Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 06 June, 2019, 01:48:33 pm
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How on earth do they work? I realize this is only one step away from asking "Who is Johnny Depp?" but bear with me as I attempt to enlighten my particular cavern of ignorance.
The cause of my puzzlement is 'Mrs Hinch', an Instagram influencer currently being investigated by the Advertising Standards Authority* for failing to disclose that some of her influential endorsements were actually paid for by Proctor & Gamble. That all makes sense, bar the slight surprise that the ASA appear to taking some action, but what I don't understand is how her influencing gets found. If it were fashion or just an area in which fashion plays a big role, or any sort of comparison purchase, it would make sense to me. I can see it working very well with bikes and cycling products. Search for "best bikes for audax" and find, say, "Mr Pumpy's audaxing YouTube channel" with reviews of bikes, lights, bib shorts (with pad odour retention test), tyres and so on. Sponsored by Trek and Assos, while "Arabella's Amazing Audax Adventures" are sponsored by Specialized and Marmite. Or whatever. All clear.
But who the hell googles for reviews of Flash and Febreze? This is what baffles me. Still, the only thing I know is that I know nothing and others know even less. So, explain and enlighten...
*What, still an authority rather than an agency?
Cudzoziemiec Postings Inc currently sponsored by Tetley tea, Duerr's marmalade and stilton. Others sources of balderdash and horsefeathers may be available.
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But who the hell googles for reviews of Flash and Febreze? This is what baffles me. Still, the only thing I know is that I know nothing and others know even less. So, explain and enlighten...
OTOH, J Random Millennial, when faced with, say, a pile of pingfuckits that used to be a working freehub, is naturally inclined to search for a YouTube video showing how to put it back together. Well, presumably they'll take the same approach to cleaning the mould off the grout for the first time (when they finally gain responsibility for some grout that isn't maintained by their parents).
Also, you know the radicalisation algorithm? The one that sees you watching videos about SCIENCE and computer games and three clicks later you're watching flat earth conspiracy theories and misogynist propaganda? Seems possible that it may lead you to Frish infomercials if your interests are interior design and impractical shoes, or something.
(Presumably Instagram influencers work like YouTube ones. My only exposure to instagram is via friends who use it to share their art, and their general bitching about censorship.)
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I have recently had to explain this to my 11yo, who has taken to watching things on You Tube and occasionally talks about wanting to be like 'so and so', who he sees making lots of money by being on You Tube, and referring to the products they endorse. Although I am sure all/most comply with the letter of whatever rules are in place to admit that they are being paid to plug products, I suspect that they go as far as they can to give the impression that they genuinely rate or use the products they are paid to plug, in the knowledge that their potential audience is very impressionable.
I've always been puzzled by the concept of celebrity endorsements. For example, much as I admire Richard Thompson's guitar playing, reading that he used XXX strings would not make me go out and buy them. The same goes for cycling kit. I don't care what Geraint Thomas wears - I'm not trying to win the Tour de France.
Similarly, I've told him to take online reviews with a pinch of salt.
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Also, if you apply the "who's the customer" reasoning, it would appear that the 'influencer' thing is mostly about convincing marketroids that you're a viable way of advertising their product, rather than actually convincing an audience to buy it. Hence the emphasis on number of views/follows/likes. (How many of those are from bots left as an exercise for the reader.)
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Okay, I can see the algorithm idea. You start off watching 'How to prepare for your first PBP' and the next but one is either a satanic orgy in a bus shelter or three old men comparing beer labels. Yes, that could lead to Flash v Cillit Bang. Not convinced by googling the grouting though.
@Redlight yes, definitely, but I'm puzzling over finding the endorsements on subjects that are fundamentally unattractive.
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It gets worse IMHO when parents use their children to review items and make a considerable amount of money out of it:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/24/its-not-play-if-youre-making-money-how-instagram-and-youtube-disrupted-child-labor-laws
At the age of six I was mostly interested in falling out of trees and trying to learn to read!
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Not convinced by googling the grouting though.
Some people genuinely love buying cleaning products, though. IME mostly as a displacement activity from actual cleaning. You know the type: Cupboard full of barely-used products, always ready with a specialist wipe for every occasion, and mouldy grout in the bathroom.
Also, there's the whole "life hacks" phenomenon. I mean, if someone makes a video containing 5 genuinely useful tips, 8 things so obvious you'd wonder why anyone would make a video about them, 2 gratuitous product placements, and 5 things that make you think "Okay, but why would anyone want to do that in the first place?", chances are that many people will watch it all the way through. I've watched a couple of those myself, having been lured in by the revelation that there's a proper way to fold a fitted sheet[1] or whatever.
Remember the flylady phenomenon that went round the interweb[2] a few years ago? Never understood the popularity of that.
[1] No, I can't remember how to do it. My preferred technique is to bundle it up into a ball with the elastic holding the outer wrap in place. I do remember how to fold a teatowel so it looks a bit like a plucked chicken, a skill which has failed to come in useful on countless occasions.
[2] Spillchucker wants to replace this with "spiderweb" which is missing the point somewhat.
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It isn't a new thing really or confined to 'millenials'. A 'creative agency' I know was once contracted to find a way of communicating with lorry drivers, because poster campaigns and whatnot were not getting the message through.
The creative bods researched the ground and found out that a lot of truckers watch trucker vlogs (i.e. youtube channels) and so they reached out to them trying to promote their safety campaign through them.
It isn't complicated, it's just finding people who are paid attention to by a given community and getting them on board with your messaging. It needn't even involve money or nowt.
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I should also note that I've bought at least three products[1] after seeing them in Big Clive's videos. Not that I think he really counts as an 'influencer' in the traditional sense. He just makes entertaining/edumacational/ASMR[2] videos about stuff, and occasionally some of that stuff (or, more likely, the tools he's using to destructively review it) is actually decent for something.
I can't remember the last time I saw a mainstream television advert for something and thought "I could do with one of those". Well, not since 1980s plastic tat, anyway. (Yes, I'm aware that this isn't the main way that advertising works, but it's surely an effective one.)
[1] None of which are the Cliff QuickTest™, which you'd think he was sponsored by if you didn't know better.
[2] Come for the explosions and the death-daptors, stay for the innuendo and soothing Glaswegian tones.
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At the age of six I was mostly interested in falling out of trees and trying to learn to read!
I was more interested in trying not to fall out of trees!
Remember the flylady phenomenon that went round the interweb[2] a few years ago?
No.
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At the age of six I was mostly interested in falling out of trees and trying to learn to read!
I was more interested in trying not to fall out of trees!
I was a strange child. :facepalm:
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Remember the flylady phenomenon that went round the interweb[2] a few years ago?
No.
Oh, well done. I got thoroughly bored of people proudly polishing their sinks and so on.
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Remember the flylady phenomenon that went round the interweb[2] a few years ago?
No.
Oh, well done. I got thoroughly bored of people proudly polishing their sinks and so on.
Sounds somewhat euphemistic...
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It isn't a new thing really or confined to 'millenials'. A 'creative agency' I know was once contracted to find a way of communicating with lorry drivers, because poster campaigns and whatnot were not getting the message through.
The creative bods researched the ground and found out that a lot of truckers watch trucker vlogs (i.e. youtube channels) and so they reached out to them trying to promote their safety campaign through them.
It isn't complicated, it's just finding people who are paid attention to by a given community and getting them on board with your messaging. It needn't even involve money or nowt.
Truckers are obviously interested in what other truckers are doing and how the new Scania Megamax performs over the Stelvio, presumably there's a similar community of cleaning product fans. A sort of subculture of shininess and scouring agents.
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The creative bods researched the ground and found out that a lot of truckers watch trucker vlogs (i.e. youtube channels) and so they reached out to them trying to promote their safety campaign through them.
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Presumably, they watch these while driving...
Influencing is just a more modern version of product placement, which always strikes me as glaringly out-of-place. I'm not sure who runs out to the shops because they saw it in a movie. The particularly pernicious thing about influencers, of course, is that they often target the young and impressionable who perhaps lack my cynicism.
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The creative bods researched the ground and found out that a lot of truckers watch trucker vlogs (i.e. youtube channels) and so they reached out to them trying to promote their safety campaign through them.
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Presumably, they watch these while driving...
Influencing is just a more modern version of product placement, which always strikes me as glaringly out-of-place. I'm not sure who runs out to the shops because they saw it in a movie. The particularly pernicious thing about influencers, of course, is that they often target the young and impressionable who perhaps lack my cynicism.
It's a more subtle response that running out to the shops mid-film.
You saw a can of Pepsi being drunk in the film you just saw, and your wandering through the supermarket and reach the fizzy juice, which do you buy? If you're not a died in the wool coke drinker then seeing the Pepsi in the film might be enough to make you grab it instead.
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The fact that you reach for 'the coke and Pepsi divide' is pretty strong proof that it does work. If it didn't work it wouldn't be one of the world's most valuable industries. The most valuable asset Coke and Pepsi own is that you know that they exist.
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but I can categorically state that I have drink neither in the last year, despite knowing they are there.
it can be extremely lucrative as an influencer this guy, https://www.mrwhosetheboss.com/ (https://www.mrwhosetheboss.com/) is my nephew, works in the area of tech, mostly phones. Samsung flew him to Barcelona for a weekend, gave him phones to play with and payed him a ridiculous amount to do so. knowing what he does though hasn't made me buy a new phone, but if I do, I know who to ask.
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I'm not against influencers.
If we didnt have them we would have missed out on watching flabby proto-facist Carl Benjamin get ideas above his IQ level, stand as an MEP and in the process get utterly owned over and over again by Jess Phillips, a milkshake and a some mackerel
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but I can categorically state that I have drink neither in the last year, despite knowing they are there.
and I can be sure that I'll look at which is cheaper unless theres some sort of tempting offer on that makes paying slightly more appear worth while.
But #Fifer
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interesting this phenomenon. I was discussing it with someone who pointed out that if eg Tailfin get their rack on a YT channel with eg 26k viewers, it may be more effective than taking out advertising in Cycling Plus/Weekly etc. So someone like Mark Beaumont is a sure fire way to promote a new light/rack etc whilst someone who does every audax available but doesnt vlog it is going to have to 'manage' with what they have. Adam Watkins bemoaned the lack of Tailfin support but came up with his front rack/basket on the GWR audax. Looks great if you haven't seen this hack. celebrity endorsment has always been there but it's trickled down to people who are savvy about the internet.
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Audax as a gateway drug to detergent-based solutions to coffee-stained environment?
(Surveys chaos of Great Hall)
Nope, not buying it.
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/aa/81/3a/aa813a2f9299cc06b82e81146619b65b.jpg)
The Baked Beans endorsement may have been significantly more successful than the one of the Simplex Motor Company.
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Audax as a gateway drug to detergent-based solutions to coffee-stained environment?
(Surveys chaos of Great Hall)
Nope, not buying it.
Bizarrely, today I saw, clamped to the rack of a bike parked in the car-and-bike park of a film production company, a bottle of water and a bottle of washing-up liquid (hippy eco variety).
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but I can categorically state that I have drink neither in the last year, despite knowing they are there.
It doesn't matter. They've got the important work done: you know they exist, you discuss them with other people, the sale cycle is 90% there.
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but I can categorically state that I have drink neither in the last year, despite knowing they are there.
It doesn't matter. They've got the important work done: you know they exist, you discuss them with other people, the sale cycle is 90% there.
Indeed. See also the Coca-Cola Christmas Truck. Usually encountered in sentences like "WTF is the Coca-Cola Christmas Truck, and why should I give a shit that it's coming to Birmingham?", it's still doing its job.
Not that I've ever drunk a Coca-Cola in my life. Well, I had a mouthful once or twice as a child when people tried to persuade me that sickly carbon dioxide burns were in some way pleasant. But here I am, ranting about it on the internet, as opposed to, say, Irn-Bru or Panda cola.
(I have on occasion bought it for other people's consumption. Especially since <fat coke>[1] is one of the few commonly available drinks without sweeteners that barakta disagrees with.)
[1] BSL gloss. It's not as amusing in English.
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but I can categorically state that I have drink neither in the last year, despite knowing they are there.
It doesn't matter. They've got the important work done: you know they exist, you discuss them with other people, the sale cycle is 90% there.
I do not discuss them with people, only YACF'ers
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It was pointed out to me yesterday that the 'radicalisation algorithm' works in cycling with no intervention from social media or online sources. You start off as a run of the mill roadie, banging out PBs on carbon and lycra. Then after a particularly filthy winter club run, you decide to fit race blades, but you check the forecast everyday and only fit them if rain is due. Then you think you might as well leave them on all winter but after Easter you remove them. Then it rains again so you put them back on and soon you decide to fit permanent chromoplastics. Next winter you're the grumpy old git moaning at the newbie because they don't have a mudguard to within six degrees of the horizontal (it's in the club regulations, look, drawn up in 1922). After that the only future is audax with personalised mudflaps.
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When I got to the stupormarket on my Utilitarian Adventure in the rain today, for the GREAT BRITISH TRADITION of SUNDAY TRADING LAWS, I found a cut out of "Mrs Hinch" advertising the aforementioned Unilever cleaning products. I didn't buy any though.
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It was pointed out to me yesterday that the 'radicalisation algorithm' works in cycling with no intervention from social media or online sources. You start off as a run of the mill roadie, banging out PBs on carbon and lycra. Then after a particularly filthy winter club run, you decide to fit race blades, but you check the forecast everyday and only fit them if rain is due. Then you think you might as well leave them on all winter but after Easter you remove them. Then it rains again so you put them back on and soon you decide to fit permanent chromoplastics. Next winter you're the grumpy old git moaning at the newbie because they don't have a mudguard to within six degrees of the horizontal (it's in the club regulations, look, drawn up in 1922). After that the only future is audax with personalised mudflaps.
I think that's just a variation on the "all bikes eventually turn into touring bikes" rule.
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This even happened to my Velomobile. I bought a racing model (the current record holder, no less) and slowly ruined it by making it suitable for touring.
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Then there are all the people who buy sensible hybrids and slowly remove the rack, mudguards, lights, fit slick tyres...
I suppose if you could say "all bikes end up as either touring bikes or racing bikes" that would be a sort of radicalisation...
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This even happened to my Velomobile. I bought a racing model (the current record holder, no less) and slowly ruined it by making it suitable for touring.
I was wishing I'd left my front mudguard on during actual racing last weekend.
Not as much as I wished certain tricyclists had some mudguards, admittedly. A fountain of skog is an effective anti-drafting measure.
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Then there are all the people who buy sensible hybrids and slowly remove the rack, mudguards, lights, fit slick tyres...
Is that a thing? I thought they bought them like that (possibly along with a Hump rucksack cover), and were in the process of realising why those 'accessories' were important.
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Both. Speed is addictive.
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Both. Speed is addictive.
Up until something goes bang and all your skin comes off, yes.
n+1 is more addictive.
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Yes. You start with amphetamine then MDMA then you graduate to the really hard stuff: velocity.
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Now I'm not sure if we're talking cycling, future prime ministers or differential equations.
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Talking of future prime ministers, has anyone else noticed the similarity between these two characters?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/657635676553355264/v0-wdQ_u_400x400.jpg)
Coke-abusing elder statesman*
(https://res.cloudinary.com/dods/image/upload/c_fill,g_center,h_500,w_1120/v1/polhome/UK%20politicians/goveface_rljrhg.png)
Future lead singer with the Undertones
*He may have confessed to a Pepsi habit too. And definitely Mars bars.
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Some members of my family are 'influencers'.
They have cats on instagram. One channel is for their pair of burmese cats; 122k followers. The other is for some weird thing that looks like a fox; 112k followers. They post photos and vids of the cats every day.
The photos of the cats are syndicated. There are calendars.
I'm pretty sure that my son-in-law hasn't had to buy the fancy cat litter tray (it is robotic), or the cat tower, or any of the other cat gadgets.
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I guess when you've got your photo on displays in supermarkets, you've crossed the line from influencer to celebrity endorser. Without ever having to act/sing/do sport... in fact, if a celebrity is someone who's famous for being famous, you're almost the definitive celebrity!
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Anti-influence is the new influence: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/03/ice-cream-los-angeles-instagram-influencers
$4 for a cone? It had better be really good ice cream (looks like Mr Whippy... )
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Today I are writing about "the 61st most influential social media entrepreneur in the UK". No, I hadn't heard of him before.
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I continue to be exposed to the bizarre world of the fashion influencer! (At least in fashion it makes sense!) Which is how I've discovered this article by a "content creator" – he doesn't like being described as an "influencer" – about the use of bots and other ways to "inorganically" grow your Instagram following.
https://gallucks.com/hunting-for-witches/
(This is not the 61st most popular guy mentioned above.)
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Also:
Brands feel pressure to work with more and more influencers and are usually very last minute in selecting who they work with.
How about prominent AUKs as influencers for Carradice? ;D
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https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/12/influencers-are-faking-brand-deals/578401/
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1. Brands are now getting free advertising.
2. Brands have actually lost control of their marketing.
3. It's just another way of flexing what you don't have, along the lines of those South Italian villages where (supposedly) people going into hiding for a couple of weeks every summer in order to convince the neighbours they've gone on a holiday they can't actually afford.
4. Faking your CV is nothing new.
These random thoughts were brought to you by the brain fingers of Cudzoziemiec. Cudzoziemiec, Cudzo and the cycling narwhal symbol are registered trademarks of YACF Productions plc.
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Influencers are just a symptom of the pathetic state of society today.
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It's seems more the failure of critical reasoning and resilience amongst many people. It ought to be possible to be bombarded by messages and do a cynical yeah, whatever and to a degree that's a learned skill that it seems people increasingly aren't learning. The world is full of people who are more attractive, richer, slimmer, taller, etc. and yeah, social media will expose users to that, along with whatever they want to sell as part of their influencing package. But I don't think it can be wished away or somehow banned – people have to learn to deal with it.
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Isn't 'influencing' just another way of getting a product name out there and into the consciousness of people?
My Dad used to work in advertising a little - well he was a computer bod for Granada TV but was involved somehow in the advertising end of things - and his take was always that making things memorable is how the most successful ads work. If you are bombarded continually with 'fairypersil' in pics, ads, t'internet videos essentially, then when you go down the supermarket you are more likely to plump for it since it's a known and 'comfortable' thing. Often it's almost to the point of an unconscious bias - or at least that's what the seller wants it to be if at all possible. That's why 'chicken tonight' was such as massively successful ad campaign - not because it was 'good', but because it was so annoying it stuck in the brain.
Unless they're an idiot* I don't think anyone goes - ooh, look - Kym Kardashian uses 'shakomatic grease proof cleanser' - they just know it when they get to the supermarket. Getting to be a well known brand name is very powerful.
*Or maybe the idiocy is mine for having too high an opinion of people currently.
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Unless they're an idiot* I don't think anyone goes - ooh, look - Kym Kardashian uses 'shakomatic grease proof cleanser' - they just know it when they get to the supermarket. Getting to be a well known brand name is very powerful.
This definitely happens in cycling even among the pros.
Remember when Wiggins started not wearing socks on the track just to see if people started copying him? They did.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/why-are-the-gb-pursuit-squad-not-wearing-socks-195819
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True I suppose, but they want greater volume sales than that I suppose - probably the advertising agency statisticians know the proportions well.
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Knowing people who work in PR/advertising, it's quite astounding how easy it is to influence people and worryingly, how often it's the case that people are, in fact, being manipulated. At least once-upon-a-time there used to be a critical layer of media, but now that's gone with direct-to-social or to existing media willing to simply collect the money for publishing something (or accept the cost-saving for a ready-to-publish article, which is all-important when people are increasingly unwilling to pay to read and free-sheets have mass circulation).
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Not wearing socks on the track is a great opportunity to introduce special no-sock track shoes. I presume special track racing shoes exist already.
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/me rushes off to patent special socks for use with sockless track shoes
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Don't forget to promote them on Instagram and YouTube making clear the differences between sockless shoe socks and sockless sandal socks.
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I know that when I was the security lead for BT Openzone the key elements that had to be protected we’re the BT brand and image. It had to be a major consideration when any risk assessment for new features was undertaken.
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Don't forget to promote them on Instagram and YouTube making clear the differences between sockless shoe socks and sockless sandal socks.
I note that GCN have already cornered the market in sockless track racing sandal socks. (https://youtu.be/MIsa0L5UNgs?t=137)
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Looks a bit like Andre "Stanley" Brinks! :o
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Influencers exerting the wrong influence?
The Fred Perry brand found itself in the unwelcome spotlight this week when one of its brand ambassadors tweeted that he would no longer wear Fred Perry clothing in the US, now that the self-described “western chauvinist” Proud Boys group have adopted the black-and-yellow striped polo shirts as their unofficial uniform. The company has repeatedly distanced itself from the Proud Boys, describing them as “counter to our beliefs and the people we work with”.
Not sure about the rest of the article though.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/far-right-fred-perry-mainstream-fashion-camouflage-brands