When is an Audax not an Audax

[Whitedown Man]

Sixteen Cals this weekend. None ‘mandatory mudguards’. Anticipating this thread being overwhelmed by angry cafe owners on Monday morning.

[Si S]

I've fixed you're quote for you, dim ;-)

If you wish to treat an Audax ride like a RACE that's your choice, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be angry or disappointed if others prefer to ENJOY A SOCIAL LEISURELY RIDE

Personally, I think there's quite a bit wrong with treating it like a race, racing is inherently dangerous and I don't want to be sharing the roads with folk who are faux racing. If you want to race, get a licence and go race with other folk who are accepting those risks and where the mitigations are in place.

[wilkyboy]

I've fixed you're quote for you, dim ;-)

If you wish to treat an Audax ride like a RACE that's your choice, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be angry or disappointed if others prefer to ENJOY A SOCIAL LEISURELY RIDE

Personally, I think there's quite a bit wrong with treating it like a race, racing is inherently dangerous and I don't want to be sharing the roads with folk who are faux racing. If you want to race, get a licence and go race with other folk who are accepting those risks and where the mitigations are in place.

If there are riders who wish to get around quickly then let them go at the start:

• Organiser says "go"
• Count to ten
• Go — by then the speedies will be up the road and you won't see them again all day long.

[Kim]

And with regards to mudguard requirements, would you be happy as a cafe owner at a control with soggy bottomed cyclists muddying up their seats?

Not that i'm saying we should excuse/accept inconsiderate behavior, but it seems de rigueur and almost a badge of honor among alot of my cycling acquaintances to come back from a club run looking like they've just competed in a Belgian classic (It isn't for me, I do my own laundry...).

Call me a curmudgeon, but the way I see it, if you haven't been mountain biking (or at least comedy off-roading) then coming back from a bike ride covered in shit simply demonstrates a lack of planning.

[Hot Flatus]

I've fixed you're quote for you, dim ;-)

If you wish to treat an Audax ride like a RACE that's your choice, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be angry or disappointed if others prefer to ENJOY A SOCIAL LEISURELY RIDE

Personally, I think there's quite a bit wrong with treating it like a race, racing is inherently dangerous and I don't want to be sharing the roads with folk who are faux racing. If you want to race, get a licence and go race with other folk who are accepting those risks and where the mitigations are in place.

I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever on an audax, frankly.

The  pace of most audaxers is so slow that if you average 16-17 mph for the ride you are highly likely to never see 95% of the field after the first 5 miles

[whosatthewheel]

Personally, I think there's quite a bit wrong with treating it like a race, racing is inherently dangerous and I don't want to be sharing the roads with folk who are faux racing. If you want to race, get a licence and go race with other folk who are accepting those risks and where the mitigations are in place.

IF they are racing, chances are you won't be sharing the road with them anyway.
I think the OP is probably talking about a brisk 27-30 km/h pace, which is a far cry from "racing"... some find it comfortable, some don't.

Let's face it, if someone thinks that 20 km/h is a sociable pace and 27 is not, is simply because he cannot cycle comfortably at 27 km/h... some can and there is nothing wrong with that

[Redlight]

My reason for coming into audax is because that over the last couple of years, I've been so focussed on going faster, I've actually forgotten to enjoy riding my bike

  to that.  If you're not enjoying riding the bike, what's the point?

As for the various sub-tribes encountered on the rides, I'm just happy to see as large a field as possible on each event and if some of them want to go so fast that they finish while I'm still enjoying my apple pie and custard at the first control, so be it.  I do think it's a bit rude not to at least attempt to complete the Brevet, since the organiser will have made an effort to ensure that there are suitable stops along the way (even if it's only warning a McDonalds that they might see a bit of an uptick in business at 3am), but I also speak as someone who really cares about validation only in PBP years and so has occasionally overshot an info control and turned up at the Arrivee feeling rather sheepish and apologetic.

I think the distinguishing qualities of Audax, such as self-sufficiency, self-navigation, personal resilience, apply no matter what kind of bike you're riding. On that first point, I think the swarm of support vehicles rather tarnishes PBP but, again hypocritically, I am very happy with the direction signs  .  Again, each to his/her own.

[De Sisti]

For those not wanting to, or cannot attach full mudguards to their bikes in order to comply
with the 'mudguard required' request, regarding keeping cafe seats clean, then could the
ass-saver attachment be a solution?

You wouldn't want to ride on a wet and mucky road behind a rider with one of these,
or a rider with normal mudguards without a decently long mudflap.

[Kim]

For those not wanting to, or cannot attach full mudguards to their bikes in order to comply
with the 'mudguard required' request, regarding keeping cafe seats clean, then could the
ass-saver attachment be a solution?

I was overtaken by someone with one of these on a ride recently.  It was installed above a small (puncture kit sized) saddlebag, that was encrusted in mud and therefore looked ridiculous.  He didn't appear to have a badger stripe, though, so either it worked, or the mud was from a previous ride.

[mattc]

As we're talking about mudguards, and we did Helmets a little while ago, I'll raise the question of FLASHING LIGHTS (front and Rear)

Annoying, but unlikely to be an issue on a ride of 100km, which is what prompted the OP...

[Following your inferrence that all 100km rides are in daylight:]

You might be surprised how annoying the things can be in daylight too! Not as bad as in darkness, I'd agree.

Now, what can *I* bring up for us to bitch about ...

[citoyen]

I think the OP is probably talking about a brisk 27-30 km/h pace, which is a far cry from "racing"...

The OP specified that they finished faster than the maximum speed limit; and "a little over three hours" for 100km implies an average speed of 30-33kmh.

You're right, though – that doesn't exactly sound like "racing" pace.

Without actually observing their riding, it's impossible to say whether they were riding safely or not.

[Hot Flatus]

What is certain is that within minutes they were well ahead of the rest of the field of 'normal' (I know, I know) audaxers

[Greenbank]

You're right, though – that doesn't exactly sound like "racing" pace.

I think many Audaxers think that anyone riding faster than themselves is "racing". (A bit like the age old saying about driving: "Anyone driving faster than than me is an idiot, anyone driving slower than me is a moron.")

100km rides are ripe for going fast as most don't have manned controls except for the start and finish, that means there's no mid-point controller holding them back if they're ahead of the time limits. Arriving at the finish before the time can't be penalised in any meaningful way. If the organiser really refuses to validate the card until the appointed time the riders may not bother waiting and the organiser does themselves out of a validated finisher.

[mattc]

I suppose he could lock the doors (and/or the carpark gate) until 5mins before the "Control Open" time ... 

[zigzag]

i can confirm that during nine years of audaxing i haven't seen any signs of racing on audax rides (with one exception being the front group of pbp - it felt like a race without being called such). otherwise folk just ride at their preferred pace and naturally form groups based on their ability/effort. good example from last weekend: we started at a usual brisk pace and there was a group of five of us just riding along, enjoying wonderful weather, taking photos. when two guys started to drop back, i dropped back to helping them to join our group couple of times. but it was clearly out of their comfort zone so there was three of us left. the third guy stuck with us for another hour and we waited several times for him to catch up (the more, the merrier!), but that also couldn't continue for long. at arrivee i've found out that he had no directions or a gps, so relied on other riders to show him the way - not very wise! he was also saying to other riders that "those guys at the front were just hammering like crazy" - i'm sorry but that was only your perception..
the whole "ethos" thing is a made up idea in each person's mind, you make the ride what you want it to be, as long as that fits into audax framework. i had no idea what the hell the "audax" is when i just started riding. my suggestion to the op is to try and find the source of joy from within, rather than putting expectations on others to act your preferred way.

[frankly frankie]

Personally, I think there's quite a bit wrong with treating it like a race, racing is inherently dangerous and I don't want to be sharing the roads with folk who are faux racing. If you want to race, get a licence and go race with other folk who are accepting those risks and where the mitigations are in place.

Nobody wants to race.  The quote you quoted was a fiction.

[Si S]

Personally, I think there's quite a bit wrong with treating it like a race, racing is inherently dangerous and I don't want to be sharing the roads with folk who are faux racing. If you want to race, get a licence and go race with other folk who are accepting those risks and where the mitigations are in place.

Nobody wants to race.  The quote you quoted was a fiction.

I know that...but ..hypothethically....

IF they are racing,

I agree that's a big if since I don't think it's actually much of an issue on the roads full stop, let alone in the niche world of audax. Things that aren't racing:

A couple of riders pushing each other for fun
A group of riders sharing the work to make decent progress
Sprinting for signs (ok, maybe this is, but it's not an audax thing and I don't think it counts)

chances are you won't be sharing the road with them anyway.

You're probably right, I know a couple of guys who race who would see 100km in 3 hours as a quickish social pace, when they really turn it on it's all I can do just to sit in their wheels, however that misses the point, someone is sharing the road with anyone who is racing. I don't care if you're on two, three, four wheels or even a bag of neuroses with hooves, the public highways and by-ways are not the place for racing without appropriate controls (and not the sort that stamp cards and serve cake).

IME the vast majority of those that do want to race, go and race, because they know there's something different about pinning a number on.

I think I'll leave it there.

[Cudzoziemiec]

my suggestion to the op is to try and find the source of joy from within, rather than putting expectations on others to act your preferred way.

That does sound like an ethos! Or at least a philosophy. 

[Hot Flatus]

Four pages of navel-gazing prompted by an OP who thinks the ethos of audax is that everybody should ride as slow as him.

For all he knows those faster groups may have being having the social time of their lives on the road and at controls.

Zigzag has it right. In other words you've no right to have expectations of other riders that you don't know and with whom you've made no prior arrangement.

[whosatthewheel]

Why going at 30+ km/h is racing?

It's a brisk pace, well within the speed limits virtually anywhere... the fact that it might sound outrageously fast to some is not the point... I find 15-20 km/h outrageously slow... where do we draw the line?

I think the highway code is quite clear... unless it is "furious pedalling" there is nothing wrong with a brisk pace... here's my commute this morning, was I racing? 

https://www.strava.com/activities/1515449476

[Greenbank]

I don't think anyone yet has suggested that 30kph isn't really "racing".

[quixoticgeek]

Why going at 30+ km/h is racing?

It's a brisk pace, well within the speed limits virtually anywhere... the fact that it might sound outrageously fast to some is not the point... I find 15-20 km/h outrageously slow... where do we draw the line?

You say that... This is a cycle path in France...





No idea how they would expect to enforce this, but it did surprise me when I saw these signs. One of 2 occasions in recent months where I've broken the speed limit (the other was doing over 70kph down hill in Germany in a 70 limit).

I think the highway code is quite clear... unless it is "furious pedalling" there is nothing wrong with a brisk pace... here's my commute this morning, was I racing? 

https://www.strava.com/activities/1515449476

I've been having an interesting discussion recently about this. I shaved over 2 minutes off the time it takes me to ride to work on one recent commute. Bringing me from when it used to take me 27 minutes, to doing it now in 19:55 as a PB and 20:19 as pretty common. My route goes through two very busy parks, and past a couple of tourist areas. People questioned if it was right that I should be pushing it to get faster times in such conditions. I take the approach that the time doesn't actually matter, and that I will happily bin the time and slam the anchors on to protect anyone else. Given I'm doing about 25-28kph through these parks, and the strava segment record has a speed of 50+kph, I don't feel I'm doing anything excessive...

Curiously, club time trials like you get in .uk, don't seem to exist here, as in .nl, you're not allowed to race on the open road.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

The historic ban on racing on the road in the UK is the reason we have time trials! They circumvented the ban by being individual tests.

There are also speed limits on some UK cycle paths, eg 15mph on the Avonmouth Bridge and on the (old) Severn Bridge, which are both alongside motorways. I'm not sure if they have any legal force, in fact thinking about it they might have been originally introduced to apply to mopeds, which are permitted to use those tracks because they are banned from motorways and so it's the only way for them to cross those estuaries. However, there are other ways of enforcing them; I put a (very small) flat in my rear wheel at the w/e hitting a speed bump on the Avonmouth Bridge path and I was only doing 16-17mph. 

[Si S]

Why going at 30+ km/h is racing?

It's a brisk pace, well within the speed limits virtually anywhere... the fact that it might sound outrageously fast to some is not the point... I find 15-20 km/h outrageously slow... where do we draw the line?

I think the highway code is quite clear... unless it is "furious pedalling" there is nothing wrong with a brisk pace... here's my commute this morning, was I racing? 

https://www.strava.com/activities/1515449476

It isn't, and there's nowt wrong with a brisk pace, even this hippy with a hangover can manage that as a cruising pace on the flat.

Audax is a broad church and it's up to individual riders to get out of it what they want within the regs and the law, it becomes a bit esoteric when you start on the ethos or spirit of the thing because that's so subjective.

[hippy]

I've done plenty of audaxes on a TT bike, with an aero helmet, eating gels, bouncing controls and finishing before everyone else.
But I've also done silly long ones by myself, eating where I can, barely scraping the time limit, sleeping in bus stops, etc.
Then again I've also done some with my partner, taking our time, stopping in pubs or cafes to eat and drink when we please.
I've never used a route sheet (almost did once... for toilet paper). I hate mudguards (but have some).
Just like the rest of you weirdos I ride 'em like I want.