maintaining speed over longer distances, how ?

[Tewdric]

I rode straight through to Brest and stayed in a Pre booked formule 1 for 6 hours kip and a shower.  I also pre booked a hotel in Tinteniac for the next night.  It kept me ahead of the bulge the whole way round and I got 7 hours sleep in Tinteniac and made it to Dreux in time to get a bed and another 8 hours kip.  I didnt queue anywhere for anything.  I think this strategy relies on starting at the front and adopting Sheila's GLF to Brest then tour back doctrine, although this looks difficult to guarantee next year due to the LEL style allocated start times.  Go with the flow and don't let anything worry you is probably going to be the best plan, but I won't need it because I'm not riding this time.

[mcshroom]

How about a bit of encouragement to keep pedalling: -
http://youtu.be/eK0pO79YkvY

[Nelson Longflap]

Loudiac is about 450km, Carhaix is about 520km.

Food for thought ... in my limited experience I can usually ride 400 km in 20 - 21 hours overall and feel OK enough at the Arrivee to do a bit more (although feeling quite pleased to stop ). OTOH on BCM last year a 4 hour kip was really needed when I got to Kings YH on the way back. Riding PBP as 3 x 400km sounds for me like a recipe to fall by the wayside (asleep). 

Fast to Brest and steady back with Carhaix as a fallback position for a strategic sleep if needed sounds a good strategy. Thanks for the advice.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It very much depends on your start time, whether you are working with vedette, randonneur or ciclotouriste time limits, how fast you ride and how much you faff.

For me, PBP99 was (roughly) 500 (Carhaix), 400 (Fougeres), 300km (finish) between sleep stops, though the unknown bonus 30km rerouting just before a sleep stop made that day tougher. 90hr start and <70hr finish. It worked well but being so focussed drained some of the enjoyment. Finishing in daylight became a priority for future PBPs.

PBP03 was a 90hr start and a deliberately more relaxed approach. Slept at Carhaix, Tintiniac and Nogent le Roi finishing in low-80 hours. Great fun.

PBP07 and PBP11 were both 84hr starts and the time limits felt quite restricting until the last 150km or so, when they got very generous. Sleep stops were ad hoc locations (all but one in PBP stops), and always restricted by time limits. Weather and other factors meant I never covered the distances I expected to do each day. Sub-80hr finishes.

I'll be in the 90hr start next time and aiming for a <90hr finish.

[T42]

90 for me too.  And a hell of a lot less faffing.

2007 I slept at Loudeac in a pitch-black glacial gym. Think next time I'll curl up anywhere flat in the warm.

[Nelson Longflap]

Well as a PBP virgin I wasn't really thinking anything other than 90 hours. Enjoying it is also part of the aim. I think any strategy needs to accommodate random factors from mechanical issues to the weather and how good or bad one feels day by day ... so flexibility has to be an important ingredient in the strategic mix. Having some sort of loose plan for what to do manage sleeping in a variety of circumstances seems important ... which is where the experience of others helps so much. Thanks all.

[jamesld8]

Well as a PBP virgin I wasn't really thinking anything other than 90 hours. Enjoying it is also part of the aim. I think any strategy needs to accommodate random factors from mechanical issues to the weather and how good or bad one feels day by day ... so flexibility has to be an important ingredient in the strategic mix. Having some sort of loose plan for what to do manage sleeping in a variety of circumstances seems important ... which is where the experience of others helps so much. Thanks all.

+1    and I like Brittany anyway so hope to be able enjoy some scenery / food / ambience at some point !!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

If you are a regular caffeine drinker, I do highly recommend abstaining for about 3 weeks prior to any long ride.

For some of us, that advice would mean no coffee for half of the year. Some sacrifices are too great!

[T42]

Well as a PBP virgin I wasn't really thinking anything other than 90 hours. Enjoying it is also part of the aim. I think any strategy needs to accommodate random factors from mechanical issues to the weather and how good or bad one feels day by day ... so flexibility has to be an important ingredient in the strategic mix. Having some sort of loose plan for what to do manage sleeping in a variety of circumstances seems important ... which is where the experience of others helps so much. Thanks all.

+1    and I like Brittany anyway so hope to be able enjoy some scenery / food / ambience at some point !!

Some Breton atmosphere for you:

[jamesld8]

Well as a PBP virgin I wasn't really thinking anything other than 90 hours. Enjoying it is also part of the aim. I think any strategy needs to accommodate random factors from mechanical issues to the weather and how good or bad one feels day by day ... so flexibility has to be an important ingredient in the strategic mix. Having some sort of loose plan for what to do manage sleeping in a variety of circumstances seems important ... which is where the experience of others helps so much. Thanks all.

+1    and I like Brittany anyway so hope to be able enjoy some scenery / food / ambience at some point !!

Some Breton atmosphere for you:

thanks  --had that sort experience when doing day trip from Josselin to Mur de Bretagne, biblically wet, windy and endless draggy rolling Breton roads; that`s not quite the ambience I`m hoping for

[vorsprung]

Some Breton atmosphere for you:

2007 was like that some of the time

[T42]

Don't think it was ever that heavy in 2007 - sluiced down at the start, though. That pic's in Sizun on the 2006 UAF PBP.

On the day that we finished our 1100k in Brest this year 24mm of rain fell in something like 5 hours.

[thing1]

Loudiac is about 450km, Carhaix is about 520km.

thanks    ---for those with the experience of PBP are either these realistic first sleep stops? From my limited 400 / 600 experience I`ve found myself to be doing dozies @ the 370 + mark, but that`s from an 06:00 start. I do seem to need my sleep

We found Carhaix a great outbound sleep stop. I heard folks encourage "no sleep til brest" but we were glad to have grabbed 4hrs before the climb up le Roc. There were large groups falling all over the place, sleeping on damp verges, etc. We were definitely faster for having had the sleep there.

[zigzag]

while carhaix is a convenient distance for both outgoing and returning riders, the control does get busy for the very same reason. i've seen people sleeping on cold wet tiles near the entrance to the loos.. i had my power nap laying on three kitchen chairs (four would have been better, but were all taken!).

[jamesld8]

while carhaix is a convenient distance for both outgoing and returning riders, the control does get busy for the very same reason. i've seen people sleeping on cold wet tiles near the entrance to the loos.. i had my power nap laying on three kitchen chairs (four would have been better, but were all taken!).

thanks for all info from `old hands` 

Maybe I should carry a bivibag / thermarest and not worry about extra weight (possibly 2kg maxm) ? On my (one and only) BCM I had 2 hours excellent sleep in such --no queuing for a bed, no snoring issues etc--just laid out bivibag / thermarest on the lawn , put on a synthetic jkt--out like a light 

[mattc]

don't forget - there is a reason that lawn is so green ...

[jamesld8]

don't forget - there is a reason that lawn is so green ...

yes it`s wonderful nutritious that pure Welsh rain   

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Have been off thread for a while, but going back to the point around TTs and riding fast over a period.  What I discovered in 2007 was that before I did any TTs I would probably sustain 15 -16mph on the flat.  Riding 100 miles at 21mph got my sustainable flat speed up to 18mph.  I've not done any TTs for a couple of years and have found my flat speed dropping a little.

As for stopping, I recall that Carhaix got very busy last time as it was the obvious place to stop.  The start times in 2015 I think are similar to 2011.  So if the weather conditions are the same (reasonably ambient) then it will be busy.  Those who get their earlier will find the experience more pleasant. 

Personally I plan to be fit enough to make it to Brest at a reasonable time and have a beer and a dorm almost to myself like last time.      I've found that I'm slowest between 9pm and 3am so that's the period (after the first night) that I want to sleep.  It's probably worth guaging your own personal 'dead' spots, which could well be different from mine, based on your experience of 400s and 600s and using that to consider your sleep stops.  And, if on the event, you find yourself raring to go to the next stage, just do it.

[Nelson Longflap]

I found the strategy below at
http://www.audax-randonneure.de/index.php?id=299

Begin          : End              :  km :  h : km/h
Sun 19h00 : Mon 23h00 : 521: 28: 18.6
4 hours in Carhaix
Tue 03h00 : Tue 22h00 : 327: 19: 17.2
5 hours in Loudeac
Wed 03h00 : Wed 22h00 : 303: 19: 16.0
8 hours in Dreux
The 06h00 : Thu 11h00 :  74:  5: 14.8
Arrivee in Guyancourt after 88 hours

With the greatest respect to the authors I have to say it doesn't appeal to me, and shows the value of James' original point in this thread that riding faster brings more flexibility.

Specifically, I don't fancy riding 521 km then 327 km in 51 hours with only 4 hours off. I'd rather ride faster and sleep longer. A planned 2 hour margin at the finish seems too tight for my taste in case of problems en route.

Otoh it shows the ride can be completed at a very steady pace. Any more comments from the Panel?

[vorsprung]

my schedule in 2011 was

start at 7:30pm ish, second wave of 90h starters
ride through first night and then stop for a 15 minute kip at the side of the road in the sun at 3pm the following afternoon
arrive at Brest 3:30am, 2 hours sleep on the floor (I carry a sleeping bag liner)
Back to Tinteneac, arrive at 10:30.   Food with some wine.  5.5 hours sleep in a nice bed.  Off again at 6ish
I was intending to stop again before finishing but I teamed up with the Things and their tandem and somehow finished sometime after midnight

The 15 minute kip and then ride through to Brest outbound bit was "a plan".  The rest was improvised

[marcusjb]

As Helmuth von Moltke the Elder said "no plan survives contact with the enemy".

PBP is so different and so many options to go faster and slower present themselves - whether it's spotting an express train and hopping on for a couple of hours, or lounging about eating lunch with some mates you've bumped in to. 

It is worth working on being faster to open up even more options, but even 20 kph rolling is 30 hours off the bike.

[Nelson Longflap]

OK - thanks very much, and your points are well taken. It doesn't do to over-plan as it creates disappointment and wastes mental energy when the plan goes awry! However I'll still work on maintaining a good speed to keep open as many options as possible ...

[jamesld8]

OK - thanks very much, and your points are well taken. It doesn't do to over-plan as it creates disappointment and wastes mental energy when the plan goes awry! However I'll still work on maintaining a good speed to keep open as many options as possible ...

yes, I`ve garnered a lot of very useful tips and info from all responses too  Last thing I want is to be `pushing against the clock` so working on speed = leeway / safety net as I view it. So far this year my approx schedules have been generally achieved, a few slight getting behind but nothing serious; so getting to know what my expected average speed could be will help build a planned schedule / ride---bearing in mind of course plans change  / go wrong too

[Aunt Maud]

My strategy that has worked well for me on 600's and a couple of long 1000km + brevets I rode last season is;

Get a fast bike with fast tyres.

Take a tent, sleeping bag, mat, flip flops & stove and don't take much more luggage than that in a trunk bag not panniers.

Find campsites on map at about 340 km apart and have a back up campsite planned too.

Get on bike, find a fast group or partner with the same strategy, pedal like fudge and head for the campsite @340km aiming to be there at about midnight.

Have a hot shower (very important) and sleep for 5-6 hrs.

Repeat as needed till finished and socialise on the last day if you have good time or at the end when it's over. Make time at the beginning....cruise round at the end.

[T42]

As Helmuth von Moltke the Elder said "no plan survives contact with the enemy".

PBP is so different and so many options to go faster and slower present themselves - whether it's spotting an express train and hopping on for a couple of hours, or lounging about eating lunch with some mates you've bumped in to. 

It is worth working on being faster to open up even more options, but even 20 kph rolling is 30 hours off the bike.

^^^ wisest observation to date.  Apart from checking in and eating, main thing during those 30 hours is to get horizontal as much as possible.