Considering entering the dark side

[Phil W]

After suffering with Shermer's neck on the Wild Atlantic Way 2100km audax, which ended it on safety grounds in the end. I'm seriously considering getting a recumbent.

Comfort for the long distance with no neck issues primary reasons, plus I believe most saddle and hand issues also disappear.

I'd like it to be comparable on average in pace to my DF bike, on moderately rolling terrain, I've read about uphill performance. Audax plus possibility of light tours as well, able to fit in back of large estate or fit on bike rack designed for my DF bike.  Fun to ride however that might to be defined. I'm more of a spinner uphill and lover of descents.

Such a wide range of recumbents , I'd be considering 2 wheel variants. Any advice on where to start?

I've measured my xseam and that comes up at 46"

I live in Hertfordshire.

[Kim]

I'd like it to be comparable on average in pace to my DF bike, on moderately rolling terrain, I've read about uphill performance.

That's achievable, with an emphasis on 'average': you'll waste energy if you try to match pace with DF solo bikes.

Uphill performance is, as usual, mostly about power vs weight.  The main reason people think recumbents are slow uphill is that they tend to be heavy (the vast majority you see in the wild are n=1 tourers), and they go faster on the flat (making a weaker rider appear faster by DF standards).  There is a loss of biomechanical efficiency, but it's usually secondary to those effects.

Audax plus possibility of light tours as well, able to fit in back of large estate or fit on bike rack designed for my DF bike.  Fun to ride however that might to be defined.

Plenty of bikes in the 'light tour' bracket, anyway.  Fun to ride is hard to define; they're obviously all way more fun than a DF bike, but differences are subjective.

I'm more of a spinner uphill and lover of descents.

This is undoubtedly a good thing.

Such a wide range of recumbents , I'd be considering 2 wheel variants. Any advice on where to start?

Visit D-Tek (other recumbent dealers are available) and play with as much as you can.  Well worth trying heavier tourers, trikes and other things you don't really want, if only to get a feel for the differences.  Particularly the different handlebar and seat styles.

Buy something you can get a good deal on (so probably second hand), expect to replace it with something else in a year or so when you have a better idea what you actually want.  It's a truism that the bikes that newbies tend to get on with stability/control wise aren't necessarily the best for performance.

'Bent legs' take a few months to develop.  Probably takes a similar amount of time to get a decent level of confidence at controlling a recumbent bike, though a few hours spent practising manoeuvres in a park or industrial estate is well worth it.

[Ian H]

Just to give you some thoughts.

[Phil W]

Quick Google suggest dtek is near Ely, Cambrudgeshire run by a guy called Kevin. No website so presume preferred contact is phone to arrange test rides of a variety of styles.

[Kim]

Quick Google suggest dtek is near Ely, Cambrudgeshire run by a guy called Kevin. No website so presume preferred contact is phone to arrange test rides of a variety of styles.

That's the one.  He's extremely knowledgable, has an astounding array of machines in stock, and intermittently impossible to contact.

[ElyDave]

definite;y try before you buy, Kevin is very accomodating in that way and you can see a few variant of handlebars etc.

Also agree with Kim, buy second hand first, something relatively sedate, with the idea of using it as a training tool for a year or so.  They hold value fairly well, I sold my ICE B2 for the same price a year later to buy a framest to build.   

There are now a few CF frames out there, plus Al and Cr-Mo, but as well as power:weight, there's also the aero advantage to consider depending on configuration. The advantage is very much on the flat and downhil, and need spinning uphill.

[Phil W]

What did you go for second hand Dave?

[ElyDave]

The ICE B2, the new steed being built is an M5 M racer

[Phil W]

The ICE B2, the new steed being built is an M5 M racer

And how did you find the B2 and why have you moved on?

[ElyDave]

The ICE B2, the new steed being built is an M5 M racer

And how did you find the B2 and why have you moved on?

Mine was undegeared for the flats of the fens with a 42-32-22 up front, I found myself spinning out with a following wind.

Overall it was sound enough, disc brakes and capable of taking both 26" and 700c wheels. Not the most aero of 'bents as you were almost perched on top of the wheels, and with a 32" inside leg I struggled to get a foot down. I

The ride was very good, nice and stable, and reasonable cornering, no serious foot strike issues on the front wheel for me.

Somewhat on the heavy side due to the folding mechanism, and not the most aero seat position, though I believe that an adapter to lay it back more is available. Speed wise I averaged the same as my audax ready Al framed df bike, but with hr 10-15 bpm lower on average and as rarely I to the 150's.

Overall though, as a first recumbent it was ideal, a decent turn of speed but not stupid, and reasonably steady.

[Wothill]

I don't think being slower uphill is just down to the bike being heavier. My latest recumbent (Schlitter Encore) is only about a Kg heavier than my little used 753 racer but I still go uphill faster on the upright. I think the most popular explanation is being unable to use all the same muscle groups so efficiently on a recumbent. Dave McCraw ( http://mccraw.co.uk/ ) has gone into it in some depth and is well worth reading.

It's hard to recommend a particular bike to someone else because people all have different priorities not to mention shapes and sizes. I have summed up my own experience here: http://alfstuppence.myfreesites.net/bikes . I haven't updated this account since last year since I have not been able to ride very much this year but I am still delighted with the Encore. I don't know if you could equip it for touring but you probably could. All you really need is some way to fix a standard rear rack to the back of the seat to stop it rotating around the mounts at the dropouts. The Encore has a very adjustable seat so you could move it to a more upright position for touring with a rear rack.
Good luck!
Alf

[Phil W]

Thanks for the replies. I think you're right, some test rides of recumbents of different shapes and sizes to see which makes me smile the most. I'd also like to try the different steering setups of under seat, tiller, aero etc. As I have no idea which I might like though tiller or aero for a place to place a GPS makes sense.

So a phone call to dtek in the near future to arrange some test rides and get a feel for my preferences and what might best suit them.

[Phil W]

It's hard to recommend a particular bike to someone else because people all have different priorities not to mention shapes and sizes. I have summed up my own experience here: http://alfstuppence.myfreesites.net/bikes . I haven't updated this account since last year since I have not been able to ride very much this year but I am still delighted with the Encore. I don't know if you could equip it for touring but you probably could. All you really need is some way to fix a standard rear rack to the back of the seat to stop it rotating around the mounts at the dropouts. The Encore has a very adjustable seat so you could move it to a more upright position for touring with a rear rack.
Good luck!
Alf

Thanks for that your article was a useful read and food for thought.

[Kim]

Thanks for the replies. I think you're right, some test rides of recumbents of different shapes and sizes to see which makes me smile the most. I'd also like to try the different steering setups of under seat, tiller, aero etc. As I have no idea which I might like though tiller or aero for a place to place a GPS makes sense.

Yes, the lack of space for gadgets and stuff is a definite drawback to USS.  Lights aren't a problem; you can usually fit them to the derailleur post with a bit of bodgery (Spacegrip or similar) if there's no other provision, but this isn't a great place for a GPS, as it means you have to sit up to press the buttons, and it's sufficiently far away to be hard to read.  Traditional bike computers are generally okay there, as you tend to interact with them less while moving.

Routesheets and maps are also a problem:  You can't use jersey pockets for anything you don't want  a) squashed  b) smudged  or  c) to cause a bruise  so some creativity is needed for keeping things to hand.

On the other hand, USS wins hands down^[1] for touring or sufferers of hand/arm issues.  You can't beat the comfort.

USS and open cockpit bars make the bike more unwieldy for transport/storage, but usually no worse than typical mountain bike bars.


_{[1] Pun intended.}

[LMT]

Mike Burrows put it perfectly when comparing a DF vs recumbent going up a hill - bikes don't go up hills, people do. The only thing a bike does is go down a hill.

Watt for watt a recumbent bike will match a DF going up a hill, up to a given gradient it will be quicker because of the lower drag, above a certain gradient it will be slower because of the increased weight. But the difference in speed is minimal.

The perception of a DF bike being quicker than a recumbent bike is due to the fact that you can incorporate more muscles when going up a hill on a DF bike. But people tend to forget that this increased wattage due to more muscles groups being used increases HR and will put you rapidly into the red.

In addition to this, climbing a hill on a DF is a painful experience, yet on a recumbent with the right gearing it's a joy.

In answer to the OP I would suggest contacting Kevin at Dtek to try out some bikes, I currently own and run a V20 which is by far the quickest recumbent I have owned due to the MBB FWD system. The transfer of power is unlike what I've seen before having owned and ridden a Low Baron and Metaphysic.

[Phil W]

Do any of you use a hipbelt swung round to the front (and not done up too tight) for snacks and stuff on the go? I have a few hip belts that might serve this purpose.

[LMT]

You can buy recumbent specific jerseys where the pockets are at the front. Vite bikes jerseys are good, IIRC I carried in my jersey on PBP, cleat covers, hydro tabs, shot blocks, phone, a couple of packs of biscuits and some Ibuprofen. Zips are better as you can carry more stuff without worrying that it will fall out.

http://shop.jakroo.com/storefront/Vite-Racing-2013

[Kim]

Do any of you use a hipbelt swung round to the front (and not done up too tight) for snacks and stuff on the go? I have a few hip belts that might serve this purpose.

Seen it done to good effect.  Personally, I don't need anything to make me sweatier.

Same goes for recumbent-specific jerseys, though I have used mountain bike jerseys with side pockets that aren't too problematic with a hardshell seat (mesh seats are wider).

I put things in bike luggage instead  All the valuables are in a dry bag that goes straight into my jersey pocket when I stop.  A tri-bag just in front of the stem on the Streetmachine works for easy access to nibbles/inhaler/train tickets/emergency routesheet on the move.  And there's the infamous derailleur-post-mount GPS and lip balm holder.

I experimented with a chalk bag hung below the seat, but it didn't work very well for my setup.

Banana bags can be rummaged through while riding, if lightly loaded.

[frankenthorn]

The perception of a DF bike being quicker than a recumbent bike is due to the fact that you can incorporate more muscles when going up a hill on a DF bike. But people tend to forget that this increased wattage due to more muscles groups being used increases HR and will put you rapidly into the red.

There's also the fact that the recumbent rider was probably riding with (or at least in the vicinity of) people they would not be able to stay with on a DF.  The aerodynamic advantage was making them look good, but as soon as the road turns sufficiently upwards you fall off the back because there's no aero advantage to be exploited.

In addition to this, climbing a hill on a DF is a painful experience, yet on a recumbent with the right gearing it's a joy.

Interesting, I would say it was completely the other way around!  On a recumbent it's just a slog of keep turning the pedals, don't think about anything, don't fry to do anything else, just keep turning the pedals until the hill ends and you can have a rest.  On a DF, you can stand up and stomp for a while, sit down and spin and generally break the monotony.

[LMT]

The perception of a DF bike being quicker than a recumbent bike is due to the fact that you can incorporate more muscles when going up a hill on a DF bike. But people tend to forget that this increased wattage due to more muscles groups being used increases HR and will put you rapidly into the red.

There's also the fact that the recumbent rider was probably riding with (or at least in the vicinity of) people they would not be able to stay with on a DF.  The aerodynamic advantage was making them look good, but as soon as the road turns sufficiently upwards you fall off the back because there's no aero advantage to be exploited.

In addition to this, climbing a hill on a DF is a painful experience, yet on a recumbent with the right gearing it's a joy.

Interesting, I would say it was completely the other way around!  On a recumbent it's just a slog of keep turning the pedals, don't think about anything, don't fry to do anything else, just keep turning the pedals until the hill ends and you can have a rest.  On a DF, you can stand up and stomp for a while, sit down and spin and generally break the monotony.

Given that I'm 4.4w/kg there's not an awful lot of DF riders I cannot keep up with on a DF. On a recumbent they'd be a mere speck in my mirrors. Did you read the part about how it is about the rider and not the bike?

And you said it, break the monotony!!! LOL. With the right gearing and the comfort of a deck chair I'm just cotching spinning up any and every hill.

[PaulM]

A neck problem was what got me into recumbents at the age of 42. I prefer open-cockpit (aka 'tweener or aero bars) to tiller bars. How tall are you? It helps to have decent leg length if you want a hi-racer (short wheelbase with two large wheels). If I was taller, I'd probably go for a Nazca Gaucho Hi-Racer https://nazca-ligfietsen.nl/en/list/models/item/22/#type=2 This has dual 700c wheels, carbon fork and rear suspension and the seat height is only 60cm - low for a hi-racer format.

[Phil W]

A neck problem was what got me into recumbents at the age of 42. I prefer open-cockpit (aka 'tweener or aero bars) to tiller bars. How tall are you? It helps to have decent leg length if you want a hi-racer (short wheelbase with two large wheels). If I was taller, I'd probably go for a Nazca Gaucho Hi-Racer https://nazca-ligfietsen.nl/en/list/models/item/22/#type=2 This has dual 700c wheels, carbon fork and rear suspension and the seat height is only 60cm - low for a hi-racer format.

I'm 1.84m / 6 foot tall.

[Phil W]

I do like the look of banana bags, neat if expensive. Are they waterproof?

[LMT]

I do like the look of banana bags, neat if expensive. Are they waterproof?

I've got the radical Banana Racer bags which imo are water resistant, waterproof though, no.

[LMT]

A neck problem was what got me into recumbents at the age of 42. I prefer open-cockpit (aka 'tweener or aero bars) to tiller bars. How tall are you? It helps to have decent leg length if you want a hi-racer (short wheelbase with two large wheels). If I was taller, I'd probably go for a Nazca Gaucho Hi-Racer https://nazca-ligfietsen.nl/en/list/models/item/22/#type=2 This has dual 700c wheels, carbon fork and rear suspension and the seat height is only 60cm - low for a hi-racer format.

I'm 1.84m / 6 foot tall.

Okay, more pertinent though is what is your x-seam?

X-seam is the length from your hip to the end of your feet, easiest way to measure is to get a book and an ironing board. Place the ironing board upright at an angle against a wall, sit on the floor with your backside against the ironing board sitting back like you are on a recumbent and push the book out away from you with your feet together, keeping your toes pointing upwards until your knees are straight, then measure from the edge of the book to edge of the ironing board in inches.

I'm thinking your x-seam will be in the region of about 44-46 inches which will be good for all hi racers imo. Ultimately you need to test ride some...