Author Topic: Broken Ti frame (Read 3374 times)

phil d · « **on:** 23 November, 2012, 11:14:38 am »

Well, it's happened. My VN Yukon frame has cracked. The crack is on the non-drive-side chainstay around the area that the stay is shaped to give tyre clearance. I was not the original owner of this bike so the lifetime warranty does not apply. When I bought it I was unaware of VN's "recertification" arrangement, whereby for the sum of €125 (£100) the warranty could be effectively be transferred.

So now I have a choice. VN will supply me with a replacement frame at a cost to me of approx £700 (a discount on their list price), or I could have it repaired by Enigma, who have indicated the cost (for replacing both chainstays) would be about £300.

What would you do?

zigzag · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 November, 2012, 11:26:14 am »

sorry to hear that, phil d. there are few options. if you want to keep riding vn yukon, i'd be accepting their offer of a new frame along with a lifetime warranty. i wouldn't ride the repaired one myself (but that's just me). two other options i see is to repair and sell hoping to get your money back you paid for repair. or sell as it is - you could be better off this way. either way you are out of pocket, just need to minimise your loss.

iddu · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 November, 2012, 04:25:57 pm »

Weld it. http://www.carrswelding.co.uk/cycling.html

[Edit. LH topside BB shell/seat tube on the beater. Almost indistinguishable from original bead, and stood up OK for 6 months so far]

alves · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 November, 2012, 06:01:48 pm »

sorry to hear as well, (partly as a fellow Ti cyclist! but I can understand how disappointing this is), I am also a dedicated recycler so my instinct would be to repair.
Then again, would you trust it? I think I'd repair and cross my fingers and I'd feel self righteous. Did you like/love the bike?

eck · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 November, 2012, 06:15:20 pm »

My 2003 Airborne ~~Zephyr~~ EDIT Zeppelin cracked at the weld this spring where the LH chainstay joins the BB. I got it welded, by Vernon Barker, in April since when it has done about 4000km. So far so good. IIRC it cost only about £35.

Tewdric · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 November, 2012, 06:29:25 pm »

Buy a steel frame.

Somnolent · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 November, 2012, 06:40:31 pm »

I think I'd go for Enigma replacing the chain stays, asking for them to be just a teensy weensy bit stiffer than the original. My 60cm Yukon does flex a bit in that area (evidenced by chain rub on FD cage when honking, but not when spinning in same gear)
That said I'm original owner so fortunately covers by VN's warranty.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 November, 2012, 07:29:56 pm »

Titanium has a poor record for breaking, based on posts here. Steel isn't much better. Never heard (in the last 20 years) of an aluminium frame breaking, or a carbon frame breaking that wasn't seriously pranged beforehand. It's all backwards according to received wisdom.

It's how it's made, not what it's made from; and fatigue limits are a bit of a red herring.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 November, 2012, 07:38:20 pm »

Quote from: Tewdric on 23 November, 2012, 06:29:25 pm

Buy a ~~steel~~ carbon frame.

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 November, 2012, 07:38:24 pm »

My Cannondale 2.8 broke off a dropout, as they tended to do back in the day. You can count that one!

Canardly · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 November, 2012, 07:44:44 pm »

The Ti fractures are appearing far too often which has put me right off. Will stick with Steel thinks and treat myself to a nice audax bike in due course.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 November, 2012, 09:11:03 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 23 November, 2012, 07:29:56 pm

Titanium has a poor record for breaking, based on posts here. Steel isn't much better. Never heard (in the last 20 years) of an aluminium frame breaking

Quite a few people on here have had an aluminium frame break, including me

Canardly · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 November, 2012, 09:17:24 pm »

I was dead set on getting a VN touring frame but not now.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 November, 2012, 10:33:06 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 23 November, 2012, 07:29:56 pm

Titanium has a poor record for breaking, based on posts here. Steel isn't much better. Never heard (in the last 20 years) of an aluminium frame breaking, or a carbon frame breaking that wasn't seriously pranged beforehand. It's all backwards according to received wisdom.

Cannondale didn't earn the moniker Crack'nFail for no reason.

CountrySickness · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 November, 2012, 07:52:57 am »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 23 November, 2012, 07:29:56 pm

Titanium has a poor record for breaking, based on posts here. Steel isn't much better. Never heard (in the last 20 years) of an aluminium frame breaking, or a carbon frame breaking that wasn't seriously pranged beforehand. It's all backwards according to received wisdom.

It's how it's made, not what it's made from; and fatigue limits are a bit of a red herring.

Just in the 20 years - my Giant carbon MTB, never crashed, broke circa 1995.

2 MTBs later my lovely Gios Titanium MTB developed 2 v small chainstay cracks near the main flex point

, i've still got the frame and http://www.carrswelding.co.uk/cycling.html will be getting an email v soon.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 November, 2012, 09:51:51 am »

Quote from: CountrySickness on 24 November, 2012, 07:52:57 am

Just in the 20 years - my Giant carbon MTB, never crashed, broke circa 1995.

I had no idea Giant were making carbon MTB frames in or before 1995.

In fact, I'm amazed. Carbon didn't even hit the mass road market until the very end of the 90's with the Trek OCLV.

Which frame was it?

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:07:30 am »

You need to readjust your memory to be closer to the truth. I was selling Look, Giant and Trek carbon bikes in the early and mid-1990s. The OCLV was introduced much earlier than the very end of the 1990s.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:25:21 am »

You need to improve your literacy skills in order to understand the not-so-subtle nuances of the written form. Note the word "mass". Carbon most definitely was a niche product until the end of the 90's when the Lance factor took effect. Note also, that the post is about MTBs. I've no idea when the first Carbon MTBs were on sale. I didn't think it was until the 2000s so I'm interested to know what CountrySick managed to get his hands on in or before 1995. Was it a prototype or a retail model?

Efrogwr · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:33:36 am »

There were carbon MTBs in the 90s; Kestrel and Trimble (both very expensive) and Mike Burrows was building one-offs a long time before he started working for Giant.

CountrySickness · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:34:06 am »

Quote from: Spirit of Flatus on 24 November, 2012, 10:25:21 am

You need to improve your literacy skills in order to understand the not-so-subtle nuances of the written form. Note the word "mass". Carbon most definitely was a niche product until the end of the 90's when the Lance factor took effect. Note also, that the post is about MTBs. I've no idea when the first Carbon MTBs were on sale. I didn't think it was until the 2000s so I'm interested to know what CountrySick managed to get his hands on in or before 1995.

Handbags gentlemen!

I can't recall the exact model but it was "Giant Cadex"-branded, purchased circa 1992 and one of those carbon tubes (including stays wrapped in an odd kevlar mesh) bonded into alloy lugs jobbies, v comfy for a non-suspended bike too until it's demise and not that expensive (purchased with insurance from a stolen Raleigh Dyna-tech). I had a chum at university who had an even older Giant carbon road bike (didn't Marie Purvis have one?).

I also remember "Kestrel" (?) carbon MTBs from the late 1980s (well pictures of them in MBUK). EDIT as Efrogwr has also just said.

CountrySickness · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:39:10 am »

Anything to avoid going shopping, it was this one:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64131

Nearly as ugly as modern full-suspension MTBs eh?

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:40:03 am »

Giant has always been a mass-market bike maker and was selling carbon frames in the early 1990s. I'll leave it there.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:43:23 am »

Quote from: CountrySickness on 24 November, 2012, 10:34:06 am

Handbags gentlemen!

Don't be alarmed. it's tongue in cheek handbags

Quote

Ican't recall the exact model but it was "Giant Cadex"-branded, purchased circa 1992 and one of those carbon tubes (including stays wrapped in an odd kevlar mesh) bonded into alloy lugs jobbies, v comfy for a non-suspended bike too until it's demise. I had a chum at university who had an even older Giant carbon road bike (didn't Marie Purvis have one?).

I also remember "Kestrel" (?) carbon MTBs from the late 1980s (well pictures of them in MBUK).

That must have cost an absolute packet! I wasnt aware of such an early adoption into the MTB world, but then I've never read an MTB mag in my life. Ironically, I own a Giant Carbon MTB myself, and when I went looking for one in about 2005 all I could find were Trek and Giant. They are two a penny now

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:49:04 am »

Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig on 24 November, 2012, 10:40:03 am

Giant has always been a mass-market bike maker and was selling carbon frames in the early 1990s. I'll leave it there.

Guess it depends on what you define as mass-market. Peugeot were a mass-market producer, but it would be stretching it to suggest that their 1980's cf frames were mass market.

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 November, 2012, 10:53:50 am »

We were selling Giant CF bikes alongside aluminium and (less commonly) steel bikes of similar prices. They were all a small step up from our bread and butter bikes but we were selling them every week. That counts as mass-market to me. They weren't bikes we were selling once a month.