Author Topic: Carradice fabrics  (Read 6107 times)

Carradice fabrics
« on: 23 May, 2017, 08:26:29 am »
I'm curious about the fabrics used by Carradice. I bought the carradry bar bag because it looked a cheaper version of the Ortlieb bar bags but with more capacity for the money and that light bracket underneath. Fiddly to open and close so not a big fan.

I'm not a fan of their old school style, but I am interested in a dry bag for the top of the rack that they do. The trouble is I've no experience of proofed cotton that they use and claim to be waterproof. Is it?
http://www.carradice.co.uk/bags/rack-packs-stuff-sacks/super-c-maxi-stuffsack

Should I just get an Ortlieb to go with my panniers since I trust Ortlieb fabrics. I own an Ortlieb heavyweight drybag in a very large size for other uses. I could get a smaller one for touring.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #1 on: 23 May, 2017, 08:30:09 am »
No, the cotton duck isn't waterproof. They are lying, and the thousands of people who have been using it for decades only use it because they are sad deluded hipsters. Or maybe it is a conspiracy (like the moon landings).

Of course it is waterproof.

Do you think they would have had a successful business using the same fabric for so long if it didn't work?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #2 on: 23 May, 2017, 08:34:33 am »
Whatever happened to " be excellent to each other"?

That was a  caustic response to a simple question.


Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #3 on: 23 May, 2017, 08:55:09 am »
I also bought a Carradry bar bag for the exact same reasons. And I have various items of Carradice cotton canvas. It's not only waterproof it's also incredibly hard wearing.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #4 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:02:25 am »
No, the cotton duck isn't waterproof. They are lying, and the thousands of people who have been using it for decades only use it because they are sad deluded hipsters. Or maybe it is a conspiracy (like the moon landings).

Of course it is waterproof.

Do you think they would have had a successful business using the same fabric for so long if it didn't work?

Blimey, steady on! It seems like an honest question (and I don't think I could claim it is 100% waterproof, given what that actually means).

Cotton Duck fabric is waterproof in the same way as a Tent canvas.  The density of the cotton means that, when it gets wet on the outside, it expands to form a barrier to the inside.

I've left my bike in the rain for hours (almost always at the YHA on Bryan Chapman funnily enough).  The fabric is sodden on the outside and bone-dry on the inside.  I've NEVER had water get through to the contents.
I have 2 Barleys and a Super-C.
They've taken a real beating over the years and look better for it.  You can cram things in, and lash things to them, in a way you can't with Ortlieb..etc.

I have Ortlieb panniers and Bar-bags.  They ARE waterproof because they are heat-treated plastic and form an impermeable barrier.

If you are carrying a bar-bag into a Cafe then personally I'd get an Ortlieb because you can wipe the water off.  A Cotton Duck barbag would hold water be damp to the touch.

My camping gear, being Ortlieb can be left out in the rain, thrown onto wet grass...and my front panniers, being roll-tops, could probably survive being dropped in a river.

I can't confirm this but I would assume Cotton Duck could become damp inside if, say, you left panniers on very wet grass or in a puddle.

Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #5 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:08:54 am »
Well another question for your wit. Do they wet out? Ortlieb and the carradry fabric doesn't. I suspect cotton duck, or whatever you want to call proofed cotton, does wet out and takes a long time to dry off. IMHO that's not ideal.

Our Ortlieb panniers can drip dry in a tent porch and then be brought into the inner tent but suspect the carradice product would remain wet and in the tent porch for the night.

BTW my first question isn't that daft if you bought into the earliest version of paramo "waterproof" fabrics. When first set up they claimed it but the first time you kneel on very wet grass you learnt it was not waterproof. Apply pressure from a knee in "waterproof" trousers or a loaded "drybag" and you could notice forced leakage. If that doesn't happen with this fabric then great, it's answered my question, but unless you've used such fabrics how can you be sure? You ask a question perhaps?

BTW on a side discussion, another traditional cotton based fabric called ventile has similar issues. Single layer isn't completely waterproof I believe but double layer is.


Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #6 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:28:32 am »
I apologise for being rude.

I'm very stressed.

However, to the OP, I'd like to point out that unlike paramo or suchlike 'new kids on the block', carradice has been around for decades, using the same fabric and has a very loyal and happy large customer base. That says a lot. If the fabric didn't work, I seriously doubt that the company would be using it or the customers would be happy. They certainly wouldn't get away with claiming that it is waterproof.

In response to the question about 'wetting out'; yes, the cotton duck can get sodden, however it doesn't start to leak through once sodden. However it does get extremely rigid once sodden.
I've ridden through floods so deep that my saddlebag was floating up on the water. The contents stayed dry. I've for hours through rain so heavy that my eyes got sore from the rain washing down over them, my clothes ran with water. The contents of my saddlebag stayed dry (my karrimor synthetic barbag started to fill up with rainwater and needed emptying however).
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #7 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:29:01 am »
I've never experienced that kind of forced leakage with Carradice cotton duck (or whatever!) panniers. I suppose it could happen but I think in practice it's very unlikely. The fabric is pretty thick and fairly stiff although it's single layer.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #8 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:33:06 am »
Do they wet out?
Not for many years, the wax takes care of that.  After a number of years in sunshine and so on the wax dissipates and the cotton will retain some water.  After about 20 years this is bad enough that damp patches can appear inside, usually under the lid.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #9 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:42:03 am »
I do find that my Super C courier bag wets through in heavy rain; not huge amounts, but enough that if I'm expecting rain I'd put books and papers inside a plastic bag. OTOH it has seen much abuse and has (against instructions) been hand-washed and reproofed, which may have affected the watertightness.  Also courier bags get rubbed about more because of the way they're carried; I'd expect saddlebags and panniers to be less susceptible. Certainly I've never had problems with my Barley.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #10 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:42:43 am »
I think I have my answer, it's not for me. Wetting out of the outer isn't ideal for our needs.

Thanks for your positive replies and I hope you manage to de-stress mrcharly-yht. I suggest a bike ride.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #11 on: 23 May, 2017, 09:57:31 am »
I have had a Carradice pannier with visible seepage in the bottom (one occasion only). It got replaced by Ortlieb when I snagged it on a bollard in Stromness high street and ripped it.
I've never had seepage in a saddlebag, but saddlebags are in quite a sheltered location when riding, and when parked the rain isn't driven in the same.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #12 on: 23 May, 2017, 10:17:37 am »
I think I have my answer, it's not for me. Wetting out of the outer isn't ideal for our needs.

Thanks for your positive replies and I hope you manage to de-stress mrcharly-yht. I suggest a bike ride.

Are you sure you didn't know that when you first put pixel to screen? :demon:

..and may I ask, do you prefer Campag or SHimano? 
Move Faster and Bake Things

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #13 on: 23 May, 2017, 10:30:38 am »
Back to the OP.

I'll be clearer.

For a dry-bag I'd say that Cotton Duck is a ridiculous concept.

Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #14 on: 23 May, 2017, 10:35:12 am »
Back to the OP.

I'll be clearer.

For a dry-bag I'd say that Cotton Duck is a ridiculous concept.
I actually agree with this. Cotton duck gets so stiff when wet, and it heavy. Not ideal for the shape and use of a dry bag.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #15 on: 23 May, 2017, 10:41:41 am »
Back to the OP.

I'll be clearer.

For a dry-bag I'd say that Cotton Duck is a ridiculous concept.

would it be suitable to make a frame bag of? what could be the reason carradice are not making them? out of all bike bags that would be my favourite one.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #16 on: 23 May, 2017, 10:49:46 am »
Back to the OP.

I'll be clearer.

For a dry-bag I'd say that Cotton Duck is a ridiculous concept.

would it be suitable to make a frame bag of? what could be the reason carradice are not making them? out of all bike bags that would be my favourite one.

A frame bag, like my green and brown leather Barley, would be lovely.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #17 on: 23 May, 2017, 10:53:16 am »
I take it you're referring to an almost tribal connection people have to things they like. Like fans of campag stick campag. My answer to that specific question, ignoring the tribalism aspect, is that I prefer whatever works for me. I happen to have always owned Shimano because all the best bikes in my price range at the time I bought them had Shimano. The last one was cheaper because the brand was in the process of switching that bike model over to SRAM.

As far as knowing about by the fabric I would honestly say ib didn't know but I suspected it might be so. However I prefer to find out and short of buying one to find out the opinions of regular forum posters is a cheaper way to find out. If you think that's a waste of your time and the time of other posters then feel free not to reply. However a forum such as this often becomes a source of information and opinions ranging from stupid newbie questions (I take it you view my question to fit into this category) to highly technical questions a real bike expert is needed to answer. It all adds to the forum IMHO.

Just one last thought. There are many natural and traditional fabrics in use. Some highly treated to behave like modern fabrics, others not treated much at all. They all work to some extent. If you don't know how well then asking a question on a forum could be a good idea.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #18 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:02:11 am »
It seems a perfectly sensible question to me, and numerous variations on the theme of "Carradice or Ortlieb?" are pretty common questions. FWIW I reckon there isn't a definitive answer to these questions; they're both good and it comes down to personal preference.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #19 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:11:10 am »
But within that knowing the pro's and con's helps. Wetting out is a definite con for me. That's personal preference in action. Until I knew for sure it was how they behaved in rain I could not decide whether to risk it.

Now why don't they do a carradry version? AFAIK it would be a better price than the expensive Ortlieb dry bags.

Is there another option for rack top bag that's cost effective?

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #20 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:12:02 am »
Back to the OP.

I'll be clearer.

For a dry-bag I'd say that Cotton Duck is a ridiculous concept.

would it be suitable to make a frame bag of? what could be the reason carradice are not making them? out of all bike bags that would be my favourite one.

A frame bag, like my green and brown leather Barley, would be lovely.

Well it would if they used the older coloured cotton and leather. I'm not a fan of the new materials. They are definitely more resistant to fading, but they've lost some of the charm on the way.
My old barley has gone a lively weathered silver/grey/green colour. My newer Nelson still looks completely brand new (despite being 8 years old now).
So, yes, a lovely cotton duck framebag to match my existing Barley would be a thing of beauty...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #21 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:17:40 am »
Now why don't they do a carradry version? AFAIK it would be a better price than the expensive Ortlieb dry bags.
I agree. As for something similar without the expense of Ortlieb, maybe Alpkit?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #22 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:22:49 am »
I have a Cotton Duck rack top bag and I have used it for years in all sorts of weather without a hint of its contents getting wet. In theory the material gets wet, but only slightly and it doesn't go through. In the long term I would trust it more than any nylon with a waterproof coating. But I also like Ortlieb stuff.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #23 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:27:04 am »
But for me that wetting out is an issue. Ortlieb I know just shake off and you can pretty much take straight into your inner tent. I doubt any of you cotton duck fans would take your barley bag into your inner tent after a long, wet ride.

I think I'm going to just find a good dry bag option in Ortlieb type fabric.

Re: Carradice fabrics
« Reply #24 on: 23 May, 2017, 11:39:34 am »
This is where it gets a bit exasperating and you start to sound like someone trolling over the virtues of shimano vs campag (without having used both for personal experience).

Loads of people here use carradice luggage and yes, they take them into their tents. But I doubt you are going to believe us. 
The 'wetting out' that so disturbs you isn't an issue.
<i>Marmite slave</i>