New Forest excursion 2017 and The strange loss of the full value rider

[LesH]

What a cracker of a ride was my quick response to the New Forest Excursion yesterday.  A cool start but quickly warmed up and ended with lovely afternoon and evening sunlight casting the unique lat spring New Forest mileau in a particularly lovely glow.  This was supported with excellent organisation and the best route sheets I have come across in a while.  Many thanks to all involved.

No to the little mystery.  I was lantern rouge which my surprise only those who do not know me and I am always perversely proud to achieve this particular accolade.  However I came in at roughly 2 hours ahead of the cut off time with all riders on all the rides either returned or otherwise accounted for.   There used to be a time when there would be a group of use laggards, indeed I can remember having to compete quite earnestly to gain the lanterne rouge badge.  Are we a dying breed of increasingly aged relics from a bygone era, or was this just a fluke event? 

Les

[Redlight]

No, I'm still here. We just haven't been on the same rides 

On a more serious note, I have noticed in the last year or two that we're attracting a younger and more diverse (at least gender-wise) group of riders,  many of whom are riding lightweight bikes with minimal kit and who tend to be pretty darn fast.

We can debate the reasons for weeks (and probably will now that I've suggested it) but I know from brief conversations I've had on the road - before they leave me in their dust trail - that some are coming from the sportive world, either tired of paying excessive sums for a route nicked from an AUK organiser and a couple of energy gels at the start or put off by the behaviour of some of the other riders.

Whatever the reasons, it's got to be a positive sign so long as AUK generally hangs on to its 'not a race' culture, which I'm sure it will.

Another factor may be the rise of the GPS unit. A little bit of tech on the handlebars looks a lot cooler than a Heath Robinson contraption holding a paper route sheet and goes far better with all the Rapha kit 

[T42]

Chums of mine managed it on a 400 in 2011. At about 40k from the end they had four hours in hand so they stopped for lunch (this is France, remember) and had a kip after. They made it just under the chopper.

[Redlight]

I did that with about 150km to go on PBP in 2011. A very nice three course meal with a carafe of red, all for about 15 Euros, if I recall. Got to the finish with just under 20 minutes left.

[Salvatore]

I noticed the same as the OP on the Kennet Valley 200 earlier this year. I was quite a bit faster than normal, but there weren't that many people behind me (and they weren't far behind me), and the organiser could shut up shop earlier. We debated the possible reasons for this, but came to no serious conclusion (other than the absence of one particular rider).

[frankly frankie]

Chums of mine managed it on a 400 in 2011. At about 40k from the end they had four hours in hand so they stopped for lunch (this is France, remember) and had a kip after. They made it just under the chopper.

Speaking as a sometime finish controller, I find such behaviour quite inconsiderate.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think it's pretty much as Redlight says. The full value riders are still around but are fewer as a proportion of the total. I reckon there are two main reasons for this:
–New riders entering who are used to the faster, sportier and more competitive pace of sportives and road clubs.
–Riders who've been around a while are becoming faster, if not in speed at least in attitude. That is, they are riding "road" bikes rather than "tourers", bouncing controls, etc.

At the same time, there's a subset of the last group who are riding faster but still finishing at "full value". Riding faster but stopping longer at controls, in pubs, etc.

[mattc]

Chums of mine managed it on a 400 in 2011. At about 40k from the end they had four hours in hand so they stopped for lunch (this is France, remember) and had a kip after. They made it just under the chopper.

Speaking as a sometime finish controller, I find such behaviour quite inconsiderate.

... and I'd back you. (actually I've been delayed longer by DNF riders who couldn't be arsed to notify us, despite having to return to their car at Arrivée. Much appreciated at 2am chaps    )

I find the "last home" contest rings a bit hollow sometimes; where the riders concerned are clearly capable of finishing many hours earlier, it devalues the efforts of the real strugglers. /soapbox

[Redlight]

Speaking as a sometime finish controller, I find such behaviour quite inconsiderate.

... and I'd back you. (actually I've been delayed longer by DNF riders who couldn't be arsed to notify us,

Agreed. Helping out on one event a few years ago I actually went out in the car looking for a "lost" rider once we reached the cut-off time. Turned out he had packed and gone home 

[LEE]

I did that with about 150km to go on PBP in 2011. A very nice three course meal with a carafe of red, all for about 15 Euros, if I recall. Got to the finish with just under 20 minutes left.

You could probably just about see me ahead of you if the road was straight enough.  My mantra all the way from the final control at Dreux, was "Don't puncture..don't puncture...."

[tonyh]

I think it's pretty much as Redlight says. The full value riders are still around but are fewer as a proportion of the total. I reckon there are two main reasons for this:
–New riders entering who are used to the faster, sportier and more competitive pace of sportives and road clubs.
–Riders who've been around a while are becoming faster, if not in speed at least in attitude. That is, they are riding "road" bikes rather than "tourers", bouncing controls, etc.

At the same time, there's a subset of the last group who are riding faster but still finishing at "full value". Riding faster but stopping longer at controls, in pubs, etc.

Fully agreed about the thoughtless Badness of keeping Controllers hanging around unnecessarily!

There's another effect which seems a pity, with no-one at fault, and no obvious "solution" apparent:
10 years ago, at a youthful 65 years, I wasn't quick (in spite of trying hard to be!) but there were usually other riders around in the later stages of events. Now at a youthful(??) 75 years, there does seem to be (as the OP is suggesting) a decreasing number of us "laggards", and not only because I'm a bit slower still; this makes me less enthusiastic about entering Calendar events, because watching the entire field quickly disappear up the road, before doing the whole thing solo, isn't necessarily fun; and the fewer entries from slower riders, the more usual this gets. This in spite of the way Controllers give wonderful support to riders near the time-limit, and are glad to do so.

[IanN]

I wonder if the take up of DIY by GPS has added to this. I am pretty full value and consider getting in second to last a 'win'  (even if the lanterne rouge is 30 years older than me  ).  Being quite slow I have very rarely ridden a calendar event in a group.

So if I'm going to spend 12 hours on my tod, why not ride a DIY?

This is not helped by the fact that real life almost invariable gets in the way of calendar events.
Without the marvellous tonyh, 3peaker and Martin the ECE man I'd have no points this season at all.

[Banjo]

With several lantern rouge trophies all genuine hard earned ones this is about the only audax topic I can speak on with some authority.

  I still like to do calendar events as there are often other audaxers still at cafes etc when I arrive but usually all gone by the time my food arrives but at least I get some opportunity to socialize a bit.

I don't think organizers can complain about genuine full value riders ,I usually get a friendly "well done" and none have ever made me feel as if I was a nuisance when getting to arrivee with only minutes to spare. 

[Graeme]

Fast riders do have a lot of fun too, but sometimes skew the expectations of others. The maximum time limit gives everyone a solid chance of finishing and enjoying themselves. On Saturday's 100km ride, the two slowest riders were a Grandad/Grandson combo 70 &13 years respectively. At the halfway point they were an hour behind the next slowest rider. They did leave the 63km control with 5 mins in hand, but then had a tailwind and finished with an hour in hand. Sure, they were an hour behind the previous rider, but they were well within time - and they enjoyed themselves immensely. Thankfully I had a team of people to greet them and as the last finishers they actually got all my attention - and plenty of cake. I'm glad they didn't lose heart and give up.

[Whitedown Man]

I wonder if the take up of DIY by GPS has added to this.

+1
I'm normally towards the back end of the field - in the last 10% or so. My typical calendar ride experience is a solo ride after maybe the first 20km, catching the last of the medium-speed riders leaving controls just as I arrive. So, if I'll be riding solo anyway, why not do a DIY which starts and finishes at my front door, and for which I can choose my own start time.

I do find though that the balance tilts the other way on a 600, where even the glimpse of tail lights in the distance as I arrive at a control is heartening, and the field gets reset at the start of Day 2 as the faster riders tend to sleep until the same sort of time as the slower riders.

So for me, my 200s and 300s tend mostly to be DIYs, but my 600s are almost all calendar rides.

[Philip Whiteman]

Speaking as a sometime finish controller, I find such behaviour quite inconsiderate.

... and I'd back you. (actually I've been delayed longer by DNF riders who couldn't be arsed to notify us,

Agreed. Helping out on one event a few years ago I actually went out in the car looking for a "lost" rider once we reached the cut-off time. Turned out he had packed and gone home 

I have no objections to full value riders pushing it to the time limit, although it is nice to close the control early and return home for some sleep.   Equally, it is always pleasing to for riders returning 'just in time' having pushed themselves to the limit in order to achieve a valid ride.

As for DNF rider's not declaring a late return - I have no sympathy and will never drive the route seeking them out.  There are too many controller's sob stories of inconsiderate riders.  The controller's number is clearly printed in the brevet card, so if errant riders do not have the courtesy to notify the organiser on their whereabouts, then hard cheddar!  My controls open and close at the advertised times.

[mr ben]

this makes me less enthusiastic about entering Calendar events, because watching the entire field quickly disappear up the road, before doing the whole thing solo, isn't necessarily fun; and the fewer entries from slower riders, the more usual this gets. This in spite of the way Controllers give wonderful support to riders near the time-limit, and are glad to do so.

Being someone with diminished social (not to mention group riding) skills I generally don't mind most folk disappearing up the road ahead of me.  But I never feel like I'm riding 'by myself'.  If that was the case I'd probably just stay in bed.

I'd like to think that I'm doing my bit in continuing to represent slower riders ...I've always found controllers to be extra-wonderful when I'm among the final few finishers - particularly attentive with the force-feeding at the arrivee!  On a recent 200 km my parents showed up to meet me as I was lantern rougue-1 and they were also fed tea and cake.

As several orgs have said it's a lot more stressful than riding the bloody thing, they really are keeping track of us all as we go through the controls, so not notifying if you've decided to pack is very inconsiderate.

[Cudzoziemiec]

this makes me less enthusiastic about entering Calendar events, because watching the entire field quickly disappear up the road, before doing the whole thing solo, isn't necessarily fun; and the fewer entries from slower riders, the more usual this gets. This in spite of the way Controllers give wonderful support to riders near the time-limit, and are glad to do so.

Being someone with diminished social (not to mention group riding) skills I generally don't mind most folk disappearing up the road ahead of me.  But I never feel like I'm riding 'by myself'.  If that was the case I'd probably just stay in bed.

I'd like to think that I'm doing my bit in continuing to represent slower riders ...I've always found controllers to be extra-wonderful when I'm among the final few finishers - particularly attentive with the force-feeding at the arrivee!  On a recent 200 km my parents showed up to meet me as I was lantern rougue-1 and they were also fed tea and cake.

As several orgs have said it's a lot more stressful than riding the bloody thing, they really are keeping track of us all as we go through the controls, so not notifying if you've decided to pack is very inconsiderate.

There are plenty of rogues among the faster riders too. 

[Malmesbury Monk]

Aside from the general discussion about the disappearing full value rider, I think it's worth pointing out that the New Forest Excursion is a very fast course. I normally aim to finish a 200km in under 12 hours. Rides with AAA points always take me over the 12 hour mark. Checking through my brevet cards, I see that in 2015 I finished the New Forest Excursion in exactly 10 hours. This is easily my fastest time. The ride included four controls
where I would have stopped and bought something and four information controls. This might go some way towards explaining why you were able to finish with 2 hours in hand and still be the last rider.

[tonyh]

I generally don't mind most folk disappearing up the road ahead of me.  But I never feel like I'm riding 'by myself'.  If that was the case I'd probably just stay in bed.

I'd like to think that I'm doing my bit in continuing to represent slower riders ...I've always found controllers to be extra-wonderful when I'm among the final few finishers...

As several orgs have said it's a lot more stressful than riding the bloody thing, they really are keeping track of us all as we go through the controls, so not notifying if you've decided to pack is very inconsiderate.

Very much with you on all those!

[Bobbinogs]

As someone who usually gets his money's worth eating at the end rather than en route, I think the advent of GPS has indeed opened the appeal of audaxes greatly and this (due to the law of averages) has meant that more riders has brought more faster riders.  Whilst I personally still use only routecards (I kinda enjoy the challenge and feel more engaged with the event), it is very noticeable that these are now a rarity on the front of rides.  The good news is that whilst more riders seem to be turning out (and many are, as noted, competent club riders) thankfully I haven't noticed any downward spiral to Sportive behaviour and it is great to see that most will still partake in the audax spirit and stop for info controls, etc., rather than just buzzing around (although there is nothing wrong with buzzing around from time to time  ).  Long may it all continue!

[mr ben]

...I was lantern rougue-1...

There are plenty of rogues among the faster riders too. 

I have no idea where that came from!

[tonyh]

Perhaps you were subconsciously thinking:

Lanterne Rogue - rider who unnecessarily keeps the Organiser waiting?

[mattc]

Perhaps you were subconsciously thinking:

Lanterne Rogue - rider who unnecessarily keeps the Organiser waiting?

<applause>


_{Damn I wish I'd thought of that ...}

[LesH]

Perhaps you were subconsciously thinking:

Lanterne Rogue - rider who unnecessarily keeps the Organiser waiting?

<applause>