Netherlands Nirvana

[The French Tandem]

To a point.
But I think it's made NL drivers totally unaware of how to deal with cyclists on the road.

On a 600 around a touristy part of ScotlandLand last year, almost *all*of the dangerous overtakes were by NL cars, which surprised me greatly.

I'm really surprised by your comment about dangerous NL cars. In France, we are very commonly overtaken by NL drivers on holiday here. They are always, I said always, very cautious, and wait behind us for as long as needed before they can overtake us safely.  I never realized it was because they don't have to deal with bicycles on roads at home!

[Adam]

I don't really like cycling in The Netherlands. I want to just ride on the road. Not some poxy cycle path that takes me miles off route....

But all just about all the suburban roads have cycle paths right alongside, so unlike the UK, you don't end up off route.  And the ones that don't, then you can cycle on.  Last year I did about a 50 mile trip on my Bickerton from Amsterdam to Lelystad, and at least half of that was on road.

[quixoticgeek]

This week a cycle campaigning friend (German origin, now living in the North of England) came over for a cycling conference in Nijmegen.

From Bremen, I presume?

I can neither confirm nor deny...

J

[quixoticgeek]

I don't really like cycling in The Netherlands. I want to just ride on the road. Not some poxy cycle path that takes me miles off route....

But all just about all the suburban roads have cycle paths right alongside, so unlike the UK, you don't end up off route.  And the ones that don't, then you can cycle on.  Last year I did about a 50 mile trip on my Bickerton from Amsterdam to Lelystad, and at least half of that was on road.

There are a lot of reasons you might not want to use the bike lanes in .nl, full of packs of marauding students at 1.7 people per bike doing naught more than a brisk walking pace... the broken glass that litters the paths... the brom fiets... etc... But it's very rare that they don't go where you want to go along the same line as the road... After all, this isn't Sustrans we're talking about[1]

J

[1]Sustrans, the longest cycle route between 2 points...

[Kim]

Anecdotally it would seem to have done the opposite too; made Dutch cyclists unaware of how to deal with motor traffic, if the tales you hear of tourists getting off the ferry and hardly being able to get out of the docks for fear are not exaggerated (which I expect they are).

If the docks in question are Dover, then I don't think it's much of an exaggeration.  It's like a round of The Crystal Maze to escape the port, followed by some of Sustrans' finest bollocks infra (and unless you immediately get on a train to London, a bastard hill).

Harwich doesn't seem anywhere near as bad, but they're going to encounter the delights of Essex drivers at some point.

[Mrs Pingu]

I agree about the NL drivers, usually the crap overtakes on alpine roads are from them.
We've just spent a week in Belgium and although I'm not usually for separation it does make for a much for peaceful and laid back cycling experience.
Also agree about the effect of the flat, we've not done very long days in the saddle this week but my arse and arms don't half hurt from the lack of change in position.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

The Pingus are still here.
I haz a happee.

[quixoticgeek]

Went out for a group ride with 7 others today, nothing too strenuous, ~45km from Ams to Bloemendaal am zee. The overriding thought we all had was "bloody paving". Most of the roads and far too many cycle paths are surfaced with block paving, which if you try talking while you ride makes you sound like ET. It's really fatiguing riding on such a surface. I can't work out why any sane person would choose that for cycling infrastructure...

J

[Kim]

Went out for a group ride with 7 others today, nothing too strenuous, ~45km from Ams to Bloemendaal am zee. The overriding thought we all had was "bloody paving". Most of the roads and far too many cycle paths are surfaced with block paving, which if you try talking while you ride makes you sound like ET. It's really fatiguing riding on such a surface. I can't work out why any sane person would choose that for cycling infrastructure...

It's about low maintenance, I think.  The great thing about block paving is that you can dig it up, fix the tree roots or muck about with utilities or whatever and then put it back and it's seamless, rather than ending up with ruts as neglected tarmac tends to.  I suspect it's also relatively fast-rolling for bikes, even with the vibration factor.

The trick is to have the right bike for the job.  The right bike appears to be either  a) an over-engineered full-suspension German touring bike^[1]  or  b) a traditional Dutch clunker^[2] with almost but not quite entirely flat tyres

(On quiet roads where bikes share with cars it makes a *lot* more sense.  It's hardwearing and encourages the motorists to slow down.)


_{[1] Bring some spare nylocks for the mudguard stays.
[2] If it's properly rusted the mudguard stays will be fine.}

[hellymedic]

This week a cycle campaigning friend (German origin, now living in the North of England) came over for a cycling conference in Nijmegen.

From Bremen, I presume?

I can neither confirm nor deny...
J

I thought she was back in Bremen...

[hellymedic]

[1]Sustrans, the longest cycle route between 2 points...

 

[Sergeant Pluck]

I can't work out why any sane person would choose that for cycling infrastructure.

’Tis because of the nature of the ground in NL - sandy, shifting, sinking. Hence a lot of roads and paths that do not have heavy traffic are surfaced with pavers which can move with the ground.

[nikki]

’Tis because of the nature of the ground in NL - sand, shifting, sinking.

Fixed that for you. Seeing what Den Haag is built on is kind of terrifying: no evidence of anything resembling soil in the holes for the roadworks etc.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Well-compacted sand can be a lot better to build on than clay or organic matter.

[Mrs Pingu]

The Pingus are still here.
I haz a happee.

But you're not, you've buggered off and left us for pastures far more exciting! 

[Mrs Pingu]

This was probably the worst sandy path of this week:
IMG_8838_01 by The Pingus, on Flickr

It was quickly followed by the worst cobbled path of the week. Possibly resulting in Pingu's broken spoke.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Bulletin the Fourth.        The Shame.

Many years ago at the Edinburgh Festival I saw a play called "I Licked a Whore's Arpmit".
Concerning an alcoholic so low that all he can afford is.. well...  But it did have someone getting down to the bare scuddy, whihc is always good in Edinburgh. I digress.

On the strange habits of the Dutch - they wait patiently for pedestian and cycle crossing lights, even on patently empty roads. A lot longer than the British will wait.  I wonder if this is a result of school lessons?

Just after arriving in the Netherlands I bought a takeaway coffee and brought it onto a local bus. On spotting me having a sly sip, the bus driver screeched to a halt and got out of his seat to lecture me. On seeing my blank expression he switched to English, and wagged his finger. No coffee on the bus! What if I have to brake sharply - it will spill all over the person in front of you. That was me told, as they say in Glasgow.

Yesterday in the heat I went out on my Hewitt tourer for the first time to explore the Kempen area, where Centerparcs is. I had a bust tour the previous day of the area, including a holiday park a la Centerparcs but favoured by Germans, Also the little town of Eersel.
So I headed to Eeersel following the long distance fietspad LF51.  This is a route from Eindhoven to Antwerp.
The route was superbly well signposted, with LF51a going one way and LF51b going the other, so you know which signs to follow.
I agree with some of the comments above - even though this is a long distance route, it took a perverse delight in following every little byway through the contryside. At one point it neatly went round three sides of a farmers field on a sandy track jus tlike Mrs Pingus picture above.
Tough going in the heat, so when I finally arrived in Eeersel a well deserved pint barely touched the sides...

On the way back I looked at the map. There are superb Fietspad maps available for all the country - I haven't quite got the hang of the 'numbered junction' system yet.  I saw that there is a direct route on a Provincialweg - what would be an A-road in Britain. Being a bit knackered, I decided to take this direct route.  Superb cycle paths on either side for the whole distance. I know its not that pleasant cycling beside a road, but surely if there is a long distance route you would choose that rather than twice this distance through little lanes. If you were in the evening heading for your accomodation or a campsite I can imagine the LF51 route would drive you to screaming frustration.

So picture the lardy Brit, slathered in suncream, sweating along on his touring bike with 24 speed gears...   I am a lardy git and unfit to boot.
10 kilometres from home who should come along but my nemesis - the Dutch Granny. Out for a pootle in the 30 degree heat on her sit up and beg bike...
She breezes past me as I asthmatically honk along.... So what did I do? Mash the pedals and uphold the honour of British cycling? Noooo.....   I got on her wheel and drafted her home...

There. I drafted a Dutch Granny.

[Palinurus]

To a point.
But I think it's made NL drivers totally unaware of how to deal with cyclists on the road.

On a 600 around a touristy part of ScotlandLand last year, almost *all*of the dangerous overtakes were by NL cars, which surprised me greatly.

Anecdotally it would seem to have done the opposite too; made Dutch cyclists unaware of how to deal with motor traffic, if the tales you hear of tourists getting off the ferry and hardly being able to get out of the docks for fear are not exaggerated (which I expect they are).

I'm fairly inured to the conditions in the UK (Vauxhall Cross-style inured). Had to pick my way through Dover on a short tour of Kent a few years ago and I remember it being pretty horrible.

[Palinurus]

Try being a bit naughty and riding on the road in NL. You'll get shouted at and abused and even run off the road....

Not dissimilar from Hertfordshire.

[Cudzoziemiec]

On the strange habits of the Dutch - they wait patiently for pedestian and cycle crossing lights, even on patently empty roads. A lot longer than the British will wait.  I wonder if this is a result of school lessons?

Just after arriving in the Netherlands I bought a takeaway coffee and brought it onto a local bus. On spotting me having a sly sip, the bus driver screeched to a halt and got out of his seat to lecture me. On seeing my blank expression he switched to English, and wagged his finger. No coffee on the bus! What if I have to brake sharply - it will spill all over the person in front of you. That was me told, as they say in Glasgow.

Do the Dutch regard themselves as being law abiding? Perhaps to them it's so obvious that this is what you do, they don't even consider it a matter of law abiding-ness or not? I ask because one of the habits of Poles that struck me is how they always wait for the green man before crossing the road, even when the road is completely empty. Of course you can be fined for not doing so, but that's the case in many countries. But they like to proclaim themselves a nation of anarchists.

[ijsbrand]

On the way back I looked at the map. There are superb Fietspad maps available for all the country - I haven't quite got the hang of the 'numbered junction' system yet.  I saw that there is a direct route on a Provincialweg - what would be an A-road in Britain. Being a bit knackered, I decided to take this direct route.  Superb cycle paths on either side for the whole distance. I know its not that pleasant cycling beside a road, but surely if there is a long distance route you would choose that rather than twice this distance through little lanes. If you were in the evening heading for your accomodation or a campsite I can imagine the LF51 route would drive you to screaming frustration.

When I am planning a ride into unknown territory, the Fietsersbond routeplanner is my goto site -- since it offers a lot of fine tuning. Do I need the shortest route? The most convenient one? Only on paved roads? Without ever coming across cars?

LF routes are indeed scenic and touristy ones -- useful in some cities though, since LF routes tend to avoid crossings with traffic lights, if possible, which is not possible everywhere.

The numbered Fietsknooppunten system is yet another mostly touristy thing, showing you nice bits and using calm roads.

And apart from those, many regions have their own scenic cycle routes. So sometimes you can come across points with directions from three separate organisations.

[Mrs Pingu]

The Belgians seem to be going for electric bikes in a big way. Got passed by tons of grannies and grandpa's on his n hers e-bikes, effortlessly swanning past. Gits.

[Dave_C]

Hello Mr Scum,

Where do I find the Nederlands Feitspad map please? We bought a local map from De Kempervennen, but its wasn't that large, stopping short of around 15km sq.

Cheers, Dav eC

[Dave_C]

Hello Mr ijsbrand, is there a planner for Belgium please? I see from the link you so very kindly provided, Belgium is hundreds of years behind the Nederlands, or has been recently been taken over by the Sahara!

[Mrs Pingu]

Hello Mr ijsbrand, is there a planner for Belgium please? I see from the link you so very kindly provided, Belgium is hundreds of years behind the Nederlands, or has been recently been taken over by the Sahara!

I think Pingu used this http://www.fietsroute.org/cycle-node-planner