wheel building question - nipple ripped out by the spoke?

[Nonsteeler]

I left the wheel for a while alone and like to investigate now the thread size of my spokes. Re the thread size of a spoke, I basically use a calliper and check the 'nipple end' of the spoke, right? If it is closer to 1.8mm it this and if it is loser 2mm it is that?

Sorry, missed that question:

2x is fairly standard for 24 spokes.  Shimano don't like ther hubs being radially laced and it voids the warranty.  If the hub has ever been built any other way it wouldn't be wise.

Sure. Nonetheless this particular hub is suitable for radial lacing - at least Shimano says it will not void the guarantee. OTAH it was at least partially built non-radially...

Really?  All the current XTR hub service instructions in front of me here state radial lacing cannot be used.  Which model hub is it?

It is NOS and a XTR  HB-M960.

[Biggsy]

Yes.  Measure the unthreaded part of the spoke near the nipple.

[Nonsteeler]

I quick round-up of this thread. The wheel (as described in the initial post) is built and all is well although the mileage is for now still in the double digits.  Based on this thread (and a real life inspection by IanH) I came to believe that my project had two issues:

First, my spokes are a wee bit too short, maybe a 1-2mm. Not overly essential but it made the process more cumbersome.
Second, some spokes had a wrong nipple. I checked all the spokes and they all needed 2mm nipples.

My solution to both problems was to buy DT Swiss 16mm nipples, in 2mm and to replace all nipples. Worked like a treat. The wheel was finished in less than 1h. Thanks a lot for all your help!

One lefts-over is: How do you determine nipple size of the remaining 12mm nipples? Is there a quick&easy solution or is it guess and try with a calliper and/or different spokes?

[Ian H]

Not necessarily foolproof, but I recall that the two sizes of nipple were slightly different in shape. One had a rounder head. Also there was definite play with the larger one, when screwed a few turns on to a spoke.

[Nonsteeler]

Not necessarily foolproof, but I recall that the two sizes of nipple were slightly different in shape. One had a rounder head. Also there was definite play with the larger one, when screwed a few turns on to a spoke.

True, I faintly remember that some nipples look different. I will investigate once I am at home (and have the time).

[Biggsy]

One lefts-over is: How do you determine nipple size of the remaining 12mm nipples? Is there a quick&easy solution or is it guess and try with a calliper and/or different spokes?

I'd get a spoke and nipple that I know the size of and remind myself how they feel together, then compare with the unknown nipples on the same spoke.  Any excessive looseness or tightness will be immediately obvious (as long as the threads are clean).

Otherwise measure with callipers.

[rogerzilla]

Biggsy's already said how to measure it correctly but (out of interest) spoke threads are rolled for strength, which means that no material is cut away; the steel is just deformed plastically.  The external diameter of the threads ends up being greater than the unthreaded end of the spoke.