Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => PBP => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 27 August, 2019, 12:22:10 pm

Title: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: quixoticgeek on 27 August, 2019, 12:22:10 pm

There were lots of photos from bike check/registration of the weird and the wonderful contraptions people were planning to complete PBP on.

This include at least 2 fat bikes.

Does anyone know how many of the weird and the wonderful made it in time?

J
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: JohnL on 27 August, 2019, 12:27:50 pm
Moderately weird, and certainly wonderful, all three upright trikes made it round...

I’m not sure if there is an easy way of identifying the ‘species’ of the special bikes for tracking etc.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Diesel on 27 August, 2019, 12:36:42 pm
Had to take a picture of this one at the start - complete with Brooks saddle!

Looks like he had a good crack but didn't get much further than Carhaix coming back.

Top effort! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190827/f91ebac19c3a912899e7fda5070967e9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190827/d7eab21e8e0260d39ed7a9aba0e4f6e7.jpg)
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: marlan on 27 August, 2019, 12:38:11 pm
This bike had the most appropriate name(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190827/6a577e7599e5e7918c85a4f00ef82e11.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: marcusjb on 27 August, 2019, 12:38:49 pm
May just be me, but there were some distinctly unspecial special bikes this time.

I know it's a fairly arbitrary classification, but folders?  Special?  Not really. 

There were some very regular looking DF bikes in the Fs as well - seriously, I could not work out what was different about them; regular wheels, bars, chain driven etc.

Doesn't really matter but seems a great shame to water down the category so much as it makes it less interesting to point and stare at.

One can question the need for the category at all if anything is going to be allowed in - it makes sense, to me, to have a special category for trikes/tandems/bents/velomobiles to give them a little room for the first few km without regular DF solos flitting about. 
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: markldn on 27 August, 2019, 12:39:07 pm
We saw some fat bikes at the finish line but the volunteers said none had completed, so they were just parked up having DNF'd.  Cracking effort though.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Kim on 27 August, 2019, 12:39:55 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the wacky racers did better than average.  There's a certain confidence required to deliberately make things difficult for yourself like that.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Kim on 27 August, 2019, 12:41:43 pm
There were some very regular looking DF bikes in the Fs as well - seriously, I could not work out what was different about them; regular wheels, bars, chain driven etc.

Possibly some attribute of the rider, rather than the bike?

I expect a few of them would be Plan B - silly bike broken, or rider not confident that they'd be able to do it on a single-speed reverse-pedal fatbike or whatever.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 27 August, 2019, 12:42:36 pm
Other than upright trikies, the velo speciale (particularly 90hr starters) traditionally have the highest DNF rate of any group. I suspect quite a few of the VS riders ‘have’ to ride a recumbent and tend to be older than average. Accordingly, they might be a bit more fragile/ have less margin when things get tough. Tandems obviously have twice as much chance of ride-stopping physical issues.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: grams on 27 August, 2019, 12:43:01 pm
Only two of the 7 Bromptons finished under the time limit. Both basically stock. 4 more finished out of time, and the last finished under time but skipped all of the checkpoints back, so probably train assisted.

The fat bike pictures floating around lack tracking numbers... one showing off on Facebook was M171, who packed at Loudeac on the tracking.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 27 August, 2019, 12:43:22 pm
I'd heard a couple of fat bikes were taking part, but hadn't realised at least one was actually a fat bike with drops. A rather rare species altogether.

Ed: Google finds more photos of fat droppies than I'd have expected, but all the adverts it throws up are not actually fat, just 'gravel', so I expect they're all homebrewed. And all the better for that. Also a thread dedicated to the subject: https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/any-fat-bikes-dirt-drop-bars-566333.html
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 27 August, 2019, 12:44:49 pm
It took me a few hours to realise that the concours bikes/ riders were in the VS group. That group mostly rode in custom jerseys, at least for the first day or two.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 27 August, 2019, 12:48:13 pm
There were some very regular looking DF bikes in the Fs as well - seriously, I could not work out what was different about them; regular wheels, bars, chain driven etc.

Possibly some attribute of the rider, rather than the bike?

I expect a few of them would be Plan B - silly bike broken, or rider not confident that they'd be able to do it on a single-speed reverse-pedal fatbike or whatever.

There was a 'Concours de Machines' in the check-in tent. Those bikes went off in the F group, to prove their mettle. That was a nice idea, but the display took up half the marquee on the Saturday, when people were queuing in the rain. There wasn't much appetite for hanging around once the riders had queued for the bike check, then queued to collect their documents.

The French were a little less stressed, as the 1,500 of them had the same size of barn to cater for them as the 5,000 etrangers, albeit that the support vehicle documents were handled on that side.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: zigzag on 27 August, 2019, 12:51:01 pm
I'd heard a couple of fat bikes were taking part, but hadn't realised at least one was actually a fat bike with drops. A rather rare species altogether.

Ed: Google finds more photos of fat droppies than I'd have expected, but all the adverts it throws up are not actually fat, just 'gravel', so I expect they're all homebrewed. And all the better for that. Also a thread dedicated to the subject: https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/any-fat-bikes-dirt-drop-bars-566333.html

not to dismiss the aerobars :D
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 27 August, 2019, 12:57:56 pm
I'd heard a couple of fat bikes were taking part, but hadn't realised at least one was actually a fat bike with drops. A rather rare species altogether.

Ed: Google finds more photos of fat droppies than I'd have expected, but all the adverts it throws up are not actually fat, just 'gravel', so I expect they're all homebrewed. And all the better for that. Also a thread dedicated to the subject: https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/any-fat-bikes-dirt-drop-bars-566333.html

not to dismiss the aerobars :D
As long as they don't extend beyond the brake levers!
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: marcusjb on 27 August, 2019, 01:25:40 pm
There were some very regular looking DF bikes in the Fs as well - seriously, I could not work out what was different about them; regular wheels, bars, chain driven etc.

Possibly some attribute of the rider, rather than the bike?

I expect a few of them would be Plan B - silly bike broken, or rider not confident that they'd be able to do it on a single-speed reverse-pedal fatbike or whatever.

There was a 'Concours de Machines' in the check-in tent. Those bikes went off in the F group, to prove their mettle.

That makes some sense - I did not even see the concourse bikes on Saturday.

But a pretty bike is not a special bike so I am really not sure boring old DF bikes belong in there.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: zigzag on 27 August, 2019, 01:33:53 pm
i went to see the concours bikes on friday - some had very interesting solutions! e.g. what to do with a redundant left sti gear lever on a 1x setup? use it for hi-low beam switching for your dynamo light which is mounted on a custom fulcrum/lever!
most bikes were built to be good looking rather than advanced in any technical way.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: grams on 27 August, 2019, 01:42:10 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the wacky racers did better than average.  There's a certain confidence required to deliberately make things difficult for yourself like that.

It can easily be misguided confidence based on getting round shorter easier rides on home territory.

Ultimately in most cases you’re just riding a bike that’s 10-20% slower than otherwise (for fat bikes, Bromptons, etc). Unless you’re a +20% rider there isn’t enough margin in PBP (especially with this year’s headwind) to allow for that.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 27 August, 2019, 01:56:59 pm
In previous years the press got a crib sheet with the wackiest bikes on them. That was absent this year so there's a bit of a scramble to construct stories with the benefit of hindsight. There was one home-constructed front-drive recumbent that we spotted at Longny. He spent a lot of time waiting for a pizza, which would have eaten up his time.

Obviously everyone covering the event starts from the same point. But in the absence of pointers from the organisation, experience and a keen eye counts. Drew Buck and Anco de Jong had their bikes checked in side by side, something that would mean very little to most people.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 27 August, 2019, 02:00:03 pm
Running against their tracking API

Seems to be 220 starters in F, which was the wacky racers start. As Marcus points out, a number of very ordinary bikes were in there.  Possibly DF riders trying to get spaces when all the other starts were full, or trying to sneak ahead of any 90hr "bulge".

Looking at what the API returns, I come up 78 wacky racer starts who have not recorded a finish time, so 35% DNF. Of course if one member of a tandem drops out then the other will drop out as well. Given the funny timings aerials placement at finish, we can't be certain some of these did finish but missed crossing the aerials bit.

Here are the URLs, split into five batches across the F starters.  The API seems to be limited to a max of 50 riders at a go, and you have to submit each url in it's own isolated browser window so it doesn't pick up the cookies from previous submissions. 

https://track.rtrt.me/e/PBP-2019#/tracker/RRFV7J6B,RDMB9EPL,RD5HYEU6,RNB2RDCJ,RMGRV23W,RR4GEBFN,RMGHZ5DX,RMEFN75T,RWG8F9RY,RBFWYPT6,R6K53JM7,RHGLJP3M,RBRLNJK3,RCUK9JVW,RJRK9BST,RLKMF93P,RHYK9ZJW,RREPD8GB,R34XW9GV,RRGLF4EX,RBX6DEGR,RHEV75CW,R5ZGTS84,RBD79AVW,R6N5RMH7,R5D7M2XY,R3C8ZN4R,RDXPZM72,R7285SLA,RW2G94YV,RCB59M8Y,RJ9A6RGW,RMUD29RX,R8TMB5NA,RVBKMHX9,R42KU8DV,RJ8G76V4,RYFRKGDL,R2M9GPHU,R3GNV75P,R67VB2UY,RRLE4Z7K,RPS723YV,RZ6G45X9,RVWP34L5,RH65UAC3,RUPANVDX,RJXFV4CE,RTYG85HK,R5VCMKJB

https://track.rtrt.me/e/PBP-2019#/tracker/R5VCMKJB,RM5N7RDJ,R7PKVBH8,RTN7GJYC,RKTCW6R7,RWTZXA8H,RZJ5BY23,RFTBWXYV,RKE8HSRX,REAGKJS3,RF8PUSYZ,RMEN32AC,R5FPKH2U,RT7UVAEK,R5DMF2XK,R96NM7DA,RZ7H9D8M,RMFGWU7A,R642G7NA,RNJHVLC3,RC3KJ7UP,RBEZ3KVU,RUMXNE86,RMVSNCEP,RYRA72TS,RN6L52CY,RP4WGV7R,RUFK7ZWB,RZ6H7FM4,RV5U7RKZ,RWFSZGV8,RXWV3CY6,RCFKXPVM,RHKY5GB4,RBVXFHN3,R4R6Z7YB,RYTHVGLD,RCM5EL3B,R4PHSCU7,R2DF6Z79,RZ4W6CT8,R7ZFUG5E,RZ8RXM46,RLKWUBPX,RGKS849L,RK6WBD49,RJ7VNPLG,RVA2X8LM,RPWDMNLJ

https://track.rtrt.me/e/PBP-2019#/tracker/R7YWBCVU,RTNRALC4,RFV43H8S,RFPTCJ3S,R2YVKBSU,RE5DGRMW,RZD2F9A7,RNREJA2M,RJWDHVBN,R7CAT3KF,R9TNFW8A,RL25KST7,R5JCA6L3,R6LEMDKG,RG3R5AWC,RFL5BY9H,R5HFMYU9,RGUBPXD9,RDM7VTN4,RDC4Z6NL,RDX6AL4T,RDWTYSCU,R4WXFB5Z,RUSVLT8G,RCJAM8NE,RTKPJL6B,RYGM8WRA,RPUN32MD,RC792WHA,RTB6P9ZX,R2CBFYMW,RM89NLP4,RFTAB2D3,R8XDP4UC,RE8MGXZF,RAJYRT83,RWVMBS3Y,RKWTHYBA,R4GWLFNA,RLD8TWKX,RKTV5X4B,RECGNKX4,RJCMXLVZ,R3CLYTJU,RBPSFZLD,RVN547X8,RTZBGY3E,R8D6MFEV

https://track.rtrt.me/e/PBP-2019#/tracker/RB2WU3NE,REDA5M29,R9AU46T5,RN7XJ4LS,R78WULYS,RY5J34EF,RYE6FKX8,RPA5SYE9,RUZG7MPW,RD28A53U,RGC5F38Z,RP7WFH2M,RFGLTV9W,RZPW7TG3,RTH9GRLE,R7V6UKL3,R235F6KN,RRV6GXTZ,RYKHE5WJ,RYR6EM52,RVDH6JBC,RN7E4GJL,R8PLCSNR,RDFEKSR9,RXTSP9RK,RX96M7KV,RKZBM974,R5S89KJL,R73JF9P8,RHG5AD3J,R9NCEJSD,RKUE5G4H,RHRF7V82,RKYAMPRE,RLG2RAZV,R6M3AJ8K,RSXYARJ2,RW39PFGS,R3G27P4A,R2E7LRUA,RC647L9B,R6DVTZS2,RZTFN72G,REZUPDGN,RVUDE9H8,RTL85XU6,RCUREZW2,R695Y23T,R72WPJ4N

https://track.rtrt.me/e/PBP-2019#/tracker/RP8CTDJL,RY8ND63K,RNH2P5GX,R5GR6NV4,RAC7N3G9,RBPTNRKF,RN7MRAC8,RDMNWU9T,RUNK7X5Z,RGJS4MC9,RMGHTDSV,RT3ZCWGS,RWEARFJ4,RLHVZTFA,RCWS2YLK,R3B2N6K8,RY49MKDP,R7PHXFZW,RLRZN8AE,RV4K3GBU,RVUSBW4H,RTRG2YWE,RCRHK5MD,RF8WMV6A

Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Edd on 27 August, 2019, 04:03:31 pm
There was a tridem at the bike check on Saturday (pleasing placed next to a tandem next to a single, 1-2-3). Just had a look at my photo but they hadn't attached a frame number at that point
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: saddlebag on 27 August, 2019, 04:18:27 pm
I rode with the Hase Pino tandem for several stints. I think they may have packed at mortagne?
Tremendous effort on a challenging beast.

If you’re on here, well done from me!

(K220  aka Gordon)
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 27 August, 2019, 04:27:27 pm
Yes, they mentioned to us a fair bit before Mortagne that lack of time to sleep would be the major factor in whether they finished.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: saddlebag on 27 August, 2019, 04:47:59 pm
I think they had had 10 mins sleep by the time they were at mortagne on the return.
Their hallucinations would be having hallucinations by then....
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 27 August, 2019, 04:51:34 pm
I think that's why they stopped, they decided they needed to sleep. Timewise they were ok at that point, before a sleep.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Neil C on 27 August, 2019, 05:10:47 pm
Triplet was three Germans. F073,4,5. Finished in 86:24
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 27 August, 2019, 05:16:29 pm
You can see a fair few on this link nicked from the cheating thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjwTdXo3-1w&feature=youtu.be

I took picture of quite a few of the wacky races at the start, but was really bad at getting the frame card in the shots. Would be good to match  bike make / model / design to times. 
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Kim on 27 August, 2019, 05:31:21 pm
i went to see the concours bikes on friday - some had very interesting solutions! e.g. what to do with a redundant left sti gear lever on a 1x setup? use it for hi-low beam switching for your dynamo light which is mounted on a custom fulcrum/lever!

I've seen that done (well, not with an STI) on velomobiles, where it's a royal pain in the arse to tweak the lighting angle to compensate for the suspension shifting when you add/remove luggage.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Hofnar on 27 August, 2019, 07:09:08 pm

The French were a little less stressed, as the 1,500 of them had the same size of barn to cater for them as the 5,000 etrangers, albeit that the support vehicle documents were handled on that side.

I am not French, but got to be in the waiting queu with them. There was barely anyone standing outside the international barn whilst french side at least 50 of us where eying the clouds very suspiciously around 5 pm.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 30 August, 2019, 06:27:25 pm
Specials start

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10220144459141681&id=1231999794
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: FifeingEejit on 30 August, 2019, 07:41:51 pm
Link to slightly better quality video if not on mobile
https://www.facebook.com/duncanpfm/videos/10220144449301435/?fref=nf

I spent some time there or thereabouts with both the German Triplet and the tandem with the recumbent front and normal rear.
While I didnt' get any photos of the later I got a couple of the Triplet shortly before I started wheel sucking them

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69694333_10162587834365647_6277930336236077056_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQmT_aWkAnM_72bbqB60hKdV9rSSG25eV3bBOnKdn_H1_PA2VrP2i-NPtypiFSthaJ9IiUw7TQo3vY3yx_utsbKP&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=ad6112b838029b34817109b86decd848&oe=5DD44037

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69055787_10162587834355647_7379252241187733504_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlH5lv6wN7lObnIN9_XWYepNdffmhrxWiRmo9JEtU2zqe4PFJ8LRvZWEidIQ6jPTLIXlssc_ISf5Si4EI3Aal_R&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=c5e3882f498fbc3593c64c2d83611051&oe=5E066087

Pusjotter album here:
https://www.facebook.com/niall.wallace.54/media_set?set=a.10162587822095647&type=3
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Ivo on 30 August, 2019, 09:01:02 pm

The French were a little less stressed, as the 1,500 of them had the same size of barn to cater for them as the 5,000 etrangers, albeit that the support vehicle documents were handled on that side.

I am not French, but got to be in the waiting queu with them. There was barely anyone standing outside the international barn whilst french side at least 50 of us where eying the clouds very suspiciously around 5 pm.

From one of the security guys I heard on thursday that in on saturday morning there was an enormous line outside for the international barn, while in the afternoon it was quiet for international riders and very busy for French (most of them leaving home on saturday morning and choosing an afternoon bike check time).
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Chrisheg on 01 September, 2019, 02:04:16 am
What was Drew Buck riding this time? I saw photos of him but could not see the bike very well.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: JohnL on 01 September, 2019, 06:31:16 am
What was Drew Buck riding this time? I saw photos of him but could not see the bike very well.
It was a modern bike, but a little unusual. It was the one he qualified on. Not sure of the model but it had swept back (north road?) handlebars, wooden mudguards, an enormous cassette. It looked pretty nice, just a bit different.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: JonB on 01 September, 2019, 07:44:15 am
What was Drew Buck riding this time? I saw photos of him but could not see the bike very well.
It was a modern bike, but a little unusual. It was the one he qualified on. Not sure of the model but it had swept back (north road?) handlebars, wooden mudguards, an enormous cassette. It looked pretty nice, just a bit different.
Think it's a Spa titanium frame, maybe the audax one. It's running a 1x set up with a MTB chainset and as noted above a very wide range cassette. Swept back bars, wooden mudguards with a jaguar on the front one.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: teethgrinder on 01 September, 2019, 02:51:44 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the wacky racers did better than average.  There's a certain confidence required to deliberately make things difficult for yourself like that.

It can easily be misguided confidence based on getting round shorter easier rides on home territory.

Ultimately in most cases you’re just riding a bike that’s 10-20% slower than otherwise (for fat bikes, Bromptons, etc). Unless you’re a +20% rider there isn’t enough margin in PBP (especially with this year’s headwind) to allow for that.

I'm not sure that's true for recumbents.
I suspect that some played the VS card to get an earlier start and still have the full 90 hours. All the earlier start times seemed to go first on pre registration.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 01 September, 2019, 02:58:46 pm
What was Drew Buck riding this time? I saw photos of him but could not see the bike very well.

Covering PBP was a bit odd. I suspect that St. Quentin's PR people used to drive the press information, and they'd hand out a list of people to look out for, and a breakdown of nationalities, youngest and oldest riders etc. Drew would be on that list, and that's what drove a lot of the interest. We didn't get any on that this time.

I asked his son Byron what sort of bike he might have when I saw him at the Mersey Roads 24. I saw Drew at the bike-check and after the document pick-up, and Heather saw him at the end. We didn't encounter him on the road.

The lack of media briefing is reflected in the coverage. About the only things that stood out were Fiona Kolbinger, and expectations of a good performance from Bjorn Lenhard. The last thing anyone expected was for the fastest vedettes to be displaced by a velomobile.

Here's what we have of Drew. He's wrong about the Jaguar, Cheetahs are faster.

https://youtu.be/RG427h8kQh8
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 01 September, 2019, 04:36:09 pm
I took quite a few pictures of the specials start but did not get the frame card in most of the shots. I was hoping to look at the bike type and timings. The rider obviously matters a lot as well.

Fastest non velomobile time I can spot is Jerome. He completed this time round on a Zockra low racer which is 622c rear and 451c (20") front. It weighs around 8.5kg built without mudguards etc. His time this year was 52 hours 41 mins. A bit slower than his time in 2011 which was 51 hours 27 mins. Some riders on M5 high racer normally pop up with some times in the 50 hours bracket but didn't capture the numbers of those riding them this time round. I did see a nocom and a home made equivalent but didn't note their numbers either. These latter ones, which make low racers look high, are not practical outside of events

I didn't spot many suspended recumbents this time round, less than half a dozen. Did spot some home made, or ones with home made fairings.

Smattering of times in the 50 hour, 60 hour, 70 hour ranges then quite a few over 80 hours with a number coming in on 86 hours. Plus some out of time but finished.

Edit there is a second recumbent rider Jerome from France, over an hour behind at Villainess but caught Belgian Jerome by the finish. So both 52 hours 41 mins. See from Ivo's photos a M5 rider finished in 64 hours 58 mins.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 01 September, 2019, 05:06:19 pm
Suspended 20" wheel low racer, under seat steering, heavy recumbent. Out of time by Brest
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 01 September, 2019, 05:18:55 pm
Schlitter Encore High Racer, 79 hours 56 mins

Non suspended mid racer, 24" wheels 85 hours 56 mins

Non suspended low racer, 559 (26" ) rear, 406 (20")  front , mudguards and twin panniers, 86 hours 18 mins

Triplet - 86 hours 24 mins
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: zigzag on 01 September, 2019, 09:05:02 pm
without knowing riders' fitness (e.g. w/kg) and their motivation to push for their best time, finishing times are pretty much meaningless.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 03 September, 2019, 01:39:01 pm
without knowing riders' fitness (e.g. w/kg) and their motivation to push for their best time, finishing times are pretty much meaningless.


This is true. Many PBPers are looking to finish in the most-comfortable way possible. That means they ride (and stop along the way) with an eye on the control closing times and finish with just a few hours to spare. The faster finishers take a different approach, usually.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: duncan on 03 September, 2019, 03:37:02 pm
I think they had had 10 mins sleep by the time they were at mortagne on the return.
Their hallucinations would be having hallucinations by then....

You're spot on there! We packed at Mortagne-au-Perche on the return, somewhat by accident. I'll try to describe all of it properly in a bit, but basically, I had lost the capacity to make any kind of decision. We're still kicking ourselves, TBH. So close, and we still had the legs. If we'd had the sense to just sleep 3 hours there I think we'd have done it in time.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: j4 on 03 September, 2019, 03:47:42 pm
If we'd had the sense to just sleep 3 hours there I think we'd have done it in time.

(Other half of the Pino, delurking...)

Even if we'd been hors delai that would have been better than abandoning, & I am extremely kicking myself too. But by that point I was making bad decisions for two, when I had long since lost the capacity to make bad decisions for one. It turns out that after 90+ hours without significant sleep, humans go weirdly broken.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 03 September, 2019, 04:04:00 pm
Too true. For many riders, PBP is an exercise in pedalling vs. faffing vs. sleep management. I think the last is at least as important as the other two.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: duncan on 03 September, 2019, 04:07:12 pm
If we'd had the sense to just sleep 3 hours there I think we'd have done it in time.

(Other half of the Pino, delurking...)

Even if we'd been hors delai that would have been better than abandoning, & I am extremely kicking myself too. But by that point I was making bad decisions for two, when I had long since lost the capacity to make bad decisions for one. It turns out that after 90+ hours without significant sleep, humans go weirdly broken.

If only I could have found a throat brush a bit faster in Mortagne, we could have got going again.
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: rob on 03 September, 2019, 04:10:51 pm
without knowing riders' fitness (e.g. w/kg) and their motivation to push for their best time, finishing times are pretty much meaningless.

This is true. Many PBPers are looking to finish in the most-comfortable way possible. That means they ride (and stop along the way) with an eye on the control closing times and finish with just a few hours to spare. The faster finishers take a different approach, usually.

There's some middle ground also.   I suspect I could do a much better time now but I chose to 1) ride briskly and 2) build in some sleep time and finish as fresh as I could after that distance.

It worked a treat but I felt a little deflated having not really experienced much of the atmosphere.   
Title: Re: Wacky races survival rates
Post by: Phil W on 03 September, 2019, 11:22:23 pm
If we'd had the sense to just sleep 3 hours there I think we'd have done it in time.

(Other half of the Pino, delurking...)

Even if we'd been hors delai that would have been better than abandoning, & I am extremely kicking myself too. But by that point I was making bad decisions for two, when I had long since lost the capacity to make bad decisions for one. It turns out that after 90+ hours without significant sleep, humans go weirdly broken.

I thought you were doing brilliantly and hoped the tracking was just broken at the end.  Wiser folks than me have said don't abandon before you have slept and / or eaten.  Easy enough to say when compos mentis and fresh, harder to remember when you are broken and / or delirious. Even harder when two of you aren't thinking straight, and full of fatigue.

There is only one thing for it, you'll have to try LEL in 21, then return for PBP in 23. I plan to join you in the wacky races categories in both of those, and hope I don't get a repeat of the equivalent of dysentery next time.