Do I need to start feeding on rides?

[dantsw13]

My regular rides are now 70k with 700-1000m of climbing. About 50km in my legs start to go. Do I need to start thinking of gels/food mid ride?

[woollypigs]

Wow, I start nibbling at 15-20km or else I don't get past 35km let alone 50km.

[Peter]

I am trying to make sure I eat a banana or piece of pizza or something every hour.  It seems to be helping and usually I don''t need to stop to do it.

[dantsw13]

I guess my issue is I'm a MTBer who got a road bike to increase my fitness/lose weight. I don't want to undo all the hard work and eat as many Kcal as I'm burning. Today's ride was 72km around the western end of the South Downs, with 800m climbing. How often/much should I be looking at for a ride like this?

I rode my 1st 100km ride at altitude, in Colorado last week, and I want to build up to a 100 miler, maybe the Tonbridge Castle ride next year?

[woollypigs]

I'm not saying a three course meal at 15km, but like Peter say a bit of banana, bit of flabjack or some chocolate.

[Kim]

The alternative is to slow down a bit.  That might not be compatible with your fitness goals.

[dantsw13]

At the moment my moving average is about 24-25kmh, and I'm comfortable with that. I'm definitely going up hills faster, maintaining a higher gear, and getting out of the saddle more.

I ride with 3 mates, and it hold pace comfortably with them most of the time, but around the 50k point, I seem to start going backwards on the hills.

What is most common? Energy drinks, gels, or just a banana in my back pocket?

[Peter]

In my experience, if you are starting to "go backwards" you should have started eating sooner.  Everyone is different but little and often seems to work for most people I know.  I can "tough rides out" up to about 100k but I'm much more efficient if I start eating after an hour, and I certainly enjoy it more and finish in a better state.  I think the chances of you eating more calories than you burn is almost negligible.  On a hilly 200, my Garmin estimates I've used 6000 cals.  That's three times an active person's daily requirement.  You are going to get nowhere near that on a banana or something every hour.

Peter

[woollypigs]

Pretty much anything that you can keep down while moving and gives you energy. I know a few that don't get on with gels. It is trail and error. I would just say nibble little and often and before you start bonking. I like to start with porridge and a banana, though others think this is to heavy a meal to start a ride. If you like banana try with half at say 40km and the other half at about 60km, maybe throw in a half chocolate bar. And then have your normal recovery drink/meal when back home. It is not much but it will keep the motor ticking over.

[contango]

At the moment my moving average is about 24-25kmh, and I'm comfortable with that. I'm definitely going up hills faster, maintaining a higher gear, and getting out of the saddle more.

I ride with 3 mates, and it hold pace comfortably with them most of the time, but around the 50k point, I seem to start going backwards on the hills.

What is most common? Energy drinks, gels, or just a banana in my back pocket?

I usually keep a flapjack or cereal bar in my jersey pocket in case I need it. Make sure you drink enough water as well, that's generally my most frequent failing.

Over time you'll get a sense of what you can do. Personally I can go 70-80km at an moving average of 24-25kph without too much trouble but if I try and go much more than that I'll run into troubles, and because putting food into your mouth doesn't mean it's instantly available to your muscles it can leave me feeling like I'm struggling for a while until my body can use what I've taken on. But then I'm a heavy rider so probably got a good chunk more glycogen in my system than someone half my weight.

For long rides I'll often take a bag of jelly babies so I can top up the calories if I need them. Take a rough guesstimate of how many calories you're burning (and make sure it's accurate, some applications I've seen suggest truly outlandish figures - for me pushing fairly hard I'd reckon 30-40 calories per mile, less if I'm spending much time freewheeling) and use that as a guideline to make sure you're not taking on more calories than you're burning off.

[Andrew]

We're all different and there are a number of factors. Finding your own equation is part of the fun of it all. And you'll probably still get it wrong from time to time, I know I do!

Fwiw, my thoughts are these; if your only aim is weight loss than perhaps reduce your effort levels and try not to refuel on the bike, just eat as normal. I can ride 100km at around 20kph average on just water. I'd not go further than that without food though.  (It has been remarked on how little I eat on rides)

But as it seems you are looking to do a little more than just weight loss, and you are running out of sream, then I'd take something like a flapjack/cereal bar/sandwich to eat in bits. Ime, gels etc are an unnecessary expense when there are other options.

[Hot Flatus]

It depends on your conditioning, I think. A hardened audaxer can fly round a 200k on a sandwich, but that is after training the body.

It also depends on how hard you are going at it.

If you find yourself puffing a lot then you probably need to feed even on such a short trip. I'd suggest 150 cals if something unfatty every 30 minutes washed down with water.

[teethgrinder]

It depends on your conditioning, I think. A hardened audaxer can fly round a 200k on a sandwich, but that is after training the body.

It also depends on how hard you are going at it.

If you find yourself puffing a lot then you probably need to feed even on such a short trip. I'd suggest 150 cals if something unfatty every 30 minutes washed down with water.

I agree. I can do 200 miles without eating when I've been doing a lot of miles but now generally like to eat after 100km but can do 100 miles without eating.

Depends on effort too, speed is a little bit of a red herring.

Up to 65%MHR and you're running mostly on fat. 65-75%MHR and it's mostly fat but you'll also be using carbohydrates.
I've been looking at my HR on rides this year and I can only keep my HR at 65-75%MHR for up to around 13-15 hours. (Base training) It feels very easy at first but after 12 hours getting up to around 70% feels pretty tough.
Most of my riding on Audax events is for longer than 12 hours and is done at around 55%MHR, which I can keep up literally for days and nights. When I'm doing a lot of miles I am fit enough that I don't need to bring my HR up very high, which is why I can go for so long without eating. Unless it's a very hilly ride and I'm on fixed wheel, then I eat as often as every 50km, as I'd be taking my HR up to 75-85% (or even up to 95%) MHR and using more carbohydrates.
The fitter you are, the higher power output you can perform at a given HR. My HR was 75%MHR climbing Hardknott (very slowly) this year on a very hilly 600. This means that you can ride further (and faster) burning mostly fat which lasts for a very long time. Carbohydrates need to be replaced.
Also, you become conditioned to be able to store the maximum amount of carbohydrate after some conditioning.

Base training (65-75%MHR) is the bread an butter of pro riders. An elite rider will do around 20 hours a week. I've heard that Bradley Wiggins does about 40. Then there is the high intensity stuff to finish the job and get to peak fitness.
Eating gets difficult over 75%MHR, which is where gels come in, though they are handy for getting over the bonk.

I'm guessing that you spend a fair bit of time riding at around 75-85%MHR. HR goes up quite quickly when you climb even an easy hill!

[dantsw13]

Thanks everybody - lots to think on there.

[Bairdy]

Porridge and lots of honey before you set off will keep you going for a long while.
I then usually carry three or four 9 Bars and maybe 3 gels for an average Audax (total of about 1000 cals) but don't usually need to start raiding them until at least 100km and only eat what I need to.

Somebody wiser than myself recons they burn about 400 cals p/h on an Audax.
That's probably about right for me too.

In winter, I tend to eat a lot more and would probably sit down for beans on toast at 50km.

[T42]

I don't reckon energy gels are much use. A decent meal under your ribs lasts much longer. I usually eat pasta & bacon for breakfast if I'm doing 100k.  I have managed 100k, literally without putting a foot down, on that.  For 70-80k a banana/chocolate chip sandwich is good.

My nemesis, weight-wise, is the excellent patisserie that acts like a magnet at the 40k point of my usual circuit.