Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: TimO on 10 April, 2008, 06:39:03 pm

Title: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 10 April, 2008, 06:39:03 pm
OK, so I've just taken the plunge and ordered one of these.  The main drive behind going for the Active 10 over, things like the Garmins, is that this has OS 1:50000 mapping on it (or mine will anyway).  I've found the mapping on the Garmin models to be somewhat minimal, and not particularly easy to read.  I like OS Landranger maps.

I've ordered the map which covers the entire southern half of the country (http://www.satmap.com/ukstore/includes/map_preview.php?map=SM-UK-GB-50-SD-003.jpg), so I'll probably start planning a holiday in Scotland now. ;D

With a bit of luck, I should get this very shortly, and I can test it out on the FNRttC next Friday.

I know there are some issues and limitations with it, but it looks like the latest software has corrected some of the worst of these (assuming my unit comes with that software version).

Has anyone else been using one of these?
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: woollypigs on 10 April, 2008, 06:43:36 pm
Oh bother there is a good change that I will not be there on the next FNTttC, as I would love to see the satman in the flesh so to speak.
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: TimO on 10 April, 2008, 06:50:45 pm
Well, assuming things don't go horribly wrong with this ride, I plan on doing a few FNRttCs, and the Dun Run in a few months time, so the chances are you'll see it eventually.  This does of course depend on the 2-4 days express delivery actually working!
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: Rob S on 10 April, 2008, 07:57:42 pm
By far the biggest Satmap community can be found here:

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=133

Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: Rob S on 12 April, 2008, 11:11:45 am
After first hearing about Satmap back in February it’s finally here in my hands…at the end of October….a week or so after their website was finally launched. I'm not going to dwell on this too muchI'm pretty much posted out on the subject elsewhere.

First Impressions

The boxes:

After first hearing about Satmap back in February it’s finally here in my hands…at the end of October….a week or so after their website was finally launched. I'm not going to dwell on this too muchI'm pretty much posted out on the subject elsewhere.

First Impressions

The boxes:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/boxes.jpg)

The Satmap is well presented in a matt black finished two drawer box like many a mobile phone…you pull the top drawer to the right and the lower drawer slides to the left by magic (a magic that’s been patented by Burgopak). The unit sits wrapped in a bag in the bottom draw. The top draw holds a USB cable,  3 Energiser LITHIUM batteries, a very nice padded pouch (with embroidering!), a branded lanyard to fit either the unit or the pouch, a couple of spare covers for the USB/audio socket and the paper work. The catalogues and Quick Start guide are printed versions of the ones you can see in PDF format on the website.
The map card box is also of the two drawer design with the card in  it’s case sitting in the lower drawer behind a sealed window, the breaking of which indicates you are accepting the license terms.
Included in the top drawer of the map card box…another Map catalogue. The catalogue lacks descriptions or indication of areas covered by the regional mapping cards although these are available in the map section of their online shop. The catalogue also has a voucher worth £10 off a custom made digital map card which could for example be centred on your home.     

The bike mount.

It has to be said that the photo that Satmap gave the various online sellers didn’t do justice to the price or sturdiness of the thing. For £25 you do get a very sturdy and surprisingly heavy Klickfix mount and a replacement battery cover that has the male connector on it….a rubber ring on the male connector adds a bit of cushioning. There is no slackness or play when the unit is connected to the mount. The unit will still fit in it's protective pouch with the mount specific back on it but not quite as neatly.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/back.jpg)

The underside of the strapping has lines of thin rubber grip strips on it to aid gripping…much like the kind of thing you get on the tops of arm and legwarmers. The mount can be used on a handlebar or by unscrewing the female connector and turning it 90 degrees mounted on a stem or top tube. Bear in mind that in stem/top tube mode it can’t be adjusted for angle…it will hold the screen parallel to the stem/top tube. The mount holds the screen 6cm above whatever you’ve mounted it to. The removal of the unit from the mount is very quick and easy

The unit.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/screen.jpg)

The Satmap unit itself appears to be very well made (in China) and is dominated by the 70x53mm LCD screen…..which comes supplied with a clear thin plastic sheet which is probably best left on…it doesn’t affect the appearance of the screen.  The buttons described as ‘Soft Keys’ in the manual are not soft…I was expecting rubber buttons from that but they are actually hard plastic. The power and backlight boost buttons are soft buttons. Along the bottom edge of the unit is the mini USB socket and 3.5mm jack….these are covered by a tight fitting piece of rubber that is not permanently attached to the unit….this no doubt explains the inclusion of two spares.

After putting in 3 NiMH batteries (I’ll save the Li batteries for best!) and pressing the power button the screen comes to life with a winter themed splash screen….I also put my SD card map (the Southern GB 1:50,000 map at £99 the same area covered by the similarly named Memory Map map  offered in 2003 and 2004.…(the Version 5 offers less area as the northern limits is governed by county borders rather than a straight line across the country just above Liverpool).

The GPS took several minutes to find a signal…..they always do the first time they are ever used apparently, plus I was sat in doors what with it being about 2300hrs and chucking it down.

On subsequent power ups the wintery splash screen appears and then after several seconds your location is indicated on the supplied base level map…looks a bit like Googlemaps…a couple of seconds later a note on the screen indicates the presence of an SD card and then a splash screen of the map appears (like the sticker on the SD card) …press the right front button to view the map and after a second or three the screen is filled with 1;50,000 mapping. For some reason the default location of the initial view is Leicester…pressing the front left button brings you to your location….it might do this automatically if switched on outside with a GPS signal or maybe I need to set a location….the manual doesn’t say.

The Quick Start user guide.

For me  the Quick Start user guide is a far too quick, as I said earlier it is a printed version of the PDF version on the website and reading it before the unit arrived left me with plenty of questions which Satmap have left you to find the answers to yourself.

The most serious omission is the complete lack of assistance in connecting it to a computer and uploading your collection of GPX files from Bikely or Memory Map or whatever. In fact there is no mention of a computer anywhere in the guide….you wouldn’t even know that you CAN upload and download GPX files….there is a brief mention of it on the bottom of the box as being a feature…and on the website FAQ page.

Plugging the USB cable in to the unit and my XP equipped PC made the PC recognise Satmap and it appeared as a Removable Disk (either with or without the SD card installed) but clicking on it or sennding a GPX file to it says that it needs formatting….which needless to say I won’t be doing until I have spoken to Satmap. Copying a GPX file to the SD card using a card reader failed to make it appear in the list of routes on a page on the unit.

There are many, many features which the guide does not tell you about…I’ll list through some of them that I’ve discovered so far.

A roads have occasional additional road numberings which appear on the maps as though added as a mark…this means you have more chance of the road number appearing on the screen than if you just relied on the original OS markings. It’s not done for B roads however,

You can zoom out to allow about 3km in width appear on the screen in one go whilst still maintaining resolution to render yellow roads and smaller writing effectively. Zooming out further and the Satmap shows a 1:250k OS roadmap. Scrolling around a map requires one initial joystick movement for button menu tabs to appear and then another to actually move…slowly at first and then it gradually sppeds up with the odd white patch on the map as it gets redrawn Bear in mind my map card is a seamless map of the southern GB…a county map may be more fluid.

On the map screen you can toggle between having no data overlay, or two boxes or four. The screen pictured earlier has two boxes, four would add the same height again (ie the boxes don‘t get smaller) . You can decide what data appears in each box…..options include Clock, elevation, Date, a little compass, the direction you are heading in degrees,  OS grid reference of your current location, trip distance, trip time,  current speed, route name sunrise or sunset time (!), max speed, average speed, average moving speed, then various options for when you are following a route including ETA or distance to route end or next way point or Point of Interest  etc.


The sunset and sunrise times correspond to where your GPS location is and are the same as indicated on a website that features a calendar based on your postcode….yes I actually checked it for accuracy!.

Part 2 of the review is to follow after going out with it….and after communicating with Satmap about the computer connection.     

Right, so part two….the thoughts from it’s first ride…..an 80 mile ride around Dartmoor.

I’ll start off with a couple of pics of it on the bike.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/mounted1.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/mounted2.jpg)

It’s fair to say it sits quite high when on it’s mount but it is very stable even on bumpy roads (no rattles) and the strap grips the stem very well. Depending on what lighting setup you have you may welcome the extra handlebar space it offers. A Minoura Space Grip may lower it but I can’t see it being any more tidy.
You may be able to see from the head on shot that the shape of the groove the stem sits in positions the unit very slightly to the right (as viewed in the picture).

I’ve never had or used a GPS before so I was very pleasantly surprised to see the accuracy of my location on the road in relation to that of the map. As you ride the route you have taken is marked by red dots. The only time my location differed to that on the map was through a ‘tunnel of trees’ and the unit showed me going parallel to the road but about 50 metres or so from it….this only lasted about 200 or so metres.

I could see the screen fairly easily though it doesn’t appear to be anti-reflective. The brightness of the backlight is very adjustable with 10 levels including off (for very bright conditions).

The Active 10 can display your elevation and this figure is derived from the map data rather than GPS or a barometer. The only problem with this is that the map data bases it’s heights on the raw ground rather than the road….so riding along a flat dual carriage through a cutting will make it display you climbing the original hill, riding across a viaduct will show you descending down the valley and up the other side. You could at least take account of these things after the ride if you wanted your total climbing and descending figures to be as accurate as possible…not something you can do with an incorrect barometric derived figure.

I mentioned in Part 1 that little road number labels have been added to supplement the original road markings on the map….very useful when you can only see small sections of map at any one time. Only two problems encountered with this on my first ride and here is an illustration of one of them….

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/screen2.jpg)

You can see in the middle of the screen that the dual carriageway is labelled A3079 but it’s actually the A30! The A3079 is a couple of miles to the northwest and doesn’t even join the A30!
I also saw this kind of error with the A382 being labelled A383 between the A38 and Newton Abbot.

Prior to my first test ride the only trails I had created on the unit had been caused by location errors when the GPS had it’s first ever weak signaled liason with the satellites. Despite being sat on my bed it  showed I’d traveled several miles towards the north east at a maximum speed of 110mph. This ‘journey’ caused a bit of a problem the first time I tried to see my Trip Log about 25 miles in to my first test ride. Although at the beginning of the ride I had cleared that ‘Trail by error’ I didn’t realise that the Trip Log needed to be reset as well….it had kept the details created by that first trail, added my current details….and for good measure added the 3-4 days inactivity between the two to the Total Time….87 hours to ride 25 miles!?

Anyhoo…here is a pic of the Trip Log at my second stop, 27 miles after resetting it at the 25 mile mark.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/screen3.jpg)

You can see it displays all the usual useful info….total time and time moving are shown in hours and minutes only, Strt Line Distance is Straight Line Distance from the original start point. The triangles show where the highest and lowest elevations are. Whilst riding I compared the Speed Now with the speed on my cycle computer…on flattish roads the two were pretty much the same but there were differences when going up and down hills. It is also worth pointing out that when you turn the unit on and off the GPS can go walk about whilst it picks up a signal this causes the snail trail to show that you have traveled several kilometres in a strange direction and this also affects the accuracy of many of the data fields, not least the maximum speed which shot up to 85mph later on my ride.

Now is probably a good time to talk about a couple of issues.

The Active 10 froze twice on my ride…at 36 miles and again at about 70. The first time it happen I had parked up to tighten a bottle cage bolt and when about to set off I tried to pan around the screen to see where a nearby lane led and I found none of the buttons or the joystick worked. The Power button worked so I simply turned it off and on and then went on my way. The second time I was coming to the end of a small route that I had input to test it’s ETA and Distance to End features and see what the route marker on screen looked like. Coming up to the roundabout I set as the route end the Distance To Go was showing 226 feet for rather a long time, I went round the roundabout and down the road and decided to stop and check some settings and again the buttons didn’t work….but this time the Power button was one of them and I had to undo the battery cover and remove and put back one battery before continuing. There is a mention of this problem in the Troubleshooting page of the manual….it says this may be due to incompatible data or power supply problems and to remove and refit the batteries….my guess is that this is caused by it being powered by Windows.

I think I’ll leave battery life for a while longer before coming to a conclusion…..a lot is made of it in the advertising and product previews…in an email to Satmap a couple of months ago they were talking about a life of 25 hours from 3 AA NiMh cells….this could very well be with the backlight off and the screen off after a couple of minutes because my first ride with it saw 4 hours of use at screen always on and light at 80 plus an evening of playing around with it on the first day of ownership from 2500 mAh batteries. It also says in the manual that the optional data boxes 2/4 boxes mentioned earlier uses extra power…not sure how.
You may see from one of the above photos that at 1502 the battery had three bars left (it had shown three bars since 5 minutes in to the ride)….but the crappy photo below shows what it was showing three minutes later…a flashing purple screen saying the Active 10 was shutting down with a countdown and one bar showing!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/rks040472/screen4.jpg)

 put some fresh batteries in and it showed 4 bars for the rest of the ride…about 2.5 hours.


I’ll give it another couple of goes. There is a Lithium Polymer battery option on it’s way that claims 60 hours of life.

A very big issue for me and no doubt many others is current lack of ability to upload and download routes from a PC to the Active 10. An email to Satmap asking how to do this brought this response  We found that ActiveSync was generally giving users of other (non Satmap) products some headaches, and we therefore decided to produce a simpler, more stable version, designed specifically for the Active 10 series More details about handling gpx files will be available on the web closer to the time. The User Forum is also in the process of construction, and will be released as soon as possible

A couple of other things whilst I’m thinking of them. The ETA and time to route end or way point function is based purely on a speed which you manually input in the Settings….choices include several walking speeds plus 10,15,20,25 miles per hour…it is not worked out based on your current or average speed.

You have a choice of mapping orientation on screen…North Up or Track Up….Track Up turns the map so the direction you are heading is at the top of the screen….very useful if you just want to follow roads easily at the expense of ease of name reading.

This review now needs updating as a couple of extra features have been provided since this was written....expect one soon.
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: woollypigs on 12 April, 2008, 12:34:52 pm
Thank you very much Rob, I really think this unit is for me now. If it worked with linux and the small issues get fixed e.g. in firmware upgrade. I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: TimO on 15 April, 2008, 04:22:48 pm
It currently looks like delivery isn't going to be for three week minimum;

Quote
Satmap have held back our consignment of the Active 10 has they are doing an important update to the batch to repair a system fault with the units.  The estimate for us to get the new version is W/Com 5th May 2008.  If you are unable to wait then we can refund your sale but be aware that units that are still available in the marketplace currently will be the old unit with the system error.  Sorry for the delay but it is out of our hands while Satmap remedy the issue.

Which seems reasonable, but is still annoying.  Ho hum.  You may yet see it Woolly, if it arrives in time for May's FNRttC, which is on the 23rd May 2008, so that'll given them a couple of weeks to deliver it!
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: Rob S on 16 April, 2008, 05:57:06 pm
It currently looks like delivery isn't going to be for three week minimum;

Quote
Satmap have held back our consignment of the Active 10 has they are doing an important update to the batch to repair a system fault with the units.  The estimate for us to get the new version is W/Com 5th May 2008.  If you are unable to wait then we can refund your sale but be aware that units that are still available in the marketplace currently will be the old unit with the system error.  Sorry for the delay but it is out of our hands while Satmap remedy the issue.

Which seems reasonable, but is still annoying.  Ho hum.  You may yet see it Woolly, if it arrives in time for May's FNRttC, which is on the 23rd May 2008, so that'll given them a couple of weeks to deliver it!


Where have you got that from?
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: TimO on 16 April, 2008, 06:47:40 pm
Where have you got that from?

A crowd called Global Gizmos (http://www.globalgizmos.co.uk/).  They are quite a bit cheaper than other suppliers, £284 for the Active 10 itself, and £89.99 for the "Great Britain 3: Southern" 1:50000 mapping, whereas most places have it at £119.99.

It seemed like a worthwhile discount, as long as I get it eventually.  If there is anything dodgy, then it's on the credit card, so I can always claim it back from them.
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: Rob S on 17 April, 2008, 05:47:13 pm
Where have you got that from?

A crowd called Global Gizmos (http://www.globalgizmos.co.uk/).  They are quite a bit cheaper than other suppliers, £284 for the Active 10 itself, and £89.99 for the "Great Britain 3: Southern" 1:50000 mapping, whereas most places have it at £119.99.

It seemed like a worthwhile discount, as long as I get it eventually.  If there is anything dodgy, then it's on the credit card, so I can always claim it back from them.

Oh right....are you aware of what the system fault is? Is it related to firmware v1.15? Or something more serious?
Satmap were selling unts and updating peoples Active 10s in person at the Outdoor Show with version 1.15 and they discovered a bug that locked the units up if 'Location' was chosen as one of the Data Overlay boxes and so came up with v1.16. 
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: TimO on 17 April, 2008, 07:56:37 pm
Oh right....are you aware of what the system fault is? Is it related to firmware v1.15? Or something more serious? ...

Not a clue, the quote in my post above is pretty much the entire email I was sent.  I guess I'll find out what version of software I get in a couple of weeks time.
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: TimO on 09 May, 2008, 02:43:25 pm
Which seems reasonable, but is still annoying.  Ho hum.  You may yet see it Woolly, if it arrives in time for May's FNRttC, which is on the 23rd May 2008, so that'll given them a couple of weeks to deliver it!
...currently delivery appears to be likely mid-next week, with the FNRttC on Friday, so if I'm very lucky it'll arrive just in time for the ride. <fx: crosses fingers>
Title: Re: Satman Active 10
Post by: MikeFromLFE on 09 May, 2008, 09:13:02 pm
Where have you got that from?

A crowd called Global Gizmos (http://www.globalgizmos.co.uk/).  They are quite a bit cheaper than other suppliers,

snip.

Note - Personal Opinion Follows -> I had a mountain of trouble with Global Gizmos, who seem to advertise stuff that they haven't actually got in stock, but are very reluctant to cancel orders they can't fulfil. I won't use them.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 09 May, 2008, 09:43:31 pm
I suspect that is the case, but there does appear to have been issues with the supply of the units, so I'll give them a while longer.  I must admit I don't generally like using some company which I've never heard of, and whose website doesn't scream "big professional company", but they were substantially cheaper than anyone else.

It's on the Credit Card, so if all else fails I'll get the money back from the Credit Card company, and they can fight it out with Global Gizmos.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 29 May, 2008, 12:11:28 pm
Wahay!  Just got a phone call to say that it will be in the post today, and should arrive tomorrow! :thumbsup:

(Wonders whether to take tomorrow off...)
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 29 May, 2008, 01:44:10 pm
Congrats in advance, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.

My Etrex HCx arrived this morning - neat little item. Wish I had the day off tomorrow too  :(
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 30 May, 2008, 09:29:32 am
Initial finding; It's very very easy to break off the metal bit that you turn to lock/unlock the battery compartment.  I managed to kill this on both my standard back, and the one for the bike mount. :(

The compartment has to be pushed hard onto the back of the Satmap, if there is even the slightest tightness when you try and turn the handle bit, it will break, very easily.  It's quite a fragile join between the ends, and it's the bit where it's attached to the spindle that you rotate.  It turns out that when the back is firmly pushed against the unit, it turns quite easily.

I've had to bend a short bit of wire into a temporary repair, so I can get into and out of the compartment, and so that it holds in place.

(http://jakal.sp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~timo/Satmap_Broken_Back_250.jpg)
Click for bigness (http://jakal.sp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~timo/Satmap_Broken_Back.jpg)

It is a very neat unit otherwise, I've fitted the mount to my bike (temporarily shifted the spare front light out of the way), and I'll try it out on the commute into work shortly.

More comments to follow!
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 31 May, 2008, 03:51:44 pm
Here's a useful, money saving tip, if you want to use the Lithium battery, and are happy to charge it via the USB connector on a PC or laptop, you don't need to spend £45 on the Power Bundle, you can just buy a Spare Battery for £30 and use a standard USB cable to connect the Active 10 to a suitable USB port.

The Power Bundle does give you things like an adapter and plugs for most type of mains sockets around the world, as well as a car lighter adapter, but if you know you can use a USB socket for this purpose, then you don't need all these bits, and can save yourself £15 (assuming you have a bog standard USB to mini-USB cable).
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: PloddinPedro on 17 July, 2008, 03:48:21 pm
If anyone's interested in the Active 10, note they've just issued a software update which apparently cures the glitches some early adopters were experiencing.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 17 July, 2008, 04:15:26 pm
Interesting, do you know where the update is?  I can't see anything on their website.

As for early adopters, I bought mine a couple of months ago, and great toy though it is, it crashes as soon as look at it. I've learnt to avoid touching any of the controls whilst it's in use, fiddling is a good way to encourage it to go castors up. :-\
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 17 July, 2008, 04:20:09 pm
OK, I've found it (http://www.satmap.com/software.php).  They haven't gone out of their way to make it obvious...  :-\

Quote
Please make sure you have registered your device to recieve e-mail notification of updates.

Yes, it's registered.  Did I receive notification?  Did I buggery. >:(

There's a new version of SatSync to go with the new firmware as well.

Hopefully this firmware will be a mite less buggy, with a bit of luck I'll find out on the FNRttC tomorrow (must remember to get the batteries on charge).  Looking at the version history, it implies that the stability was improved with versions 1.18 and 1.19 prior to the new 1.20, which is the first I've ever heard of them. :-\
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: PloddinPedro on 17 July, 2008, 06:40:45 pm
V1.18 was kicking around as a beta version for download at your own risk - it wouldn't always load properly. V1.200 seems OK though. I did get an e-mail notification, but not until several days after I'd stumbled over it on this forum: Pocket GPS World  (http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=133) which seems to be the place where most of the chat about this product turns up.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Rob S on 17 July, 2008, 10:48:52 pm
I did get an e-mail notification, but not until several days after I'd stumbled over it on this forum

Yeah me too....not had a chance to try it out yet as I'm in broken shoulder mode for another week or two.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 18 July, 2008, 10:26:18 am
I've installed it, it seems to work, insofar as the unit hasn't crashed yet!  The look and feel is pretty much the same as originally, it's not a vast change in the way anything works.  I need to cycle across Croydon and try not to get lost in the one way systems, so I'll give it a brief test shortly.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: jellied on 18 July, 2008, 10:56:31 am
Found some more clues here:

Satmap have released v1.2 of their system software along with v10.23 of their desktop PC Planning Software - SatSYNC. Unlike earlier releases, the latest version is available for download direct from Satmap's website http://www.satmap.com/software.php  (http://www.satmap.com/software.php) although you must have a minimum of v1.16 before you can take advantage of this upgrade.

It is not yet clear what improvements are part of the latest SatSYNC beta but the v1.2 release of the system software contains a number of new features including:

Charger Control
SDHC Support
Improved map zoom handling
UTM and MRGS Coordinate schemes
Improved memory handling
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 18 July, 2008, 03:06:03 pm
I noticed some of the additional stuff, but not being German, or needing anything other than OSGB coordinates, a lot of it isn't much use.  I did see that you don't seem to be able to turn it off when charging, only turn the screen off.

I'm just hoping that the improved memory access is a euphemism for "we've removed the memory leaks which caused half the crashes". ;D

It'll get a longer term test tonight when I do the FNRttC, although I won't be fiddling with it too much, and I may set the screen to turn off after a short while, so that the battery lasts the entire night.  When I used it during the Zombocalypse ride, it did get confused and stop displaying new mapping about half way through the ride, with a bit of luck that sort of thing will stop happening.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 27 September, 2008, 11:47:32 pm
For anyone else whose got one of these beasties, I noticed on the Satmap website, that they are selling a 1:14000 A-Z map of London now.  The website is a bit broken, and won't show an image of the coverage, but it looks like it could be useful.  It is another £60 though...
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 13 February, 2009, 07:22:01 pm
Now you've had it ages, & (I presume) loaded up all the software updates, what do you think of it?

I've just been given one for my birthday, & since Wiggle messed up delivery, knew what was coming a few days before it arrived, so I've had a chance to read reviews before playing with it. They vary from "best thing since gears" (shuddup, all you fixie fans) to "might be nice if it wasn't so bug-ridden". I get an impression (he says, hoping) that the software issues have been resolved. What have you found?

What about batteries? Would high-capacity NiMh AA rechargeables be adequate?
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 13 February, 2009, 11:13:41 pm
I'm still very happy with it.  The latest software update added a few little features, I guess they'll continue to gradually release various bells and whistles.  It's pretty reliable now, compared to when I first got it, and it had a nasty tendency to crash from time to time, or stop updating the mapping on the screen.  I've updated it two or three times now, and after the first one the "crash-ness" of it improved dramatically.

I don't see any reason why it won't work with NiMH batteries, especially since Satmap sale them on their website!  The LiIon battery probably lasts longer, but it does cost £30 (incidentally, if you are happy charging it using a laptop or PC, you don't need the £45 power bundle, it just provides cables, a mains charger, and a car charger in addition to the battery).  Obviously with NiMH AAs, you'll have to remove the batteries to charge them.

The latest software is Version 1.3, if you haven't got it, it's worth downloading it from the Satmap website.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: PloddinPedro on 13 February, 2009, 11:35:24 pm
......What about batteries? Would high-capacity NiMh AA rechargeables be adequate?
Yes they're fine. They don't last quite as long as the Li-pol cell in my experience, but I think it depends a lot on the quality of the rechargeables you have. I've used some 7Day Shop 2700mAh NiMh rechargeables satifactorily Someone else reported good results with Duracell Supreme 2650 mAh NiMh batteries. I find that it runs quite a while before the battery condition indicator drops to three blocks, then the time between three and two blocks is a bit less, but once at two blocks it depletes comparatively quickly. If you run it with the screen auto shutting down, once at two blocks you can find it's run out and powered down while in sleep mode without you realising it.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 14 February, 2009, 12:03:16 am
Ta. Useful comments. I'll have to check the software version. Fortuitously, since buying my new charger, as recommended by Charlotte, I have found that my buggered set of batteries is actually one buggered (down to 40% capacity, i.e  AH) & three sound ones. Exactly the right number for my Active 10.  :thumbsup:

I've installed Satsync on my PC & ordered another map card, to give me proper coverage of the places I want to cycle. Perhaps by next winter they'll have good coverage of Europes ski areas, but for the moment, I'm awaiting the online route planning & route sharing the Satmap website promises. They'll be very useful enhancements.

It's going to take a little while to learn how to use it properly, I think.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 14 February, 2009, 12:30:43 am
... Perhaps by next winter they'll have good coverage of Europes ski areas, ...

The only country that you seem to be able to get mapping for, aside from the UK, appears to be Holland (https://webwinkel.anwb.nl/published/webshop/verzamelingen/satmap-active-10.nl.html), although I don't know whether a Dutch card will work in a UK Satmap or vice versa.  I do visit Holland occasionally, and I was wondering about taking my Brompton on the plane next time, so it could be useful!
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 14 February, 2009, 12:42:45 am
In the FAQs it says "Maps are now available for Holland, Germany, Norway, Switzerland, Austria. Maps for France, Spain, Ireland and Northern Ireland will be released in Q2 2009.", but I've not found anything other than the Dutch maps on the website. They must be hidden somewhere.

It also says this -
"At present, there are no marine charts supplied for use with the Active 10. However, we are licenced partners of the UK Hydrographic Office and intend to introduce marine charts on SD Cards later in the year."

Handy for those with boats.

I imagine that now the product is established in the UK market, with stable software & good map coverage, expansion into new markets must be a major priority for Satmap.

Aha! Norway! Det ultimate GPS system med siste generasjon kart - Satmap : langt foran (http://www.uglandit.com/satmap/index.php)
Coastal charts - http://www.uglandit.com/satmap/bat.html 
But the tab for "Kart" (i.e. map) on the Hovedside (Headpage) doesn't work. A work in progress, methinks.

I'd never heard of it until a few days ago. I must thank Mrs. B again for finding it & buying it for me. It looks like a good choice on her part.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Horizon on 14 February, 2009, 02:19:31 pm
I imagine that now the product is established in the UK market, with stable software & good map coverage, expansion into new markets must be a major priority for Satmap.

I disagree, I think a major priority should be delivering on the promises they made at launch time - over a year ago - including online route planning and support for Apple, both of which some of us are still waiting for. Too long.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: PloddinPedro on 14 February, 2009, 06:06:47 pm
The Route Planning and Route Sharing Forum is now available for brave souls to test in beta form if you wish. See: this link (http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=459047#459047)

Also, you may find this post interesting, vis-a-vis forthcoming developments:this link (http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=74374)
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 15 February, 2009, 12:13:37 am
Ah, good stuff on the planned European map releases & the route planning/share.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: cycleman on 01 February, 2010, 08:54:29 am
i have just ordered one of these from amazon this morning  :) ,  i have never had a sat nav before so it should be intresting. any tips for a newbie  :)
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: PloddinPedro on 02 February, 2010, 10:58:19 pm
Where to start?!  Best advice if truely starting from scratch, is to "Read the Manual" - then play with it a bit and go and read the manual again! Sorry, that sounds facetious but joking apart, most of us jump in, which is the best way to learn, but then forget to go back to the book, which in the case of the Satmap is much improved over the first offering. You have to download it from their website though; the thing you get in the box is just a guide to getting going.

There's a lot of info. at: Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras  (http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=133)

Don't be put off too much by some of the negativity on this forum; as with all these things, you only get people posting when they have a problem, but if you look around on it, there's a lot of useful gen.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 08 February, 2010, 10:10:32 pm
Wot 'e said.

Also . . .

Make sure you register it with Satmap.

Check the website occasionally for software updates.

I found that in bright summer sun, the backlight isn't bright enough - but if the light really is that bright, you can see the screen quite well with the backlight turned off, & it saves the batteries.

I don't know whether you've splashed out on the battery pack. I've found that three slightly knackered NiMH rechargeables (originally 2.4 amp hour, but reduced to below 2 AH) were enough for any day ride, but since someone gave me the Li-pol battery pack for christmas, I've found it lasts a lot longer.

The handlebar mounting bracket is a standard Rixen & Kaul/Abus part. There's a cheaper & lighter version, the Klickfix mini-adapter or Abus RBKF mini, which holds the satnav just as well, but can't easily be moved from bike to bike. I got a couple of 'em dirt cheap from Cyclesense (an excellent retailer), for mounting on different bikes, but I don't know if they're still selling them cheap. Looked like old stock - but nothing wrong with them, & a good buy.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: cycleman on 12 February, 2010, 06:34:01 pm
thanks for your advice both of you  :thumbsup: . i found i was very near their base they said when i phoned them i could visit them and over a very nice cup of tea i was shown how to get the best out of it . i also found out that the beta version of the mac software is available to download from their website. no use to me but may help someone O:-).  i now have it mounted on the mirrior mount on my trice and am looking forward to giveing it a good test when the weather warms a little  :)
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 04 March, 2015, 12:46:14 pm
The Li-Pol battery I'd had for years, but which was showing no signs of reduced life, suddenly failed due to a wire connecting the battery to the plug. This was surprising & disappointing, since the battery has pretty much lived in the unit since being given to me, & I can't see why there'd be any strain on it.

But - I told Satmap by e-mail saying (mildly) that I was disappointed - & within ten minutes I got an e-mail telling me I've ordered a new one, priced at £0.00p, with free shipping!


Only question now is whether it arrives in time for Mrs B to use on the Kennet Valey 100, or whether I'll have to stick some other batteries in it.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: P Walsh on 04 March, 2015, 01:52:32 pm
I've had an Active10 for a few years now, and I like it for walking but don't use it for cycling. I find that I can't really study the map on the move, so having it on the bars means I will be stopping a lot. And in rain the unsealed screen shield (outer screen) lets water get in, making the image difficult to make out. But for walking it is good. I still take a paper map to see a wider area, though.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 13 March, 2015, 08:43:40 am
It arrived the day before, & powered the GPS all the way round with no problems.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: hatler on 19 October, 2015, 03:15:10 pm
I've finally taken the plunge and bought a second hand Active 10 in readiness for the next family cycle touring trip to France. I reckon it will make the daily navigation just that little bit easier. I will be taking maps but will use these each night to enter the following day's route directly into the unit. I can't be doing with planning the rides out at home before we set off. I want to have the ability to make the route up as we go, sort of.

Initial impressions are pretty good. Straightforward to use once you've done a bit of ploughing through the instructions, and entering routes on it is also simple, if mildly tedious, but not insurmountably so.

The mount is indeed very robust, well impressed with that.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bledlow on 21 October, 2015, 11:30:11 pm
I find entering routes best done by plotting 'em on a computer & then transferring 'em to the satnav.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: hatler on 21 October, 2015, 11:43:11 pm
For sure, but I'm not taking a laptop with me when we go touring, and I want to have the ability to make a route up on the day.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: P Walsh on 23 October, 2015, 07:15:51 am
I've finally taken the plunge and bought a second hand Active 10 in readiness for the next family cycle touring trip to France. I reckon it will make the daily navigation just that little bit easier. I will be taking maps but will use these each night to enter the following day's route directly into the unit. I can't be doing with planning the rides out at home before we set off. I want to have the ability to make the route up as we go, sort of.

Initial impressions are pretty good. Straightforward to use once you've done a bit of ploughing through the instructions, and entering routes on it is also simple, if mildly tedious, but not insurmountably so.

The mount is indeed very robust, well impressed with that.

There are two main problems with using Active 10s on your handlebars. The first is the usual problem of trying to see the screen on a sunny day. The second is that water easily gets in behind the outer screen, making the image hard to read. I find mine better for walking.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: hatler on 23 October, 2015, 07:32:40 am
Hmmm. That's certainly sub-optimal. I'm rather hoping that its principal use will be in Brittany/Normandy next Summer where IT WON'T RAIN. For the sunshine problem we'll have to try the 'turn the backlight off' trick.

Which GPSs do work in bright sunshine ?
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Kim on 23 October, 2015, 12:21:58 pm
Which GPSs do work in bright sunshine ?

eTrexes and I'm fairly sure Edges have reflective/transmissive screens.  They're fine[1] in bright sunlight without backlight, fine in dark conditions with backlight, and a bit murky in cloudy conditions.  It seems to be the best compromise for this sort of device, at least until someone manages to make a GPS unit with an e-ink display.


[1] Except when the angle is such that the outer layer of the screen reflects the sun into your eyes.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 18 July, 2016, 06:39:34 pm
Having had problems with water ingress due to the "toggle" switch failing, I'm interested in whether the ProSHIELD Bike Case (https://satmap.com/accessories/protection/proshield-bike-silicone-protective-case-black.html) will help.

It supposedly ups the protection level from IP65 to IP67 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HakrQIPMEmE), which is the difference between being sprayed with a water jet for 3 minutes, versus being immersed under 1m of water for 30 minutes.  I'm not sure I'm convinced about that, since there's a damned big hole in the back where the bicycle mounting goes, but if it does make things a bit more waterproof, it'll be worth £30.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 18 July, 2016, 06:46:27 pm
I'm also wondering about using my B6AC+ battery charger (http://www.tme.eu/gb/Document/80b8904278bf12d38351cab750f1eec2/IMAX-B6AC_V2.pdf) to charge the battery, without using the Satmap itself (so I can charge two batteries at once).

The B6AC is perfectly capable of being configured to charge the Satmap's battery (which is just a fairly standard 3.7V 2.7Ah Lithium Polymer battery), but I'm not sure what the connector is, and it'll require a certain amount of luck and searching to determine that.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: hatler on 18 July, 2016, 08:42:14 pm
Note the last line on the ProSHIELD page - "Please note: The ProSHIELD BIKE does not protect against total immersion in water."
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 18 July, 2016, 10:00:13 pm
Note the last line on the ProSHIELD page - "Please note: The ProSHIELD BIKE does not protect against total immersion in water."

Which does make Satmap quoting it as being IP67 somewhat hilarious !

I never expected it would provide that level of protection.  My Garmin Virb Elite can supposedly be operated underwater, but I'm not keen to test that.  ;D
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: hatler on 18 July, 2016, 10:31:39 pm
It's the non-bike protective case (https://satmap.com/accessories/protection/proshield-silicone-protective-case-black.html) which is immersible, and for that one they do quote IP67. I can't see any mention of IP67 on the page for the bike case.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: TimO on 19 July, 2016, 11:19:31 am
It's the non-bike protective case (https://satmap.com/accessories/protection/proshield-silicone-protective-case-black.html) which is immersible, and for that one they do quote IP67. I can't see any mention of IP67 on the page for the bike case.

Ah fair enough, my bad.

With a bicycle the main issue is going to be rain blown into the bike from the front, which may be an issue depending on the orientation of the unit's base.  The issues I've had with water getting into the "joystick" was from more vertical ingress using it in light rain, when the rubber cover had become compromised from wear.

I'll look at it, when it arrives, and see if it will be helpful to put a little self amalgamating tape around the periphery of that hole, but I'm just hoping the case will make things better, and definitely not immersible!  (unless something goes seriously wrong with my bicycle route. :o ;D ).
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bolt on 07 March, 2020, 07:23:31 pm
Apologies for being very late to this party but I have just picked up a secondhand Active 10 plus to have a play around with.  I assumed I was getting a unit with only the basemap installed as there is no SD card.  However, I found what appears to be a full UK 1:50000 OS map when I zoom in beyond the base map and then through the road map.  Just curious to understand if this was a standard offering for the "plus" model?
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Adam on 07 March, 2020, 09:38:45 pm
I've just powered mine up for the first time in 18 months (now use Active 20), and the battery is still charged!  Mine was the original 10 which has a 1:250000 base map, so I assume the Plus does have a better built in map.  It also has postcode lookup which the original doesn't have.
Title: Re: Satmap Active 10
Post by: Bolt on 07 March, 2020, 11:15:53 pm
Thanks Adam, I've also managed to confirm with the original owner that the pre-loaded 1:50k map was a standard offering for the plus units at the time.  Given the fact this model is probably over 10 years old I have to sat that I'm pretty impressed!