once encountered a driver who was aggressive to us (probably when we weren't using a cycle track, although 99% of his fellows had no problem). Generally I would rate the German drivers top of all the countries we have visited for politeness and consideration - many hang well back very patiently to make a safe overtake. We plotted a route with a mix of cycle routes and main(ish) roads - and were happy to cycle on roads with no tracks, but equally found many roads had adequate tracks and some had very nice new ones, so probably an evolving and improving situation. I agree about tracks through villages, but we watched what the locals did and just went onto the road, although there were sometimes some fiddly crossing back and forth issues.

+1 for Stayokay hostels - although be aware that most (all?) don't have self catering kitchens, but they do have nice bars. We used German hostels last year which were more traditional, and usually full of school children (at least in Sept), but we were made very welcome and there was undercover bike accommodation everywhere. As with Stayokays, breakfast included, but evening meals too early if doing long days.

It would be so good to be able to put Harwich-Esbjerg back on the list. We managed to get a trip the last year it ran (thanks to a tip off on YACF!).

[Kim]

Is "wide open skies" to headwind what "scenic" is to hills?  

[Martin]

Very interesting read. Having ventured a few times to the continent (but no flying, we are ferry enthusiasts) I agree with much of what you have written.  A few points :

"I've visited the North Netherlands a few times and it's a gem! quiet rural lanes wide open skies and, a more relaxed way of life. Only problem is getting there! There are no flights or ferries from the UK so you have to start in Germany."  100% agree with the "gem" description, generally we really loved north and east Netherlands. There is though a flight from the UK - Flybe have a Southend to Groenigen route (no idea whether it is bike friendly as maybe it is a very small plane)

Having ridden from HvH to Berlin last year I don't 100% agree with your comments on German cycle routes and drivers. In 500 miles I think we only once encountered a driver who was aggressive to us (probably when we weren't using a cycle track, although 99% of his fellows had no problem). Generally I would rate the German drivers top of all the countries we have visited for politeness and consideration - many hang well back very patiently to make a safe overtake. We plotted a route with a mix of cycle routes and main(ish) roads - and were happy to cycle on roads with no tracks, but equally found many roads had adequate tracks and some had very nice new ones, so probably an evolving and improving situation. I agree about tracks through villages, but we watched what the locals did and just went onto the road, although there were sometimes some fiddly crossing back and forth issues.

+1 for Stayokay hostels - although be aware that most (all?) don't have self catering kitchens, but they do have nice bars. We used German hostels last year which were more traditional, and usually full of school children (at least in Sept), but we were made very welcome and there was undercover bike accommodation everywhere. As with Stayokays, breakfast included, but evening meals too early if doing long days.

It would be so good to be able to put Harwich-Esbjerg back on the list. We managed to get a trip the last year it ran (thanks to a tip off on YACF!).

Thanks bhoot; I'll add the Flybe route; may use it myself one day as last year's tour sort of started proper once we reached Groningen.

we were probably a bit over cautious in Germany; so stuck to the provided routes for fear of being hooted. Actually I've had more horn sounding for straying onto roads in Netherlands

I think the Esbjerg route suffered from a diesel tax (not sure if a Denmark only one) which scuppered the economics; my #1 son used it a few weeks before it finished (en route to a petrolheadfest in Norway)

I think in many cases YHA is going the way of Stayokay in terms of self catering; for instance Edale is now a Stayokay in all but colour scheme; although nearby Castleton (also recently refurbed) still has a full self catering kitchen

Next trip is in 8 weeks ending up in Brussels, hopefully I'll have some more to report about the Belgian side of things; found it OK so far just not as good as Netherlands

I'd like to add a bit about the Fietsroutenetwerks although they seem to be something that isn't available online and that you only find out about by happening upon a "knoopunkt" and they definitely end up turning a direct one way trip into a much more convoluted (and all the better for it in many ways) ride.

Is "wide open skies" to headwind what "scenic" is to hills?   

wide open skies are always with a tailwind; if there's a headwind you never look up!

[yoav]

There are plenty of resources available online that allow you to plan journeys via the knooppunts. Here's one that covers both Holland and Flanders:
http://www.fietsnet.be/routeplanner/default.aspx
But there are plenty of others. There is at least one mobile app too.

[bhoot]

There are plenty of resources available online that allow you to plan journeys via the knooppunts. Here's one that covers both Holland and Flanders:
http://www.fietsnet.be/routeplanner/default.aspx
But there are plenty of others. There is at least one mobile app too.

The numbers are also shown on Open Street map (eg as accessed from Bikehike) although we have found some discrepancies in the past between that, the maps we have (not the newest) and what you find on the ground). But an ace system - so satisfying to show an entire's days navigation as a scrawled list of numbers!  In practice armed with a map (or modern device if that way inclined) you can combine the numbers with some straighter shortcuts along other roads. We did that very successfully last year heading east from Arnhem to the German border.

In southern Belgium we found the knooppunts but no handy direction board at each one as in the Netherlands and further north. So having been too cheap skate to buy the detailed Belgian maps, not prepared our route in advance and not having ready internet access on anything big enough to read, we couldn't really use them.

[Martin]

I had heard that the Knooppunts concept was originally a Belgian idea and that NL had taken on the scheme and added physical maps at the knoopunts whereas previously you needed the maps with you;

thanks for the link I'll definitely add it ;-) we used them a lot last year mostly in Freisland when we had plenty of time each day between Stayokays

[yoav]

If by southern Belgium you mean Wallonia then there aren't any knooppunts. The system is purely Flanders and once into Wallonia they disappear. But that's because in reality, the two halves of Belgium are really 2 different countries, 2 languages and 2 different systems of bicycle navigation.

[Martin]

I notice that the fietsnet.be site shows the network finishing east of Groningen too; is this true?

[yoav]

Don't think so. No idea why that site doesn't show any routes between Groningen and the German border. Other mapping websites do.

[bhoot]

If by southern Belgium you mean Wallonia then there aren't any knooppunts. The system is purely Flanders and once into Wallonia they disappear. But that's because in reality, the two halves of Belgium are really 2 different countries, 2 languages and 2 different systems of bicycle navigation.

Oops, that was me being rather sloppy - when I said southern I meant the bit nearish to the coast and down towards France (Gent, Ieper etc) - so part of Flanders, but no Knoopunt map boards. Whereas when we got nearer up towards Antwerp the boards (Netherlands style) appeared quite frequently.

[Martin]

To update following my trip this weekend, no problem at all sending your unbooked bike back to London on the day on Eurostar; on the same train too. Quite a few cyclists had done the same for Liege - Baston - Liege.

(but it was Brussels, can't speak for SNCF)

BA from City Airport also superb, they hadn't seen a bike for a long while but knew exactly what to do 

[Ham]

A word of warning about flights from London City - several planes flying from there have much smaller loading bay doors than many, which can cause difficulties. DNAMHIKT

Great article, BTW.

(also, my experience of using the CTC bag is that handlers can see what it is and naturally pick it up by top tube etc, making for better handling than boxes)

[Martin]

A word of warning about flights from London City - several planes flying from there have much smaller loading bay doors than many, which can cause difficulties. DNAMHIKT

thanks; useful to know and always worth checking individual airlines' conditions. Thinking about Flybe from Saaaarfend to Hgcchroewningen next year but they say bikes only taken subject to space (which may mean subject to plane) so thinking about something smaller than standard Halfords box size

[Ham]

If it helps, the plane was an Embraer 190 which BA use for a lot of city hopper stuff from LCY.  Given that I can get to LCY inside 30 minutes by just about any means (bike, car, public transport) and how easy it is to get through, iit is my fave airport. Unfortunately there is a blank for mainland destinations from LCY between Bordeaux and south of Spain/Portugal ( they've just stopped a flight to Madrid). So, I'm flying to Asturias from LHR, back from Porto to LGW. Given that I know where I'll be on the last night, I'm going to post my CTC bag along with pedal spanner and tape to the hotel. If that fails, I can see me scrabbling around in a Portugese DIY store....

[Martin]

we went out on a BA E190; no problems with a big box

[Ham]

Hmmmm ... I wonder if I was on a 170 then? tbh I didn't take notice but I know that the 190 is the usual craft on the route. I was bringing my "beater" back from Edinburgh (so 26" flat bar, quite compact with the seat dropped and bars turned), I used to do that route a lot for work (hence the bike) which is why I called it as the 190.

Everyone was waiting at the gate muttering because there were "delays loading" when I got called out because they were struggling to get the bike in  . Apparently Bill or Pete must have put their elbow to it, coz they finally managed without any further disassembly, there was no damage on recovery.

[Martin]

Hmmmm ... I wonder if I was on a 170 then? tbh I didn't take notice but I know that the 190 is the usual craft on the route. I was bringing my "beater" back from Edinburgh (so 26" flat bar, quite compact with the seat dropped and bars turned), I used to do that route a lot for work (hence the bike) which is why I called it as the 190.

Everyone was waiting at the gate muttering because there were "delays loading" when I got called out because they were struggling to get the bike in  . Apparently Bill or Pete must have put their elbow to it, coz they finally managed without any further disassembly, there was no damage on recovery.

saw a 170 while waiting for our flight, looks the same as a 190 but shorter but IMBW. BA do specify maximum lengths for bikes so presumably they cover all their fleet.

City's the only airport I've ever been where an A319 looked BIG!

anyone had a problem getting onto a BA flight with a CTC bagged bike? thinking about situations where one needs to fly back having ridden there, BA say "recognised bike bag" but what exactly does that mean?

[Ham]

BA say "recognised bike bag" but what exactly does that mean?

As far as I have been able to gather (and I have asked) it has no specific meaning beyond that contained in the words, but is a catchall to stop people wrapping in, say, paper towels and sellotape. If you ask customer services you may get someone who extemporises and explains their idea of a bike bag in an attempt to be helpful, but on further questioning you will discover it doesn't exist as a definition. Always remember to answer the "you have let air out of the tyres?" with a confident "Yes" despite the lack of need.

The fact that it did go through the door in the end without further disassembly suggests that the raw size data BA use is accurate.

As I have a Thomson Elite seatpost with layback (where it bends from about 4" down from the saddle), for my journety later today I will be removing bagging and zip tying the saddle lower, making certain it can still be used to lift the rear end.