DIsc brakes for a tourer; shall I just give in?

[joy of essex]

I must confess to ambivalence when it comes to disc brakes. Currently using rim brakes of  various types on my bikes and have no complaints about their ability to modify my speed.

I am planning to buy a new tourer next year or build up a cross check from accumulated parts. However, the future does not look cantilever shaped. Shall I  submit to the inevitable? Not least given the price of a cross check frame @ nearly £500... It was  £350 2 -3 years ago...

[Bolt]

In my experience the main advantage of discs is the elimination of rim wear followed by an extra degree of confidence on white knuckle descents.  I run both cable operated and hydraulic systems and have to say that I tend to favour the cable discs for their adaptability and ease of maintenance. 

[zigzag]

if comparing to cantilever* brakes, then definitely discs. good quality v-brakes or dual pivots are perfectly adequate in most scenarios and easy to maintain.

*which, as well as cottered cranks, should have never been invented in the first place

[joy of essex]

My ambivalence is  fuelled the many by tedious multi page threads on their adjustment, see LFGSS for example. You just don't get that  with dual pivots do you?

It looks like   touring wheels  that can take big tyres that largely now only be  disc braked wheels.

[Kim]

No objection to discs on a tourer here.  Yes, there's a knack to setting them up (particularly cable discs), but it's much less fiddly than V-brakes as you only have to tweak one variable at a time.  Performance (in all weather) is similar to V-brakes in the dry.  And no paranoia about rim wear.

I'd still lean to cable over hydraulic for touring, on the basis that it makes things more bodgable at the roadside, but realistically hydraulics are very reliable.

Consider how you're going to get the rotor off to replace a broken spoke...

[Torslanda]

Redshift OTP had the first Hewitt Cheviot built with disc brakes. The frame was modified and the fork was changed to a Project 2. Six years on and the wheels have never needed touching, the previous bike wore out three pairs of rims in 5 Manchester Winters.

Disc brakes need regular cleaning, especially if the bike is used for commuting in wet weather (I see lots of discs coated in diesel residue) but no more so than rim brakes and the pads generally last longer.

I would vote discs and, more specifically, BB7s.

[Karla]

It looks like   touring wheels  that can take big tyres that largely now only be  disc braked wheels.

It's time to build your own!  Alternatively, go to Spa or somewhere and get them to build whatever you want.

if comparing to cantilever* brakes, then definitely discs. good quality v-brakes or dual pivots are perfectly adequate in most scenarios and easy to maintain.

*which, as well as cottered cranks, should have never been invented in the first place

Some CXers still like them.  The reasoning, as far as I can tell, is thus:
1) They don't trap mud
2) It's so muddy the wheels will instantly lock up if you apply any braking force
3) The mud means it won't hurt so much if you do fall off
4) You're racing, you shouldn't use the brakes anyway

(    )

[Kim]

Disc brakes need regular cleaning, especially if the bike is used for commuting in wet weather (I see lots of discs coated in diesel residue) but no more so than rim brakes and the pads generally last longer.

While I strip and re-grease the calipers every couple of years to prevent corrosion, and wipe the resulting grime off the surrounding whatever occasionally, I don't think I've ever actually cleaned a disc.  The brake pads do that.

OTOH, my foul weather city riding mostly happens on bikes with rim brakes.  While the tourer gets plenty of rain and occasionally mud, it doesn't get as much exposure to diesel and salt.

I would vote discs and, more specifically, BB7s.

Agreed.  BB7 is a no-brainer for a tourer.  (I hear mixed things about the TRP Spyre, which is the other cable disc worth considering.)

[PaulF]

<snip>
I would vote discs and, more specifically, BB7s.

+1 for BB7s. Got them on both road and mountain bikes took a short while to get used to setting them up but once mastered can be done in a few minutes. Certainly faster than rim brakes

[mrcharly-YHT]

Fiddly to adjust? I've hardly fiddled with my BB7s since I bought them. Even replacing pads just involve turning two knobs.

It was a doddle compared to any rim brakes.

[Kim]

BB7 adjustment isn't fiddly.  Positively the opposite, given the nice clicky knobs and the separation of pad wear and cable stretch adjustment.  But it's important to do the right things in the right order for good results - if the caliper isn't in the right position with respect to the rotor, no amount of knob-twiddling will make things satisfactory.

There's more stuff to do than with a hydraulic disc brake, though.

[Torslanda]

While I strip and re-grease the calipers every couple of years to prevent corrosion, and wipe the resulting grime off the surrounding whatever occasionally, I don't think I've ever actually cleaned a disc.  The brake pads do that.

Yes, Kim but you're NOT likely to empty a can of WD40 over your cassette on a regular basis...

[Kim]

While I strip and re-grease the calipers every couple of years to prevent corrosion, and wipe the resulting grime off the surrounding whatever occasionally, I don't think I've ever actually cleaned a disc.  The brake pads do that.

Yes, Kim but you're NOT likely to empty a can of WD40 over your cassette on a regular basis...

Yeah, I thought that was the sort of thing you'd be dealing with.  Rim brakes have a fighting chance of being further from the blast zone...

[Torslanda]

It usually goes like this:

Mumbling YOOF 'Me brakes don't work'

Long Suffering Bikeshop Owner 'They're soaked in oil'

MY 'They squeak'

LSBO **fx: SLAP!** Followed by a quick basic physics lesson.

[joy of essex]

So it's discs for a tourer.

But  will the  Gilles Berthoud guards fit the frame?

[Brucey]

So it's discs for a tourer....

eh?   There are no compelling reasons for using disc brakes on a touring bike IMHO.

I still like cantis on a touring bike. Simple, powerful enough, easy to fix, you can tell at a glance if the brake blocks/rims are worn.  By contrast in a (steel) light tourer, the whole bike needs to be built heavier to accommodate discs. There is less difference if the bike is a real carthorse to start with though.

I can see some attraction for using discs on a commuter, but in fact (by the time the heavier fork is taken into account) hub brakes are no heavier and require much less fiddling with, vary less if exposed to the weather/road film, and are less likely to be damaged in stupid knocks etc.

I quite like disc brakes on my MTB but I really don't see them as priority items for any other type of cycling. I certainly wouldn't make them the entire basis of my bike choice.

Yes you may wear rims out with rim brakes (moreso in certain circumstances than others) but decent rims are cheap enough that this is not a major running cost. 

IME 'disc specific rims' are often built light enough that they are easily damaged or they crack around the spoke holes, or something.

BTW I currently own bikes with various sorts of discs, roller brakes, hub brakes, and various sorts of rim brake too.

cheers

[Kim]

I quite like disc brakes on my MTB but I really don't see them as priority items for any other type of cycling. I certainly wouldn't make them the entire basis of my bike choice.

No, but it's (as ever) about availability.  If the touring bikes the OP is interested in for whatever other reasons all come with disc brakes (and presumably therefore no option for rim brakes?) then the merits of discs are unimportant.  It's a question of whether they're worth avoiding enough to limit your choice of bike.

On that basis, I'd say that there's no compelling reason to *avoid* disc brakes on a tourer.

Yes you may wear rims out with rim brakes (moreso in certain circumstances than others) but decent rims are cheap enough that this is not a major running cost. 

We're talking tourers.  Rim wear isn't about cost, it's about the possibility of catastrophic failure at the wrong moment.

[PaulF]

IME 'disc specific rims' are often built light enough that they are easily damaged or they crack around the spoke holes, or something.

Just for balance I've been running a set of disc specific rims on my MTB for 8 years with no sign of damage, cracks or going out of true

[CrinklyLion]

I did get a crack at a spoke hole on my disc specific rear a year or two ago.  But that was the original wheel that had been supplied with the entry level Trek hybrid and which must have been 6 or more years old at the time, plus it occurred while a rather heavy me was riding said hybrid loaded (with all the weight at the rear) and off road - and it was far from the first time I'd inflicted that set of circumstances on it.

[joy of essex]

Thank you for your comments.  It seems that if I want a tourer then it will have discs.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I can see some attraction for using discs on a commuter, but in fact (by the time the heavier fork is taken into account) hub brakes are no heavier and require much less fiddling with, vary less if exposed to the weather/road film, and are less likely to be damaged in stupid knocks etc.

Possibly so, but how many bikes are available (in UK) with hub brakes? If building up your own, you'll probably have trouble finding them; SJS list one model (intended for tandems but I don't see why it couldn't be used on a solo), Spa none, Wiggle etc none.

[Brucey]

if you are remotely fussy/discerning you may want to build your own bike up. The OP has already talked about that. You can of course have any brakes you like, that way.

BTW the postulate that 'hub brakes are not available' is ridiculous. SJS have lots, also Isons and 'the Cycle Division' are wholesalers that most LBSs will have an account with, and they supply a plethora of SA hub brakes.

Just 'cause you can't buy it in wiggle or Evans this week hardly means it ceases to exist.....

To put rim failure into perspective, in relation to the number in use, I see at least as many mangled/broken disc rims as I do worn-out rims from rim brakes.

The argument about rims 'failing unexpectedly' could be levelled against other parts too...like, er, tyres....The cure is exactly the same, too; buy decent ones and inspect them as required.  BTW half-decent rims are cheaper than decent tyres and need less attention by far. 

If you look after your brakes, they will not wear rims anything like as fast as otherwise. If you neglect your brakes (regardless of type) eventually something dreadful will happen; with disc systems the whole system can eat itself or you can be left with no brakes.  The system that tolerates complete neglect with least trouble is arguably drum brakes.

Also, this view may not be flavour of the month (and maybe the OP has already made his mind up/followed the herd, so I am wasting my time even mentioning it) but there are plenty of good reasons not to want disc brakes on a touring bike.

cheers

[Cudzoziemiec]

As I said, I looked in SJS and found one.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Okay, a second look at SJS turned up quite a lot. Their product categorisation is a bit crap and you have to search using the search box. The majority, though, are with integrated hub gears.

[Brucey]

As I said, I looked in SJS and found one.

you didn't look very hard....

Okay, a second look at SJS turned up quite a lot. Their product categorisation is a bit crap and you have to search using the search box. The majority, though, are with integrated hub gears.

you looked a bit harder....

Yes there are lots of IGHs but no one is forcing you to chose one; for dedangler users, you can have a rear hub brake that accepts a screw-on freewheel (eg X-RD), or you can have a rear hub (eg X-RDC) that accepts a cassette (8/9/10s/some 11s MTB).  Unless steps are taken (*), the axle will eventually break in the former (axle life reports vary from 10000 to 60000 miles)  , but it is better than average for a screw-on type hub in this respect. 

I think this is a reasonable choice for touring/commuting use, no?

[(*) BTW if you want to, you can stop the axles from breaking in almost any screw-on freewheel hub by fitting an outrigger bearing. Also, you can avoid having to remove the freewheel to (say) repair a spoke on large-flange hubs by removing the sprockets from the freewheel body instead.  Screw on freewheels are old hat for sure but you can buy them almost anywhere, and you can easily have more/more useful (for touring) gears with even a lowly 3x6 setup than with (say) a 2x10]

There's more than one way to skin a cat....

cheers