Author Topic: Base training (Read 251863 times)

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #575 on:** 23 March, 2017, 09:26:21 am »

Quote

Muscular endurance is probably improving

I think that is probably correct. I have done a number of endurance rides on the turbo so 2-3 hours at constant heart rate which is far harder than a 2-3 hour ride outside as there are no natural breaks. first time I did 3 hours on the turbo at a constant HR of 132-134 my legs hurt for days afterwards whereas now it is a lot easier.

I also perversely find it easier mentally to do a zone 2 ride on the turbo for 3 hours than a 3 hour ride in the rain and cold in zone 2.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #576 on:** 24 March, 2017, 08:25:33 pm »

new record sprint powers. 5 sec - 883W 10 seconds 782W on trainerroad.

Nice feeling when it starts to pay off.

simonp · « **Reply #577 on:** 24 March, 2017, 08:37:51 pm »

300km tomorrow will provide a couple of weeks TSS in one hit.

rob · « **Reply #578 on:** 26 March, 2017, 06:01:49 pm »

A few weeks back, I think just before my crash I was instructed to do a 4hr ride with my HR 155-165 with a few harder efforts mixed in. Given this is mid-upper tempo for me it's probably 100 mile TT effort.

After 2 hrs I just couldn't get my HR into zone. I blamed the fact it was a bit cold and windy. Coach said not enough carbs. I had taken on a gel every hour and eaten a decent breakfast so I wasn't so sure. Today I did a similar effort but with 4 * 10 mins running my HR at 170 in each hour. I carried more food - bars and gels - and ate at defined intervals. Lo and behold no drop off and lifted HR right to the end. Of course I'm now knackered.

I went back and looked at my stats for the 3 100 mile TTs I did last year and I had a drop off in performance in the second half of all 3. Looks like I'll be taking more food along on the next ones. Just shows you can miss basic things.

zigzag · « **Reply #579 on:** 28 March, 2017, 02:25:04 pm »

started a new build phase (does it mean this post is off topic?

) today with a re-test of ftp. compared to my previous one that has been done on the neo, it increased by 6w, but as neo over-reads by ~13-15w when compared to stages, the actual improvement is more like 20w, which i'm pleased about! also, paced it better this time, however i was still overheating a bit, which resulted in max hr lower by 12bpm. onwards and upwards with a new 280w ftp.

simonp · « **Reply #580 on:** 28 March, 2017, 02:47:41 pm »

You're around 68kg, is that right? So that's 4.1w/kg.

I'm going to re-test next week. I should have recovered from 200k & 300k weekends by then.

zigzag · « **Reply #581 on:** 28 March, 2017, 03:11:41 pm »

Quote from: simonp on 28 March, 2017, 02:47:41 pm

You're around 68kg, is that right? So that's 4.1w/kg.

that's correct!

(my goal for the build phase is to get to 4.5)

simonp · « **Reply #582 on:** 31 March, 2017, 11:52:09 am »

I did my first TR session since The Dean last night. Heavy legs right from the start, it was tough. Managed to get through though.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/5637304-jepson

Ham · « **Reply #583 on:** 31 March, 2017, 09:14:04 pm »

Well, Rubber Gloved it again and I'm back up to 265. I'm sure that's a good thing.

(Despite issues with the erg setting at the beginning of the interval, and a flaky cadence sensor)

rob · « **Reply #584 on:** 14 April, 2017, 08:52:08 am »

Just over 20hrs last week, including taking over a minute off my 25 PB.

12hrs in the first 4 days of this week and a rest day today. Will ride to my parents tomorrow for a 170 mile day that will take me to over 20hrs this week as well to complete this block. 6 days off then, before starting another build towards the longer distances.

simonp · « **Reply #585 on:** 14 April, 2017, 09:46:10 am »

I was getting some progress so now I have a cold.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #586 on:** 20 April, 2017, 09:23:53 pm »

New FTP without trying on a set of threshold intervals so really please with how the training is going. i really struggle with FTP tests so run trainer road about 20-30 watts above what i have recorded as my FTP. So running trainneroad at FTP of 240 and training peaks tells me that i have a new FTP tonight of 218 on a set of threshold intervals.

I just can't be arsed to hurt myself that much for the 20 minutes on a turbo. One day i will get there as i am enjoying the training more and more.

i do find at 58 that i need more total recovery days. I now often need 3 days to recover instead of 2 and at the end of a block of work i can take 5 -7 days off and come back stronger.

simonp · « **Reply #587 on:** 20 April, 2017, 10:11:41 pm »

I'm back! Recovered from lurgy and did 6x6m sweet-spot just now.

It felt pretty easy though HR was a little higher than last time I did this specific workout. Probably mainly the effect of a week and a bit off training on blood volume. If so then my HR should be lower again after a few more sessions.

We have a rowing training camp this weekend so plenty of training load to accumulate.

simonp · « **Reply #588 on:** 21 April, 2017, 12:15:14 am »

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 20 April, 2017, 09:23:53 pm

New FTP without trying on a set of threshold intervals so really please with how the training is going. i really struggle with FTP tests so run trainer road about 20-30 watts above what i have recorded as my FTP. So running trainneroad at FTP of 240 and training peaks tells me that i have a new FTP tonight of 218 on a set of threshold intervals.

I just can't be arsed to hurt myself that much for the 20 minutes on a turbo. One day i will get there as i am enjoying the training more and more.

i do find at 58 that i need more total recovery days. I now often need 3 days to recover instead of 2 and at the end of a block of work i can take 5 -7 days off and come back stronger.

Have you tried the 2x8m test? You have to go harder for 8m (twice). I find it easier to pace.

jiberjaber · « **Reply #589 on:** 21 April, 2017, 09:14:30 am »

Quote from: simonp on 21 April, 2017, 12:15:14 am

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 20 April, 2017, 09:23:53 pm
New FTP without trying on a set of threshold intervals so really please with how the training is going. i really struggle with FTP tests so run trainer road about 20-30 watts above what i have recorded as my FTP. So running trainneroad at FTP of 240 and training peaks tells me that i have a new FTP tonight of 218 on a set of threshold intervals.

I just can't be arsed to hurt myself that much for the 20 minutes on a turbo. One day i will get there as i am enjoying the training more and more.

i do find at 58 that i need more total recovery days. I now often need 3 days to recover instead of 2 and at the end of a block of work i can take 5 -7 days off and come back stronger.

Have you tried the 2x8m test? You have to go harder for 8m (twice). I find it easier to pace.

^^ This, I quite like the 8min format. I bit the bullet and tested again yesterday, first 8min felt a bit too comfortable, I gave it a fair bit more out of the comfort on the second interval and I've got an improvement of just over 10W on my FTP... it's so much better than the 20m protocol... whether they yield the same overall result who knows, but as long as you use the same protocol I would expect it would be fine... I'm presently procrastinating over spending 70mins on TR this morning

zigzag · « **Reply #590 on:** 21 April, 2017, 09:30:36 am »

i choose to suffer through the 20min test because it's more in line with the cycling i'm doing. 2x8min is recommended for crit racers, track riders, hill climbers.

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 20 April, 2017, 09:23:53 pm

i do find at 58 that i need more total recovery days. I now often need 3 days to recover instead of 2 and at the end of a block of work i can take 5 -7 days off and come back stronger.

my dad is a few years older and also finds he needs a bit more recovery, two days after an intensive session is not always enough. imo, there should be an option to enter your age in trainerroad and the schedules should be adjusted accordingly. fwiw, he raised his ftp from 194 just before christmas to 231 now and targeting 250 in summer.

simonp · « **Reply #591 on:** 21 April, 2017, 12:42:20 pm »

I hope that at some point they will add the ability to make the plans more dynamic and adjustable to your training load, and in particular to have a better way of accounting for outdoor miles. Adjusting for age isn't a bad idea; though YMMV and two 60 year old riders with different training backgrounds will respond differently.

rob · « **Reply #592 on:** 26 April, 2017, 08:54:22 pm »

Making a start on the next block of training this week. Been sent a nice mixture of sessions that are now longer with smidges of top end work.

Last weeks break seems to have done the trick and I feel pretty fresh.

13 weeks to the 24hr.

simonp · « **Reply #593 on:** 26 April, 2017, 10:59:52 pm »

Frustrated ATM. Haven't really progressed recently. Hoping for a lurgy free period. I've still got a productive cough hanging over from being ill over Easter. Bah.

Brevet Cymru this weekend. Wonder how that will go.

simonp · « **Reply #594 on:** 30 April, 2017, 03:19:58 pm »

Well, I had a poor night's sleep so was a DNS - helped on another event instead.

Today my punishment was this:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/5837361-leconte

At the end the workout text said "Well DONE. That was Brutal... in fact it's one of the hardest workouts in our catalogue"

So I'm feeling slightly less behind the curve now. Onwards and upwards.

(I failed to complete this one a year ago - my FTP was set a bit too high at the time, so I never got to see that message)

L CC · « **Reply #595 on:** 01 May, 2017, 10:22:36 am »

I've been fairly consistently following the plan for the last 6 months.
I have not enjoyed it much at all, and have very much felt like I was getting slower.
Here's a lovely graph of how much I have totally wasted my time :

Pedal Castro · « **Reply #596 on:** 01 May, 2017, 12:03:28 pm »

Things progressing well for me, hacked 25" of my PB for a 10 yesterday. Compared with last year on the same course when I set the previous PB all the other riders that rode both evens (16) went up to 2 minutes slower apart from one who improved by 1" so on a good day I reckon there's another 30"+ to come of that.

First big test will be the Norlond 50 in two weeks time.

EDIT: I am off on a 5! Shurely shome mistake? Never been higher than a 2 or 7 before, even in a middle markers event...

rob · « **Reply #597 on:** 01 May, 2017, 04:27:31 pm »

Quote from: fboab on 01 May, 2017, 10:22:36 am

I've been fairly consistently following the plan for the last 6 months.
I have not enjoyed it much at all, and have very much felt like I was getting slower.
Here's a lovely graph of how much I have totally wasted my time :

And this is where data chasing doesn't really work for everyone. For what we do - and I'll admit I don't know what your goals are for this year - VO2max and FTP matter very little. I have no idea what my stats were or what they are now, but my PBs are coming down and I *feel* a lot better on the bike.

You're not really supposed to enjoy training but if the process gets you down there's many ways of improving fitness and some of them are quite pleasant.

DrMekon · « **Reply #598 on:** 04 May, 2017, 04:17:21 pm »

My FTP went down relentlessly whilst following the Zwift FTP builder plan. Was dispiriting. I ended up getting a bit of coaching. He basically looks over what I do via training peaks, sends me PMs via facebook, and we go for coffee every 6-8 weeks. He mostly sets me TSS and intensity factor goals, but recently has been getting me doing all out sprint intervals a few times a week.

I use Today's Plan rather than Training Peaks, and I don't have WKO, so can't see all the metrics he looks at. However, I am pleased with the progression in 60m w/kg.

rob · « **Reply #599 on:** 04 May, 2017, 04:29:02 pm »

Was absolutely smashed, cumulatively, by last night. 2 easy days and a complete rest on Saturday, followed by a 50m TT Sunday morning. Let's see how that goes.