Training Wheels - Hand Built or Factory Built ?

[Rhys W]

Open Pros came out when pro cyclists still rode on quality clinchers and they built into a quality wheel just as light as something like Ksyriums but more reliable. Your average 20-something spoke factory wheel you see people riding around these days will be heavier, more expensive, and more fragile. Pros only use 32-spoke wheels now on special occasions like Paris-Roubaix, and Ambrosio rims tend to be favoured over Mavics for some reason. Open Pros last pretty well in drier conditions - my current ones are probably close to 10,000 miles.

I suspect the return to pros using tubs has a lot to do with being given deep section carbon rims to ride all the time - it's not that easy to make a carbon rim that holds a clincher bead, much easier to make it a concave surface for gluing.

[Rig of Jarkness]

Rang Big Al today.  He quoted me £25 per wheel including spokes 

He recommended Ambrosio Evolution or DRC ST17.

[Tewdric]

That's a very good price.  Both of those rims will be perfect for the job. 

[valkyrie]

I got new rims/spokes from Big Al for PBP. Pretty sure I paid £130 including the Open Pro CD (nice anodised gray finish) rims and DT Swiss spokes.  Very well build wheels they are too. I've had Ambrosio Evolution and DRC ST17 wheels from him in the past and while there's nothing wrong with them I prefer the Open Pros -  slightly lighter, a bit prettier (to me) and very easy to get tyres on to. Quite a lot of comments on here about them not lasting but I think I got about 10,000 miles out of the front rim. That being the Dynohub wheel for my long distance/winter bike it's seen a lot of rain/salt/general grime without any problems. Annoyingly the rear rim had hardly any wear but needed changed because the nipples had siezed into the rim so he couldn't true it up.

[Somnolent]

I got factory wheels (Fulcrum 7) on my Yukon - they only offered choices of handbuilts for Shimano, and I wanted Campag.   I knew from the start that I would handbuild my own wheels for Audax, and put a lot of thought into spoking numbers and patterns, rim & hub selection.... going in the end for durability over weight (Hope Pro 3 / Ambrosio Excellence 32 front / 36 rear)     
But I did think I would "save the factory wheels for those special summer rides"
Turns out handbuilts are a) a very few grams heavier b) noticeably stiffer c) just as fast    and I've never bothered putting the Fulcrums back on.

For a low cost "training" wheel, I'd certainly endorse the suggestion of putting Rigida Chrinas on the 105 hubs.  Must be a member local to you who can provide the "expert assistance" ?

just to put an opposite view, I think pppppPete isn't comparing like with like.  Ambrosios on Hope3s are 400 quid for a pair (?) and pretty much as good as it gets.  Fulcrum 7's are about 120 and bottom of their own range - there *should* be a massive difference between them

My fulcrum 3s (about 400 pounds) are much smoother, stiffer, feel much faster and lighter than my handbuilt chorus / open pro and have never needed truing / tighening / greasing / new bearings - unlike the handbuilts.  The 3s feel massively different to the fulcrum 7s which were briefly on a bike I acquired - no comparison at all.

On the basis of my experience, I prefer [good] factory built wheels.

Mike - I quite agree, definitely not comparing like with like.... (but glad you approve my choice of components )   
I shopped everything separately, 32h and 36h rims from different suppliers, front and rear hubs from different suppliers again, and spokes from a fifth... but managed to end up at around £300 total.
I'm sure the F3s would be faster - just not the wheels for me and the riding I do.

[Rig of Jarkness]

I now have my newly rebuilt wheels from Big Al, £92 for the pair, built with DRC ST17.  I still haven't had the pleasure of a trip over there, he saved me the trouble by giving the wheels to another Embra customer to pass on to me.  But he was quite insistent that I take them back after 200 miles for a tune, so I still have the shop visit to look forward to.