Nearly darksided...

[m0rjc]

I had an interesting few hours this weekend. The main contenders where a Giro 20 ATT and a Streetmachine GTE. Such a difficult decision, though Kevin gave good advice.

I tried the red Giro 26 and found that my feet were off the ground, so that was a non-starter. It was the larger frame so maybe a small frame would have worked. The seat height according to Bachetta is 25" for the 26 in mid range (I assume standard frame?) and 23.5" for the 20. Street Machine is also given at 25" and is at the limit for me.

The Bachetta 20 seemed to just fit, and felt fast. I suspect the actual speeds I was going on the relatively flat Fenland roads were comparable to what I achieve on my unladen trike, though maybe with less effort. It was into the afternoon before I worked out how to stop and get off the Street Machine without feeling unsteady - a case of sitting up and coming to a halt with a short run, rather than stopping, reaching down and trying to sit up without firm contact between feet and floor.

The Street Machine really felt like a mile-eater. I could almost fall asleep on it. The suspension does an excellent job. I did try a small section of track down the hill from Kevin's (stopping before it got muddy) and found that I could just drive along on the Street Machine without noticing it. The Bacchetta on the other hand was more bouncy requiring a drop in speed, but certainly did it.

Kevin's advice for me was to go for the Bachetta. This is influenced by the fact that I'm keeping my trike, which still does excellent duty at towing the child trailer and being able to reach out and offer a boost to a 5 year old when it comes to climbing a hill. The Bacchetta would be faster, especially with lighter tyres and possibly a 24" front wheel if I ever fancy trying it. The Street Machine would compete directly with the trike for purpose. The Bacchetta complements it, providing my lunch time outings with friends which I've not done since finding I could not ride the upright bike.

I got off the train early on the way home and found, after the ride home, I did have a little pain in my tailbone. I've not noticed this today so maybe I'm getting used to things. As an aside - the train guards were great with the bike, but I had to get a new bike ticket for it as I was taking a different train to that I'd originally planned. I was asked twice by the person in the ticket office if it was really a bicycle! I took the bike out this evening, and even shot up and down one of our local unpaved Sustrans routes. It handles the surface fine. There's a little bounce in the frame which takes out some of the roughness. Some vibration comes through the steering so I hold it lightly. The previous owner had fitted large Marathon Plus tyres. I wonder why and how that affects things.

This does mean I now have a Specialized Tricross Comp to sell. I'll have to write up more about it and put it around (Velovision or Ebay). It has some nice features. I'd not long replaced the wheels with handmade ones from Spa, and I have front and rear racks for it.

[Kim]

Sounds like you made the right decision.   

FWIW, leg length dictates that I sit forward before putting a foot down on my Streetmachine.  Though I note that arallsopp (who is hardly lacking in the leg department) does much the same thing on his, so maybe it's just the best technique for stability.  Regardless, it soon becomes second nature as a fulid "slow down -> downshift -> unclip one foot -> sit up -> brake to a halt -> foot from the pedals to the ground as you stop -> optionally unclip remaining foot" motion - no Fred Flintstone tactics required.

And yes, 'mile eater' is a good description.  It's a bike that'll happily eat miles, it's just not especially quick about it.

[m0rjc]

I must admit as soon as I learned to do it on the Street Machine I was doing it on the Bacchetta, even though I don't need to. It is easier.

[Kim]

I think staying in the seat is best kept for trikes and lowracers (where you can put a hand down instead).

[Mr Larrington]

Be careful if your shoes have sticky-out cleats though.  Get the rolling dismount wrong and have your foot grip the ground too sharply and your leg gets clobbered by the onrushing seat.  This is called "leg suck" and can, in extreme cases, break yer leg

Not me, a USAnian e-quaintance.

[Kim]

I tend to have the opposite problem: foot fails to grip the ground adequately (usually on wet tarmac), and I fall over sideways.  But a variation on the above is a very strong safety argument for the use of clipless pedals on 'bents (foot slipping off the pedal and getting run over).

[m0rjc]

Commuting this morning I found pain in my tailbone again, and maybe a little upper mid back. The seat is so high at the moment I can see _over_ the cars, so I think I need to lower it. I wonder if the upper mid back is from using over seat steering so fine muscle control in a position I'm not used to.

Weight wise - with the laptop, office clothes and spare clothes (was expecting a downpour) I couldn't expect it to be lightweight. Still climbed well. Getting used to lower speed balance.

I now bring it to pretty much stop, sit up and put my feet down as it comes to a stop.

[RichForrest]

What seat do you have on it?
I find the recurve is too upright for me and gives me muscle ache in my glutes, if laid back too far it catches the back of my legs.
The euromesh has to be laid back a fair way to work correctly, and you don't actually sit on it. The position is more glutes off the front and lay on it! If that makes sense 

Rich

[Mr Larrington]

I tend to have the opposite problem: foot fails to grip the ground adequately (usually on wet tarmac), and I fall over sideways.  But a variation on the above is a very strong safety argument for the use of clipless pedals on 'bents (foot slipping off the pedal and getting run over).

This ^^^^.  But then again, I'm a ruthlessly old-skool sort who still uses Look Deltas on everything except the Towpath Bike

[m0rjc]

I'm on the Euro-Mesh, so I do think it needs to go back more. It also has the universal rack which is pretty important but the vertical seat supports are nearly vertical with the Euromesh. I hope that doesn't stop the rack fitting properly of they go any further back.

Steering is currently keeping my elbows just by my ribs, so if I lay back then I'll have to move it closer to me. Hopefully that's an easy enough adjustment. Kevin showed me various adjustments on it, so I'll try to learn by doing.

 - Richard

[RichForrest]

Try it laid back more and see how it feels. As you lay it back you will need to move the seat along the frame also for leg length.
My arms are more straight and it took me a while to get a really comfortable position on it.
I can't seem to find many pic's of me riding it but this one shows roughly where I sit on it, I actually slide a bit further down it once started.

[m0rjc]

That does look quite low.

I wonder if with the 20" front wheel I'll find that if I go too low I'll be limited by bottom bracket height, as it seem nearly level with the seat.

Interesting to see the trailer works well.

[Mr Larrington]

Interesting to see the trailer works well.

I'm surprised to see it works well.  My Kingcycle used to turn into a hedge-seeking missile over 35 km/h when towing a BoB.

[m0rjc]

I have a Burley Cargo. I've not tried it on the Bacchetta yet - need to get confident with control before I do that.

I found tonight I was using the brakes to stop it getting much over 20mph on descents. First real outings on it, so early days yet. Seat one pinhole down with some improvement. Will try another tomorrow.

[RichForrest]

Interesting to see the trailer works well.

I'm surprised to see it works well.  My Kingcycle used to turn into a hedge-seeking missile over 35 km/h when towing a BoB.

It does get a bit squirrelly when getting towards 60km downhill!! That's only if you stop pedaling though. May have to fit a larger chainring 

[Tigerbiten]

Interesting to see the trailer works well.

I'm surprised to see it works well.  My Kingcycle used to turn into a hedge-seeking missile over 35 km/h when towing a BoB.

It does get a bit squirrelly when getting towards 60km downhill!! That's only if you stop pedaling though. May have to fit a larger chainring 

I've had both my ICE Q and Sprint with a large Carry Freedom trailer behind up to 55 mph-88 km/h, both times with fully camping gear onboard.
They where still rock solid stable at those speeds.
The advantages of 5 wheels ..........

Ps. I tend to stop pedaling around 75 km/h nowadays.

[Nethypete]

Toured for three weeks last summer in France on my Bacchetta Giro pulling a heavily laden Extra Wheel (two tents and camping stuff for four). Only issues were going up hill and they were with me not the set up.

[Mr Larrington]

Bacchetti must be a good deal stiffer at the back than Kingcycles.  Sadly they didn't exist in 1990.

[m0rjc]

One thing I have noted is that there's no rear triangle to ensure your lock goes through. The only thing I can think of to make sure it's securely locked is to buy a small shackle D (which will be lighter too) and a cable (which will make up the weight again) and fasten the D around the junction between steering column and frame. My normal locking through the rear triangle and rear wheel can be defeated by removing the seat support and sliding the whole thing off. Maybe something like the Abus U Mini?

[henshaw11]

In practice - tho' this is with a lower Speedmachine (little chance of sliding the lock off other than fwd, after removing fork, boom/cranks) I usually find it's a longer lock that I need - but then I try to use the sidestand if possible, and the USS bars don't help matters - eg up against roadside railings. But it's probably worth having a smaller lock for the locations that you know will work.