Unknown cassette

[quixoticgeek]

Was helping a friend fix their bike today, after discovering the chain and cassette needed replacing, I was then stumped to identify what cassette/freehub is on there, and thus what tool I need to remove it...

Can anyone identify the cassette in this picture, and any suggestions on what tool I need to remove it?





J

[Jakob W]

That looks like a freewheel rather than a freehub/cassette; if I'm counting correctly it's got 24 splines, which I think means it's probably a Mailliard/Normandy? A Google for '24 spline freewheel tool' should bring something up.

[Torslanda]

It looks like a Maillard Helicomatic judging from the spline arrangement or it may just be a standard freewheel.

If it's standard freewheel you need the correct splined tool which your LBS may well have. They're obsolete so it's probably not worth your while buying one cos you'll never need it again. Provided the hub has an English thread any bike shop/online supplier will be able to supply a replacement.

If it's Helicomatic then replace the wheel complete. The freewheel and its special lockring tool are obsolete and not worth the arseache of trying to find. Plus the ones you might find for sale are a minimum of 30 years old, badly engineered and very expensive collectors' items.

Likewise if the hub turns out to be French threaded replace the wheel.

Be prepared - in the case of needing a wheel - to respace the rear axle to 126mm (as most modern road wheels are 130mm) or cold set the dropouts to take the new wheel.

Good luck, if I can help any further please give me a shout.

luv'n'stuff

John

[Torslanda]

On reflection it's probably not Helicomatic. The only ones I've seen were on QR axles.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It is a Maillard freewheel. Hopefully it is English or Italian thread (interchangeable). Bin the wheel if it is French thread.

[Brucey]

yup it is a (Maillard) 'Normandy' freewheel, not a cassette.  Commonplace in the 70s and 80s.

The remover is still available and a good LBS will have it.

FWIW that freewheel does not look so badly worn that a new chain will definitely skip on it; I'd therefore change the chain and try it.

i.e. you may not need to remove it.

If you do need to  remove it and you have not got the remover there are various ways of achieving this.

cheers

[Torslanda]

Does that make me a 'bad' LBS because I haven't...?

[Brucey]

probably just means that you have not wasted you time tying to fix a load of auld shite....

http://www.vartools.com/en/normandy-freewheel-remover-var-p461.php

The var tool is OK but there are others with a hexagon on which makes them a bit more versatile.

I have not got the right tool either; I use other methods, e.g. a square bar of the right size to remove these freewheels. Several LBSs near me have the right tool if I really need it.

cheers

[The French Tandem]

Removing the freewheel is one thing, finding a proper replacement freewheel is another thing. Before I take the trouble to remove the freewheel, I would make sure I can buy a  new one somewhere! (Ebay is often a good place to start for obsolete bike parts)

[Torslanda]

Sadly, modern multiple freewheels are not the same quality as the Maillards, Atoms and Reginas etc. of old.

SunRace and Shimano are reasonable but there's an awful lot of rubbish out there...

[Brucey]

no kidding.

As I mentioned earlier, the OPs freewheel doesn't look knackered to me; it might well work OK with a new chain.

IIRC with that particular type of freewheel the inner three sprockets are reversible, but the 17/14 pair are not.

However concerning new freewheels; SunRace ones usually need reshimming from new, have no grease in and often are a few balls short each side.

 The shimano ones that have a lot of sprockets riveted together that overhang the LH bearing have a peculiar flaw; if the rider uses low gears (big sprockets) much early on, the precession forces are reversed from normal (presumably because of the overhang) and the lockring can unscrew itself.  This causes the freewheel to vomit tiny balls all over the place. I have seen this happen a few times....

cheers

[Biggsy]

Was helping a friend fix their bike today, after discovering the chain and cassette needed replacing,

Is the chain definitely skipping on the freewheel sprockets?  Otherwise they don't really need replacing regardless of what the chain measures.  (Assuming the chainrings aren't special enough to worry about wearing them out).

[mzjo]

I've got the tool, mine is welded onto a humongous bit of bar after I split it doing stupid things  (like forcing on the Atom remover that fitted on the inside splines; I think it was VAR). Works fine but not very portable. These freewheels go on for ever. I have a 14-34 in english threading (that was on the tandem, getting it off is how I split the remover, the repaired remover succeeded "no trouble") and a 14-26 in french thread that came on a wheel rescued from a skip bike.
In my opinion the Normandy freewheel is the best of the trio Normandy, Atom, Maillard. They run smoother and sprockets seem to last longer. Maillard Course seem to develop noisy bearings very quickly.

I assume this is in Holland, in which case it probably is english thread.

[Brucey]

I could be wrong but AFAICT the sprockets are the same quality  as were fitted onto Atom freewheels.

The Normandy freewheel has an odd number of teeth on a large diameter  ratchet and two pawls that are set 180 degrees apart. This gives a small amount of backlash before drive is taken up but ensures that the load is taken by only one pawl at a time. They are far from  unbreakable; one pawl isn't quite strong enough and the pawl springs do break from time to time.

IIRC the tandem version is built the same but there is an even number of teeth in the ratchet and four pawls set in two pairs such that they engage two at a time; this enables two pawls to engage at the same time (once the freewheel is run in, and if the bearings are good) and is stronger.

cheers

[quixoticgeek]

Was helping a friend fix their bike today, after discovering the chain and cassette needed replacing,

Is the chain definitely skipping on the freewheel sprockets?  Otherwise they don't really need replacing regardless of what the chain measures.  (Assuming the chainrings aren't special enough to worry about wearing them out).

The chain is rusty, dry and I'm surprised it rotates at all really...

The wheel has rotation on 3 axis... I wanted to take it apart, fix the bearings, and replace it with a new freewheel and chain while I'm at it.

This is a Dutch city bike that has seen rather a lot of use. I don't mind investing in the tool to fix it, no doubt I'll see these fittings again at some point, what we would consider antiques fit only for the museum or scrap heap are seen by the Dutch as entirely road worthy bikes...

J

[Brucey]

you can service the hub bearings without removing the freewheel; you just can't always remove the dustcap on the hub, which is not essential anyway (they often work loose afterwards...). 

I've seen a lot of worn sprockets and as I mentioned previously; that freewheel doesn't look too bad to me. I would certainly try it with a new chain before chucking it in the bin.

So unless you need to replace some spokes (which can be done by removing the sprockets from the freewheel if you have a large flange hub anyway) you don't definitely need to remove the freewheel in order to proceed.

cheers

[Biggsy]

And if a new chain doesn't work then I'd just use the old chain after soaking in oil.  The fact that the links rotate shows it can be used no matter how appalling it looks now.

I wouldn't normally suggest this, but it's worthwhile IMO in this case with the freewheel with plenty of life left.

[frankly frankie]

I always found Maillard blocks (BTW the clue is in the 'MADE IN FRANCE' stamped on the small cog - or does that make it a forgery, surely a real one would have 'FABRIQUEE EN LA BELLE FRANCE' ?) - anyway, I always found them prone to a certain kind of chain slip, because the teeth have a sort of M-shaped groove in the tip which can catch the chain and interrupt it from dropping into position.

[Brucey]

the 21T sprocket is looking a little worn in such a way that it hints that the original chain is knackered, but just hasn't been used for long enough to do any real damage yet.

cheers

[drossall]

I for one have a remover for that. Not for sale, but could be for loan if you're desperate?