funky new Open Pros

[vorsprung]

If you look carefully at the rim it isn't straight it's wibbly wobbly

rumour is that they will be tubeless compatible and 19mm internal width (current Open Pros are 14 or 15mm)

[velosam]

well its different, wonder why - aero benefit?

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't know about the wibbly-wobbly rim – at a guess it's probably a marketing and design feature, for which they might well claim aero, strength or other benefits (and that's not to knock it; aesthetics are important, though it's a shame manufacturers often feel the need to hide this under spurious performance claims) – but wider rims for wider tyres, or even for the same width tyres, are definitely on trend.

[Ian H]

It seems to be combined with fewer options for different drillings.  Not surprising when the rim design has to change for each one.

[De Sisti]

More expensive than their predecessor?

[Brucey]

More expensive than their predecessor?

oooh yeah, 'specially if you want 'exalith' ones. Mind you they may not wear out inside 30000 miles or something bonkers like that.

The wibblyness is to allow a locally thickened rim bed to resist spoke loadings. Some of the posh Mavic wheelsets have had this feature for a while.

There's also disc-specific versions and what-not.

cheers

[zigzag]

More expensive than their predecessor?

"The Exalith rims will retail for 170 euros each (£145 GBP) while the UB Control and disc brake rims retail for 70 euros (£60GBP)."

[sojournermike]

First Open Pros I've fancied trying, but the Exalith are not inexpensive...

[rogerzilla]

Mavic stopped making the best rims years ago and the Open Pro takes woefully low spoke tension before pringling.  Not cheap for what they are, either.  It's all marketing now.

[Ian H]

Mavic stopped making the best rims years ago and the Open Pro takes woefully low spoke tension before pringling.  Not cheap for what they are, either.  It's all marketing now.

I found that with the OpenSport, but had no trouble with OpenPros.

[Brucey]

11s wheels have more dish (which just makes everything worse) and arguably 'the goalposts have moved' in that there are lots of rims and wheels out there now where the spoke tension is a lot higher; never mind that these very often suffer SCC and fall apart in the first winter, that is what some folk expect now.

There is a theory that they have changed the heat treatment (or something) in the open pro so that rims are a bit softer now than they used to be, but I don't really believe this; the ones I've seen wear out quickly were horribly abused by being used in filthy conditions with crap brake blocks.  You bought the lightest rim you could, used it that way, it wore out and you are surprised....??    Duh....

cheers

[zigzag]

regarding exalith longevity - my mate has one of the cosmic wheels with that surface and the silver aluminium patches started appearing after about 20,000km.  there are many different factors that affect wear rate, but that's one ballpark figure to consider.

[Veloman]

11s wheels have more dish ..............

Genuinely confused as wheels are often sold as 9/10/11 and I assume the dish would be the same, as the hub body length is the same and hence the overall cassette width must be the same, and the variable was the number of gears crammed into that cassette width, hence the difference in chain width, spacer width and sprocket width.  Surely the dish is the same whatever speed I am riding (9/10/11) or has the hub body been increased to accommodate 11 speed and if not using 11 speed then I need spoke side spacers which might explain the difference in dish between a 9/10/11 and a 9/10 wheel.  Or am I missing something?

[Brucey]

 the (shimano road) freehub splines are longer on 11s, you need to use a spacer with 8/9/10s cassettes (to ensure that the lockring doesn't bottom the top cog out on the splines) and the resultant wheel (almost invariably) has a worse dish than 8/9/10s.   

There are some brands of hub that have the same dish on 11s as (older) 10s models but these appear to be ones that had a sub-optimal dish anyway.

Both 10s and 11s road shimano cassettes have a dished/offset #1 sprocket which forces the mech to be very close indeed to the spokes.

In MTB cassettes, the assumption is that you will be using an enormous bottom sprocket, which can therefore be offset much further than the road 11s ones. Thus shimano MTB 11s cassettes are shorter than road 11s ones and will fit a 8/9/10s freehub body, but if you fit them to a 130mm spaced hub, the mech may touch the spokes, where with a 135mm+ spaced  hub, this is less likely because the spoke angles are different.

cheers

[Veloman]

Difference here does not appear significant:

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_221_Technical%20manual%20-%20sprocket%20pack%20-%20Campagnolo_REV00__09_14.pdf

More than happy to be advised as I'm considering upgrading a bike to 11 speed using existing wheels (which I believe are 9/10/11).

[Veloman]

Cross posted.

Many thanks.  My hubs are Campag and 9/10/11.

I did need to use a spacer on some Fulcrum wheels purchased for a friend as he had 10 speed and indeed the locknut would not tighten which confused me.  I then realised the hubs were 9/10/11 and looked for a spacer which I duly found and all was well.

[Jakob W]

Is there anyone making frames with offset rear ends so as to allow dishless 11-speed rears to be built, or are there chainline problems with this - if I've visualised the geometry correctly this should move the chainline out slightly?

[Brucey]

yes some MTBs come with offset rear ends.  In road bikes there is a problem which is that most roadies (esp professionals) would sooner have a lower Q value, but pushing the chainline out usually results  in a larger one.

BTW Campag  hubs in 130mm have had about the same dish in 8,9,10, and 11s form, pretty much.  Back in 8s days I found that the campag dished wheels were not sufficiently reliable for my use, also that shimano 8s hubs had better dish to start with and that they could (in contrast to Campag ones) also be easily adjusted for dish if needs be. They were stronger too, for touring and MTBing.  I stopped using campag hubs back then.

cheers

[zigzag]

i can further add that campag rear mech is much more likely to get tangled into the spokes than shimano, as the the cage in bottom gear is 3-4mm closer to the spokes (this is comparing 11sp drivetrains)

[fd3]

Will Exalith last over twice as long as the regular ones?  I fancy having a go at the regular ones at that price, but it would still be my spendies for the year!

[sojournermike]

Will Exalith last over twice as long as the regular ones?  I fancy having a go at the regular ones at that price, but it would still be my spendies for the year!

The thing is that you can get DT Swiss RR511, Kinlin 31T or Kinlin 22T for the same or less and they all look to offer something more. There again, I've never built or ridden a set of OPs, so what do I know.

[Brucey]

.... and they all look to offer something more....

such as....?

cheers

[sojournermike]

.... and they all look to offer something more....

such as....?

cheers

DT Swiss and 31T are deeper and almost certainly over a small aerodynamic gain. The 22T are cheaper.

The OPs have the funky spoke bed of course.

[Brucey]

they are all heavier, too, though?

cheers

[sojournermike]

Not sure whether they weigh 420g or 435g, but the Kinlin 22T's I've weighed have all been 440g or occasionally 450g, so potentially not very different. The DT RR411 is lighter, but more expensive.