Man shoots woman in incident.

[mrcharly-YHT]

There is a very strong suggestion that he didn't shoot her (south african newspaper leaks) and the gunshot wounds were post-mortem.

[mcshroom]

There's also reports in the Mirror that banned steroids were found at the house and that he is being tested for them. They were using a line 'roid rage' on the google news headline

I think there's a lot of bits of 'information' from 'sources close to the investigation' that are going to have to be taken with very large pinches of NaCl.

[mattc]

This morning's news ticker-tapes were emphasising "a blood-stained cricket bat"     

This could run and run. <please insert acceptable idiom>

[Bledlow]

I think there's a lot of bits of 'information' from 'sources close to the investigation' that are going to have to be taken with very large pinches of NaCl.

Bloody great ladles full, not pinches.

[citoyen]

If anyone is interested in following the trial live, the Guardian's David Smith is tweeting from the court - @SmithInAfrica

[Bledlow]

So, which story is more probable?

Reeva Steenkamp leaves Pistorius in their bedroom & locks herself in the bathroom. He picks up his gun, follows, & shoots four times through the door, hitting her three times & killing her. He then breaks down the bathroom door.

Pistorius wakes up, & hears someone in the bathroom (note: not en suite, but 7 metres away). Thinking it is an intruder, he shoots four times through the door. He then realises that his girlfriend is not in bed, so breaks down the bathroom door with a cricket bat & finds her dying.

If his story is true, I'd not like to be a guest in his house.

[Jaded]

Either scenario requires prosthetics to be put on first.

[geraldc]

He said he was on the balcony, when he heard the noise.

I assume this is all going to be solved with CSI type investigations.

[Sergeant Pluck]

He said he was on the balcony, when he heard the noise.

I assume this is all going to be solved with CSI type investigations.

Perhaps including some experiments to see how likely it is that 3 out of 4 shots would hit their target through a closed door.

[Bledlow]

Either scenario requires prosthetics to be put on first.

He claims that he got the gun & shot through the door without putting on his prosthetics. He said he felt vulnerable without them, hence the shooting. I'm sure he can get around the house without them, if only by crawling.

If I was the prosecutor, I'd ask where, exactly, the gun was kept, & ask him to demonstrate how he moved from balcony to gun to (carrying gun) bathroom. If, as seems likely, it's beside the bed, I'd ask how he didn't notice the lack of a body on the other side of the bed, & the absence of the sound of breathing, at a time when he was trying to move quietly so as not to alert the imagined intruder. I'd ask why he didn't think it wise to make sure his girlfriend was OK before tackling the burglar. I'd question him about the noises he heard, & whether they sounded like noises a burglar might make. I'd ask what he thought a burglar would be doing in the bathroom; whether the light was visible round the door; if so, what he thought about that. Oh, so many obvious questions!

geraldc:

After breaking down the door, he carried her body downstairs. They'll be able to reconstruct where she was, but he must have messed up the scene badly.


Whatever the truth, I think Pistorius has ruined himself. His public image will be destroyed by the trial. A paranoiac on a hair trigger, who'll fire four shots through a door without stopping to check on where the other person in the house is. 

Perhaps including some experiments to see how likely it is that 3 out of 4 shots would hit their target through a closed door.

Well, if you know where the other person is, e.g. if you know she's standing on the other side of it saying "Leave me alone, Oscar", I think it's quite likely. Or if you know the layout & can hear her at the washbasin, or on the toilet . . .

[geraldc]

From watching far too much CSI, I have far too much faith in forensics.

However I note that they still haven't got to the bottom of that guy who took his wife to SA on honeymoon, and the wife was either murdered or killed in a carjacking.

[LEE]

CSI will be able to tell how close she was to the door when she was shot.  That in itself will paint a picture of the scene.

However, unless he confesses, I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Most likely the jury will be told he was on steroids (possibility of "roid rage"), they'd been arguing all day (which wasn't uncommon), and she was stood right next to the door (unlikely that a burglar would be having a chat through the door rather then climbing out of the window).

That's all speculation but, even without that speculation, this looks bad. 
It's common courtesy to check if your girlfriend is having a wazz in the en-suite before shooting the place to bits.   

This looks very bad.


....but it's a common occurrence.  Accidental home shootings account for a large number of deaths in countries that allow people to own handguns (especially handguns).

[Sergeant Pluck]

It's common courtesy to check if your girlfriend is having a wazz in the en-suite before shooting the place to bits.   

I'm wondering where the cricket bat fits into all of this, and what the post mortem showed. It's all a bit messy in the courtroom; the chief investigating officer has said, in reference to bail and flight risk, that "we don't want another Dewani" which I think is very inappropriate. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

....but it's a common occurrence.  Accidental home shootings account for a large number of deaths in countries that allow people to own handguns (especially handguns).

Absolutely. A huge number of shootings.

I know of two people who have been shot.

Both accidental.

On a totally different note; I know he is an elite athlete and has functioning knees, but, carrying an adult downstairs?  That sounds difficult for someone who doesn't have fully functioning ankles and feet to control balance.

[Pickled Onion]

BBC 6 Music has apologised for playing Hendrix's Hey Joe after a news bulletin featuring this story 

[Bledlow]

I'm wondering where the cricket bat fits into all of this, ....

Pistorius says he used it to break through the (locked) bathroom door.

That's another obvious question. Did she usually lock the bathroom door when they were alone in the house?

[clarion]

So the blood was the bathroom door's.  Obv

[Wowbagger]

So far as I can see, everything he's said is perfectly plausible.

Do I lock the door of the bathroom when I'm alone in the house? Frequently. It's a habit. A split-second later I think "Why did you lock the door, you twit, there's no-one here to barge in?" but at least I've broken the anal habit of instantly unlocking it again - it can wait until I've finished.

I don't know how many contributors to this thread have been awoken by a burglar. I have - albeit one who had broken into our garage and not the main part of the house. It's extremely disorientating, and I've posted elsewhere on this forum that if I'd had a firearm available I'd have shot at the bugger as I saw him climb over the garden fence. That, to me, is an excellent argument for not having a firearm in the house, because when blinded by adrenaline, disorientation and fear, the human brain is capable of reaching, and acting on, some very outlandish conclusions.

Could he have carried her body downstairs? Even with stumps, he can shuffle down on his arse, and pumped full of adrenaline, as he must have been, he would have been capable of quite a lot.

Do I believe what he's said? I neither believe nor disbelieve it. Fortunately I will never be called upon to make any decisions in this case, nor, I hope, anything similar to it.

[Jaded]

Do I believe what he's said? I neither believe nor disbelieve it. Fortunately I will never be called upon to make any decisions in this case, nor, I hope, anything similar to it.

Quite agree.

As for disorientation, when we got back to the flat we were staying in (ironically after seeing OP carry the SA flag at the Opening Ceremony) the homeowner called the police. He thought the house was being burgled, despite knowing we were coming.

[bobb]

So the blood was the bathroom door's.  Obv

Good to see you're keeping an open mind...

[mrcharly-YHT]

Well - if he'd shot her 4 times, chances are there was considerable blood splashed on the door. That would have transferred to the bat.

[LEE]

"We have statement of a person who said after he heard gunshots, he went to his balcony and saw the light was on. Then he heard a female screaming two-three times, then more gunshots," Mr Botha told the court, according to AFP news agency.

All speculation at this stage I know...but this is sounding very, very, bad

[Psychler]

Well - if he'd shot her 4 times, chances are there was considerable blood splashed on the door. That would have transferred to the bat.

..... and "blood stained" may just mean a couple of splashes /drips / smears!

[Jaded]

The 'testosterone' was a herbal remedy.

[Bledlow]

So far as I can see, everything he's said is perfectly plausible...

Do I believe what he's said? I neither believe nor disbelieve it. Fortunately I will never be called upon to make any decisions in this case, nor, I hope, anything similar to it.

Certainly, it's possible. I can imagine someone who's terrified of intruders & who has a gun picking it up & shooting when he hears a noise, without thinking of the other occupant of the house. But to my mind, that's a plea of manslaughter, not 'a terrible accident'. It's an admission of killing someone by reckless & dangerous behaviour.

So the blood was the bathroom door's.  Obv

Is that meant to be a joke? Think!

Assume for a moment that his story is true. He breaks enough of the door to get it open, pushes it open, & finds the bloody scene. Even if there was no blood transferred from door to bat during the breaking, he'd have to place the bat behind him to be sure of keeping blood off it, & even then, blood could have got on it (dripped) when he carried her out.

Three bullets in the head & chest. I think there would have been a lot of blood.