Replacing bathroom lights - transformers from halogen to led

[velosam]

I have some mr16 halogens which I assume will have a transformer somewhere in the ceiling.

As bathrooms require some sort of building control, I thought it maybe easier simply to replace the bulbs with LEDs but with MR16 holders.

Is this possible?  I know the bulb will fit but I am not sure if the bulbs will work with the transformer.

I have no idea which transformer as the bulbs sit in a housing and the bulb connector is joined to the housing. I am not sure how to remove the housing and pull out the transformer, so am trying to find the less painful way of changing the bulbs.
If its too much of a faff I may as well just leave the halogens in, although the kids tend to leave the lights on in the bathroom all the time!

This is what I was thinking of replacing them with
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Light-Bulbs/BULBS-ENERGY-SAVING-WHITE-BRIGHT/B005F9WDBK/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1500984336&sr=8-14&keywords=Mr16+led

thanks

[Quisling]

My starting point would to whether or not the existing lighting is in good condition and compliant with building regs already - with respect to location/water resistance (IP rating) and fire rating etc.  If yes, the replacing the halogen lamp with LED is a good energy efficient move.  However.

• the transformers probably have a minimum current specification and may not successfully light a low power LED. You may have a transformer per light fitting or several transformers above the ceiling, and these are normally accessed by dropping the spotlight fitting out of the plasterboard.  They are usually held in by spring clips and take a fair bit of encouragement to remove - usually with cosmetic damage to the ceiling...  The easiest way to see if the transformer will work is to replace the lamps with new LEDs and if they work they work
• It's a matter of personal taste, and you may have billions of spotlights, but in my experience 3W LEDs are likely to be a bit dim compared to a 40-50 W halogen.  Look for the Lumen output of the lamp and compare to your existing halogens, not the power input to the lamp (Watts).  I generally find around 4-500 lumens is roughly equivalent to a 50W halogen, and is typically found on 5 - 6 W LED MR16s.
  

I've had hit and miss experience with transformers randomly working or not working with LEDs, or working but causing flickering.  As a result I've instigated a programme of upgrading lights to mains powered LED fittings with either fixed LEDs that can't be changed, or GU10 LED lamps.

Good luck.

[Veloman]

You able to purchase LEDs with individual transformers for each light which just tapping off the ring main.  I have had quite a few installed in kitchen and bathroom and very pleased with result.

[mcshroom]

I tried switching bulbs with the 4 in my bathroom and unfortunately the transformers would allow one flash of light from the LED and then back off to a dull glow. Annoyingly the transformers are under the boards in the loft and can't be pulled out of the fittings so I can't easily replace them.

I'm currently at the ignore the problem stage. Eventually I might get around to lifting the boards and replacing the transformers, or GAMI.

[velosam]

I tried switching bulbs with the 4 in my bathroom and unfortunately the transformers would allow one flash of light from the LED and then back off to a dull glow. Annoyingly the transformers are under the boards in the loft and can't be pulled out of the fittings so I can't easily replace them.

I'm currently at the ignore the problem stage. Eventually I might get around to lifting the boards and replacing the transformers, or GAMI.

I think I am with you on this.

I had a real headache with the fittings in the rest of the house, as the holders had bent and would not accept the LED bulbs.

I may just leave the bathroom ones alone for now.

My other problem is lights that are GU10 fitting but halogen. I am not sure I can just stick in LEDs in those.

[mcshroom]

I tried switching bulbs with the 4 in my bathroom and unfortunately the transformers would allow one flash of light from the LED and then back off to a dull glow. Annoyingly the transformers are under the boards in the loft and can't be pulled out of the fittings so I can't easily replace them.

I'm currently at the ignore the problem stage. Eventually I might get around to lifting the boards and replacing the transformers, or GAMI.

I think I am with you on this.

I had a real headache with the fittings in the rest of the house, as the holders had bent and would not accept the LED bulbs.

I may just leave the bathroom ones alone for now.

My other problem is lights that are GU10 fitting but halogen. I am not sure I can just stick in LEDs in those.

That was one I was more successful with. I think GU10 sockets are just sockets IIRC. My GU10 kitchen lights have happily been lighting the room with LED bulbs for a couple years now which meant I dropped from 400W to 40W for the room.

Unlike when I had halogens in them they don't seem to blow either. I had a couple halogens blow (the ones nearest the cooker) and they tripped the downstairs lighting circuit breaker as they went.

[hulver]

I think I am with you on this.

I had a real headache with the fittings in the rest of the house, as the holders had bent and would not accept the LED bulbs.

I may just leave the bathroom ones alone for now.

My other problem is lights that are GU10 fitting but halogen. I am not sure I can just stick in LEDs in those.

I've put LED bulbs in all my GU10 fittings, the replacements just work. Massive efficiency improvement. Just don't get the cheapest LED Gu10 bulbs. The IKEA ones are really good (the brighter ones, there are two "wattages"), not had a problem with them. There is a thread about LED bulbs somewhere on the site.

[rafletcher]

Another who has mains voltage GU10's that were switched directly to LED. Initial colour change was a bit off-putting (as with the LED cooker hood lights) but you soon acclimatise.

[velosam]

Thanks all.

I have now figured out how the bathroom lights work. The wiring appears to be the same -

junction box --- transformer ---- to another small connector on a metal clip (note that the lights in the rest of the house were connected via a connector block)--- to the light sitting in a housing.


Isnt the principle then just the same - I simply take the transformer out of the junction box - rewire a gu 10 mains cable and then plug the bulb in?

I am not sure I understand why the fitting in the bathroom has this spring connector block for the wiring to the MR16 holder.

Similar to the red box in the link below

https://www.ukelectricalsupplies.com/low-voltage-bathroom-downlights.htm

[Quisling]

All the spotlights I've installed recently have an angle bracket on the back which attaches the light fitting to the power connection.  I think this is in order to reduce overall depth within the ceiling and prevent heat rising directly upwards into the cabling (less of a problem with cooler LEDs than with Halogens).

You should be able to unwire the transformer(s) from the local junction box, and just wire in the new mains powered GU10 LED spots instead.

Take great care when sourcing new spots to ensure they (a) meet the requirements for water tightness for the bathroom location (b) that they are suitably fire rated - normally 30 mins fire rating but may be different requirements if you're in a building with 3 or more floors and (c) that the new light will fit within the available ceiling depth and give adequate clearance to floor above and to any joists etc - typically minimum 50mm.

We used Aurora lights in our kitchen re-fit and they're very good.  Recommended by our sparky.

Disclaimer: IANA Electrician.

[velosam]

All the spotlights I've installed recently have an angle bracket on the back which attaches the light fitting to the power connection.  I think this is in order to reduce overall depth within the ceiling and prevent heat rising directly upwards into the cabling (less of a problem with cooler LEDs than with Halogens).

You should be able to unwire the transformer(s) from the local junction box, and just wire in the new mains powered GU10 LED spots instead.

Take great care when sourcing new spots to ensure they (a) meet the requirements for water tightness for the bathroom location (b) that they are suitably fire rated - normally 30 mins fire rating but may be different requirements if you're in a building with 3 or more floors and (c) that the new light will fit within the available ceiling depth and give adequate clearance to floor above and to any joists etc - typically minimum 50mm.

We used Aurora lights in our kitchen re-fit and they're very good.  Recommended by our sparky.

Disclaimer: IANA Electrician.

Thanks very much. I did manage to do a couple but ruined the plaster in the process - any ideas how to fix that.

The lights I have been using are:
Integral LED Classic Glass LED GU10 Lamp 4.4W Warm White 345lm but there is no fire rating for them?!

[MikeFromLFE]

I've been following this with interest as I'm about to replace my 12v kitchen lights with 240v GU10 fittings.
There are four lights off each transformer currently -let's call them A, B, C, & D.
Do I wire the new lights in series - that's to say - Junction box -> A -> B -> C -> D , 
or do I wire them in parallel- that's to say Junction box ->>>>ABCD,
or as I currently plan - Junction box ->> New Junction Boxes 1&2 then Junction box 1. -> A -> B and Junction box 2 -> C -> D
My local friendly jobbing builder (not a sparky) says that any of the above would be OK, I'm not convinced!


Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!

[Diver300]

I've been following this with interest as I'm about to replace my 12v kitchen lights with 240v GU10 fittings.
There are four lights off each transformer currently -let's call them A, B, C, & D.
Do I wire the new lights in series - that's to say - Junction box -> A -> B -> C -> D , 
or do I wire them in parallel- that's to say Junction box ->>>>ABCD,
or as I currently plan - Junction box ->> New Junction Boxes 1&2 then Junction box 1. -> A -> B and Junction box 2 -> C -> D
My local friendly jobbing builder (not a sparky) says that any of the above would be OK, I'm not convinced!


Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!

Lamps are always wired in parallel.*  You are asking whether the wiring is star or daisy chain.

It makes no difference unless you are using several 12 V halogens with one transformer. If you are, star wiring will give less voltage drop and more even brightness.

With 230 V wiring, or with LEDs, the current taken is so low that voltage drop will be negligible, so wire whatever way is easiest.

*Christmas lights may be in series, but with series circuit, one bulb failing will stop them all, and the voltage on each bulb is less than the supply or transformer output voltage.

[MikeFromLFE]

 Excellent - thank you Diver300


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[MikeFromLFE]

Job now done - used B&W GU10s and a 'star' formation. A lot easier than I expected, and -bonus points - Mrs M is very happy with the results.


Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!