Eliteism in Audax

[Chris S]

An extraordinarily well-balanced post, Chris and not at all the sort of thing I expect from an incorrigible cynic.  Buck your ideas up or I'll make you sit at the front!

I'm slightly less cynical on Sundays.

[jamesld8]

Just because Audax is `long distance` does not follow that can`t have elite level riders in it, cyclists who are superlatively fit, fast and have stacks endurance. Twice on BCM 600 whilst on outbound leg I`ve encountered riders returning who are 100km up on me after 400km  I have absolute respect and feel humbled by their performance which to me is well beyond my abilities, and will remain so

But three years ago I saw 100km as a big distance, 200 as extraordinary and now find myself heading towards PBP something I would never have contemplated three years ago. So OP don`t limit your vision but I do agree that the very occasional thread / comment I`ve seen which has expressed elitist comment about distance being it all has put me off a little too, We can all only do what we can do, but also maybe dare look a bit beyond what we feel we can do

[Karla]

I'm all for a bit of elitism in spelling 

[Lars]

Not sure, but part of the problem might be the distinction in official Audax terminology as 200k being the starting
point of "proper" long distances. And shorter ones being slightly derogatory called populaires. With lower speed limits,
only very few awards available and no points system. Maybe that rather unfortunate distinction can make some posts
seem overly belittling towards shorter distances? I've done events 50k up to 1,400k, and during the actual rides
haven't experienced any bad spirit or elitism of any kind as far as I can remember. Mainly good camaraderie and respect
between riders and their various goals and circumstances.

[Philip Whiteman]

You are correct in your assertion regarding elitism but fortunately the elitists are a very small minority.  I know quite a few people on this message board that started their audax career by riding brevet populaire events before progressing to randonee distance and beyond.  Everyone has to start somewhere and the BPs provide an excellent entre to audaxes and in some instances, are the main stay of participants' audax riding.

You will always be more than welcome to enter my two BP events: The Sunrise & Snowdrop Express in February and From Clee to Heaven in July. 

[Banjo]

I am very elitist. I never talk to the fast riders.

Mainly because they are gone by the time I get to the controls.

There are bound to be a few less agreeable folk in an organization with thousands of members but the vast majority I find  to be friendly and encouraging to people of all levels of ability .

[drossall]

... I`ve encountered riders returning who are 100km up on me after 400km  ...

I've encountered riders who appeared to be 100km up on me after 100km

[Bledlow]

I'm all for a bit of elitism in spelling 

[jamesld8]

... I`ve encountered riders returning who are 100km up on me after 400km  ...

I've encountered riders who appeared to be 100km up on me after 100km

that`s bragging and getting elitist 

[mattc]

If anything I observe a lot of "reverse-elitism" here.

If all the people claiming to be full-value, lanterne-rouge, back-of-the-pack etc etc really were ....
well, we'd have to train special teams to process arrivals in the last 20mins of every event. And there'd be no point in putting the kettle on until an hour to go.

[Ben T]

+1  i was about to point out the "reverse elitism" before I even read Matt's post.... If someone turns up in jeans on an old banger out of a skip I feel positively intimidated. If he thinks he can do it on that, what right have I got to indulge myself in the decadence of cycling kit and a bike that probably cost more than his car?

Also yes there is far more boasting about how slow you are than about how fast you are - it's just not regarded as offensive. Perhaps it should be

[Phil W]

Today I manned a control at the halfway point, on a BP 84km event.  The ride has sweepers from our club, who stay behind the tail enders. When the sweepers turned up, they said I should have seen 78 riders. My sheet only had 76 entries and I was sure I hadn't missed anyone. The sweepers said they were definitely the last riders. 

After the sweepers had gone my missing 2 riders turned up. Two ladies who'd got lost and done an extra 12km. I was eating some food, having seen what I'd been informed were the last riders. They weren't feeling great, and were considering dropping out. Told them to get some food and drink and plenty of time yet.  I was due to cycle a little of the remaining route to get back home.

We set off together up a long hill , and I escorted them round the rest of the course and controls. We had a good chat, and as it was local I was able to inform them of some of the history hereabouts.  We caught the sweepers up, plus a couple of other riders. They were so pleased as finishing, and I got lots if thanks along the lines of "we couldn't have done it without you" and "we would have dropped out at the last control". It was really gratifying to get that thanks, even though it was not requested or needed. All I did was plant the idea that they could complete it in time, plus also keep the pace nice and steady for them. No need to rush, plenty of time still, you're doing fine.

I'm a SR, going to PBP, but definitely not elitist. Today was really satisfying being a volunteer (on which audax depends). I wasn't expecting to help some tail enders reach the finish. But again, we all help where we can. So don't be put off.

[Banjo]

Barcud Coch perm time limit 14 hours 53. my time 14 hours 47.

My full value credentials are not just internet bragging Ill have you know

PS  Yukon boy  well done  2 people finishing with smiles has to be better than 2 packing never to audax again.

[Mr Green]

I have been riding Audax for three year's now and have not experienced any of the negative feeling that Chrometop describes. Far from it, I love the low key feel of the events, and have only been amazed by the humble nature of riders who are accomplishing incredible distances.

I don't quite understand this recent bashing of those at the top. YACF is a broad forum; we should all be intelligent enough to enjoy listening to members talking about their level of riding, without feeling that we are somehow being denigrated or left out. Audax is inclusive, but it is, after all, a points based long-distance cycling club! Audax is niche enough lets stick together kids!

Just remember - My Cycling is not better than your cycling - it's all cycling.

Arthur
 

[Ben T]

I have been riding Audax for three year's now and have not experienced any of the negative feeling that Chrometop describes. Far from it, I love the low key feel of the events, and have only been amazed by the humble nature of riders who are accomplishing incredible distances.

I don't quite understand this recent bashing of those at the top. YACF is a broad forum; we should all be intelligent enough to enjoy listening to members talking about their level of riding, without feeling that we are somehow being denigrated or left out. Audax is inclusive, but it is, after all, a points based long-distance cycling club! Audax is niche enough lets stick together kids!

Just remember - My Cycling is not better than your cycling - it's all cycling.

Arthur
 

Or even degregated

[Cycling Daddy]

One of the things I enjoy about Audax is that many of the 'ELITE' riders are quite the most ordinary and humble people.  Those of you passing though Weston Control on the way up WCW may have noticed a female 'elite' rider washing up you mugs and serving you stew (having ridden up ahead of you from Windsor).  She is just completing RAAM as i write. 

Full value riders however, like me, are quite a different proposition.   

[Whitedown Man]

1) Props Yukon Boy

2) In fairness to the OP, despite the perhaps badly-chosen thread title his beef was with elitism on YACF, not elitism on audaxes. We all (fast, slow & medium) seem to be in agreement that there's no elitism in evidence OTR

[LEE]

I see comments describing 100 km as measely ....... a bit off putting.

I hope I've never been guilty of describing 100km as "measly".  100km was my very first Audax distance. 
However I think that "true" Audax starts at 200km, based on points allocation (I may have interpreted this incorrectly).
I see the 200km = 2 points (100km = zero points) as a way to move Audax out of "Charity Ride" distances and into "Long Distance".

For everyone on an Audax, other than about 10 people in the country, there will always be someone quicker on the ride, someone tougher, someone who just seems to make your own efforts seem rather trivial.  That's irrelevant.

Audax is about you, competing with your own limits, not someone else's.

Some riders are so quick that riding a 600 isn't actually a challenge, it's just two longish day rides.  I can admire their fitness but there's no courage to admire.
To be honest I'm more impressed by riders who JUST manage to finish in time, who have battled against the clock all the way around, not slept, and gone way beyond their limits.
They may not be amazing athletes but they demonstrate something more valuable.

If 100km is your limit and you battle to ride 101km to the finish then chapeau to you.

Just do what you can, and then do a bit more, to surprise yourself. 
It can be a miserable experience at the time but Audax is a sport best enjoyed in retrospect.

[Ben T]

other than about 10 people in the country, there will always be someone quicker on the ride

Without wanting to pick argument, from a purely mathematical/logistical point of view, that's patently statistically factually incorrect I'm afraid, as that suggests the same 10 people are going around the country winning ALL the audaxes going. Even if there weren't more than 10 simultaneous audaxes on any given weekend, which there probably are, then it would still be an absolute logistical impossibility if not only for them to coordinate with each other.

[Charlie Boy]

other than about 10 people in the country, there will always be someone quicker on the ride

Without wanting to pick argument, from a purely mathematical/logistical point of view, that's patently statistically factually incorrect I'm afraid, as that suggests the same 10 people are going around the country winning ALL the audaxes going. Even if there weren't more than 10 simultaneous audaxes on any given weekend, which there probably are, then it would still be an absolute logistical impossibility if not only for them to coordinate with each other.

I don't think Lee was suggesting that all 10 always rode in the same events 

[L CC]

I don't find it necessary to have anyone's approval for my riding, as it's not very impressive. Nor do I think there's anything particularly worthy in spending a long time thoroughly miserable, struggling at something you're underprepared for.

Sorry if that comes across as elitist, but I don't think I'm much of an athlete- I'm pretty much fat & lazy, and unless I choose stupidly hilly rides, most audax are well within my limits- now that I've been at it for several years. I don't think riding quite a long way at a fairly moderate pace is that impressive. It's just not *that* hard. Build up steadily and put in the miles and there you are.
Anyone who is genuinely fast should be racing. Some cyclists ride audax and race, but generally, we don't hear gloating from the riders who are properly fast. What we hear is people bragging about how many rides they've done, and that's just a function of how much time they've put in it. I don't really find that terribly impressive either, to be honest. (And that's speaking as someone who does/has put quite a lot of time into it).

[mrcharly-YHT]

I've only done one Audax event.

It utterly destroyed me, and the forumites who were there and who helped me were incredibly patient and encouraging.

If there is an air of superiority in some yacf postings, it certainly isn't reflected in behaviour  (in deed and in word) at events.

[Veloman]

....... around the country winning ALL the audaxes going.

My bold

And while we are on the subject of elitism ......!

[Ben T]

other than about 10 people in the country, there will always be someone quicker on the ride

Without wanting to pick argument, from a purely mathematical/logistical point of view, that's patently statistically factually incorrect I'm afraid, as that suggests the same 10 people are going around the country winning ALL the audaxes going. Even if there weren't more than 10 simultaneous audaxes on any given weekend, which there probably are, then it would still be an absolute logistical impossibility if not only for them to coordinate with each other.

I don't think Lee was suggesting that all 10 always rode in the same events 

Yeah.... on the other hand if you simply want to come less than 10th in any one given event, simply enter an event with less than 10 entrants and all you have to do is finish and it's guaranteed....

[Ben T]

....... around the country winning ALL the audaxes going.

My bold

And while we are on the subject of elitism ......!

Sorry, the dreaded "w" word, I do beg your pardon I meant "came first".