Author Topic: Struggling with hills  (Read 8684 times)

Chris S

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #25 on: 01 August, 2008, 03:08:49 pm »
Wasn't there a rather excellent and geek-rich thread in our other place about whether it's better to learn to twiddle slowly up a hill and then ride hard on the descent, or attack the uphill part and sleep relax on the descent?

Nutty - there is no way on earth I can eat or drink riding up hill - I'll choke for sure. Are you really able to eat whilst climbing?

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #26 on: 01 August, 2008, 03:18:55 pm »
Wasn't there a rather excellent and geek-rich thread in our other place about whether it's better to learn to twiddle slowly up a hill and then ride hard on the descent, or attack the uphill part and sleep relax on the descent?
Indeed there was (geek indeed ...) - everyone disagreed with me*!

But the one thing we agreed on was that  you should climb with AT LEAST AS MUCH effort as your flat effort.

*(I'm still certain that a bit more effort uphill than downhill is most efficient.)

Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Wascally Weasel

  • Slayer of Dragons and killer of threads.
Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #27 on: 01 August, 2008, 03:21:02 pm »
I'm currently far too heavy a cyclist (back up to 15 stone) but I make it up most hills and hilly sportives, mostly I think because I do a lot of hill training (including White Down mentioned earlier).

I'm hoping that when I manage to get down to 12.5 stone that I'll fly up the hills

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #28 on: 01 August, 2008, 03:35:55 pm »
...
Nutty - there is no way on earth I can eat or drink riding up hill - I'll choke for sure. Are you really able to eat whilst climbing?

<slightly O/T for this board, but I'll answer anyway.>

Yes, I can eat and drink quite happily whilst climbing.

I have found, for me (so YMMV) that whilst I can blast the downhills and maintain a good speed on the flat, the effort uphill just doesn't provide the returns.

On Wednesday I blasted the first 2 miles home, flat, and had an AV speed reading of 20mph.  I wasn't tired or out of breath.  I then turned uphill for the first of the minor ascents, and for the same effort the bike slowed to 15 or 16 mph.  Dropping the effort right down I cruised quite happily at 13 to 15mph.

This is typical for me, hence me not seeing the benefit of really putting the hammer down, sweating out all my liquid and getting both dehydrated and into oxygen debt just to travel an extra 2 miles per hour.

Instead I prefer to drop the effort down slightly, keep flowing, and therefore cover the longer distance in the same average speed as I don't have to stop/slow to recover from the uphill sections.

On a really long/steep uphill, such as Ditchling Beacon on the FNRTTC I purposefully go into a low gear right at the start and then ride at a pace that I can maintain without getting breathless until I get to the top.  On some rides I've trundled past the faster boys near the top of the climb whilst they are gasping for air and I'm still as fresh as a daisy.   Think Tortoise and Hare.   Plus, as I said, because I'm not gasping for air I'm quite happy getting a maltloaf out of the pannier (yes I can do that whilst riding too) and eating it; thus saving the necessity to stop and refuel.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #29 on: 01 August, 2008, 04:48:11 pm »
Wasn't there a rather excellent and geek-rich thread in our other place about whether it's better to learn to twiddle slowly up a hill and then ride hard on the descent, or attack the uphill part and sleep relax on the descent?
Indeed there was (geek indeed ...) - everyone disagreed with me*!

But the one thing we agreed on was that  you should climb with AT LEAST AS MUCH effort as your flat effort.

*(I'm still certain that a bit more effort uphill than downhill is most efficient.)



And I agree with you.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #30 on: 04 August, 2008, 02:46:15 pm »
Wasn't there a rather excellent and geek-rich thread in our other place about whether it's better to learn to twiddle slowly up a hill and then ride hard on the descent, or attack the uphill part and sleep relax on the descent?
Indeed there was (geek indeed ...) - everyone disagreed with me*!

But the one thing we agreed on was that  you should climb with AT LEAST AS MUCH effort as your flat effort.

*(I'm still certain that a bit more effort uphill than downhill is most efficient.)



I tend to apply a bit more effort going up hill too. In fact I work more on the notion of pace; i.e. I try to maintain my pace up a (short) hill, a lot of my riding, and to draw on my existing momentum. On a longer hill this does not apply though.
Frenchie - Train à Grande Vitesse

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #31 on: 04 August, 2008, 02:51:48 pm »
Wasn't there a rather excellent and geek-rich thread in our other place about whether it's better to learn to twiddle slowly up a hill and then ride hard on the descent, or attack the uphill part and sleep relax on the descent?
Indeed there was (geek indeed ...) - everyone disagreed with me*!

But the one thing we agreed on was that  you should climb with AT LEAST AS MUCH effort as your flat effort.

*(I'm still certain that a bit more effort uphill than downhill is most efficient.)

Indeed. The faster you go the more energy is used to overcome air resistance, so it makes sense to put in any extra effort when you're going slowest.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #32 on: 04 August, 2008, 02:54:39 pm »
Yes indeed. Someone bothered to put all the options through an online calculator. It turns out that going hard on the uphills, medium pace on the flat, and resting downhill is fairly efficient.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #33 on: 04 August, 2008, 02:56:43 pm »
Wasn't there a rather excellent and geek-rich thread in our other place about whether it's better to learn to twiddle slowly up a hill and then ride hard on the descent, or attack the uphill part and sleep relax on the descent?
Indeed there was (geek indeed ...) - everyone disagreed with me*!

But the one thing we agreed on was that  you should climb with AT LEAST AS MUCH effort as your flat effort.

*(I'm still certain that a bit more effort uphill than downhill is most efficient.)

Indeed. The faster you go the more energy is used to overcome air resistance, so it makes sense to put in any extra effort when you're going slowest.

right but the wrong reason. Any effort spend speeding up the slowest meters will save far more time than the same effort speeding up the fast meters.

Effort getting rid of the slow bits which are the big time sinks. That is where it is at.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #34 on: 04 August, 2008, 03:07:21 pm »
right but the wrong reason. Any effort spend speeding up the slowest meters will save far more time than the same effort speeding up the fast meters.

Effort getting rid of the slow bits which are the big time sinks. That is where it is at.

We're kind of saying the same thing. A sustained increase in *power* is best used for the longest period, i.e. when going slow. 50W extra when climbing a 1km 10% climb will save you more time than 50W extra when descending.

But a finite increase in total work (i.e. power * time ) is best put towards going the slowest as it is the least inefficient time.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #35 on: 05 August, 2008, 10:51:36 am »
I'm going to send Nutty some Physics books to read on his next long climb.  ;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #36 on: 05 August, 2008, 11:00:59 am »
I'm going to send Nutty some Physics books to read on his next long climb.  ;D

"Physique pour les nuls" ?
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #37 on: 05 August, 2008, 11:31:03 am »
I'm going to send Nutty some Physics books to read on his next long climb.  ;D

Make sure it's a long one  ;D ;D ;D

border-rider

Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #38 on: 05 August, 2008, 11:40:04 am »
I can kind of see where Nutty's coming from...

When I was on my last mega-distance training programme in 2006 I rode a few 200s on fixed, trying to keep the HR at 140 or so.  That involved crawling up hills, but overall the ride was less tiring and whilst it might have been 30 mins slower (in about 8 hours) I felt a lot fresher at the end and I did it without having to eat anything.

 If you're working on "further" rather than "faster" - when I agree it's better to put the effort in on the slow bits - then easy hills is not a bad way forward.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Struggling with hills
« Reply #39 on: 05 August, 2008, 12:07:14 pm »
Just looked at the other thread and found, by devious means, this: clicky

That took me three hours1 with naught but a water bottle, camera and fags for luggage, which made me rather glad that I decided against Plan A - riding it with a full touring load ::-)

1 - and forty-five minutes to get down again.
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