Bivvy bags

[Charlie Polecat]

This is a welcome and interesting thread, so I'd like to ask a couple of questions from those who have bike-packing experience.

I am planning to ride LeJog next May and have been trying to decide what tent/pad/sleeping bag arrangement to take.

I plan to camp wild so a tent etc. is required. I usually spend my summers back-packing around the Sierras in California and this is what I take for shelter on those trips:

Big Agnes Fly Creek UL 1 at 2 lbs
Self inflating sleeping pad at 8 oz.
Sub-Kilo + 20 down bag at 1lb 13 oz.

All this is somewhat bulky but packs down well into a back pack, but to carry all this on a bike is questionable so I have been considering eliminating some of this bulk by using a bivy.

I have never bike-packed before, so all this is going to be a new experience, one for which I am trying to eliminate any possible pit falls and ending up with stuff I simply cannot fit onto the bike.

Thanks for any helpful responses.

[Zed43]

AFAIK only Scotland allows wild camping. Personally I would only pitch my tent on camp sites in England. The main advantage of a bivvy is that it is stealthy, so it's easier to "go wild" even where you're not supposed to. The disadvantage, compared to a tent, is that it sucks ass when you have to "make camp" in the rain. If your bivvy of choice is available in multiple sizes, get the bigger one so you have a little room to move around / reorganise stuff with the zipper closed.

If I were to ride LEJoG for speed I would bring a bivvy (+pad +quilt) and sleep between 0:00 an 04:00 or thereabouts. Going for more enjoyment, I would skip the tent and use hostels and possibly b&b's.

FWIW, the Alpkit Koala saddlebag (regular size, 13L) holds my bivvy, 1/2 length air mattress, thin synthetic quilt, down vest and has a little room to spare. I'd say that if you want to bring a tent your bike needs a rack, and you probably want two small panniers (that sleeping bag will use at least half of one pannier); I can recommend the Ortlieb Frontrollers, sturdy and waterproof. Arkel Dry-Lites weigh about a pound less, but are smaller than advertised and the straps tore off after just 4 weeks of travel...

[Wycombewheeler]

AFAIK only Scotland allows wild camping.

I'm pretty sure it is also allowed in Dartmoor, but that's not much help, a long way between the two. BUT, sleeping between 00:00 and 04:00 a micro tent is probably stealthy enough to not be seen. trick is finding the right grassy patch village greens not on, most parks would be locked, if you choose a field you better be sure there are no cattle in there.

[Kim]

AFAIK only Scotland allows wild camping.

I'm pretty sure it is also allowed in Dartmoor, but that's not much help, a long way between the two. BUT, sleeping between 00:00 and 04:00 a micro tent is probably stealthy enough to not be seen. trick is finding the right grassy patch village greens not on, most parks would be locked, if you choose a field you better be sure there are no cattle in there.

Middle of a large roundabout would be traditional...

[Veloman]

Perhaps the first question should be how far do you want to cycle per day, what is the time constraint and how much sleep do you need? I think that might help decide the kit in terms of bulk and weight which will dictate the options for carrying it.
Light and fast or more heavy with comfort but slower.
Also, route might have a role and the option to take-up any offers of accommodation.

[Charlie Polecat]

"Middle of a large roundabout would be traditional." If a little noisy? Plus there is always the question of the night time pee.

"Perhaps the first question should be how far do you want to cycle per day, what is the time constraint and how much sleep do you need?" Probably 120 miles or so, I do want to allow time to see some sights other than the back end of the proverbial lorry. I'd like to get about 6 hours sleep a night, but my backpacking experience shows that less than that is usual due to night time calls of pissing - see comment above.

"Personally I would only pitch my tent on camp sites in England." Most camp sites and B&B's are off the route I plan to ride (End to End Cycle Route - Cicerone guide) so the attraction of a stretch of soft, well mowed grass behind a nice yew hedge for privacy with a duck pond a few feet away and a nice cafe on the edge of the green should prove popular with me.

[Bagman]

Charlie do LEJOG as an Audax 7 X 200 ride - see link below

http://markhbdm.wixsite.com/end2end/7x200

You have 10 days so you can have 3 days to visit sites etc

You can stop at Hotel/B&B every night.

[Veloman]

I assume you refer to this route and will adjust daily miles to be 120 or so:

https://ridewithgps.com/events/24960-lejog-2017#routes/16231649/preview

I don't think you will always be able to find:

a stretch of soft, well mowed grass behind a nice yew hedge for privacy with a duck pond a few feet away and a nice cafe on the edge of the green should prove popular with me.

and I realise you know that!

Quite a few folk have done the E2E on this Forum and while you have gone for that route, others are available.  (I have managed E2E on 3 occasions and while some roads were repeated, the overall route varied)

[Charlie Polecat]

"Charlie do LEJOG as an Audax 7 X 200 ride - see link below". Thanks Bagman, but unless rando rides are controlled differently in the UK than they are where I ride them, that would not be appealing.

"I assume you refer to this route and will adjust daily miles to be 120 or so:" That is correct Veloman. Also, I know there are many other routes but since this is my inaugural attempt, one route is probably as good as another.

Anyway, it is intended to be an adventure so my main concern is to ride roads that are cycle friendly and it appears the Cicerone route claims to be just that. But I am open to suggestions, which is part of the reason I chimed in here. At the end of the route I plan to continue on down the east coast to Inverness to pick up a hire  car for a few days driving.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[jsabine]

Thanks Bagman, but unless rando rides are controlled differently in the UK than they are where I ride them, that would not be appealing.

What bits of your local rules would make them unappealing? It's quite possible that AUK practice is different in the right areas. (Of course, you might not want to shoehorn your adventure into audax/rando constraints anyway.)

[Charlie Polecat]

What bits of your local rules would make them unappealing? It's quite possible that AUK practice is different in the right areas. (Of course, you might not want to shoehorn your adventure into audax/rando constraints anyway.)

Where I ride, brevets and perms have to be ridden on a fixed route with no deviation between controls. If a rider leaves the route then that rider has to rejoin the route at the exact point the rider left it, or is disqualified. So, it would not work on LeJog if I wanted to take detours.

[Wycombewheeler]

What bits of your local rules would make them unappealing? It's quite possible that AUK practice is different in the right areas. (Of course, you might not want to shoehorn your adventure into audax/rando constraints anyway.)

Where I ride, brevets and perms have to be ridden on a fixed route with no deviation between controls. If a rider leaves the route then that rider has to rejoin the route at the exact point the rider left it, or is disqualified. So, it would not work on LeJog if I wanted to take detours.

I don't think that is the case. You must visit the nominated control locations and provided the minimum distance between those locatipns is 200km you ate free to deviate intentionally or otherwise from that route.

Or you could choose mandatory route where the ridden gps and the planned gps must match which is useful if the planned route is not the most direct but means you must plan your detours ahead of time.

[Greenbank]

What bits of your local rules would make them unappealing? It's quite possible that AUK practice is different in the right areas. (Of course, you might not want to shoehorn your adventure into audax/rando constraints anyway.)

Where I ride, brevets and perms have to be ridden on a fixed route with no deviation between controls. If a rider leaves the route then that rider has to rejoin the route at the exact point the rider left it, or is disqualified. So, it would not work on LeJog if I wanted to take detours.

AUK is different to many other countries in that it generally allows free route between controls. Organisers here do have the option of making a particular ride mandatory route, but it's the exception and not the norm.

The LEJOG ride linked to above will be free route although you will need to invest some time in picking suitable controls along your route to make each day at least 200km and also collect the proof-of-passage evidence during the ride.

You would be free to detour however you would still need to visit the controls you've nominated in advance (typically 50-80km apart). Once you've committed to the controls you can't change them.

[Veloman]

But having to ride 200km per day might not give the flexibility desired as he might do 190km one day and 210km the next day, or even a 250/150 split.  Also, he might bivvy at 201km and have no PoP.
I think the comment about shoehorning an adventure into an audax could be very relevant. Not every ride needs to be an audax!

[Greenbank]

I'd added the following as an edit, but I'll move it into a separate post as you've replied.

Another restriction is if you did the 7x200km End2End Audax you'd have to do your 200km a day in a max of ~13h30m each day, so you can't start early and ride to somewhere, spend a long time looking around it, and then back on the road for a late finish. If you want to do that kind of thing, then you can do the entire ride as a populaire (just over 18 days to finish) but you don't get rando points for it. That removes the angst about start/finish times each day, or restrictions on exactly how much you must ride each day.

[Charlie Polecat]

Once again, thanks for all the suggestions and advice. And thanks also for introducing me to ALPKIT, a company I had never heard of. There is an excellent video on that site about bike packing which I found very useful - if a little over the top with the amount of gear the author was carrying. 

It's been a long time since I rode in Britain as a kid and I'm looking forward to the lower temperatures to be expected on my LeJog ride. I rode a 200K perm on Sunday where the high temperature on my bike computer was showing 102 degrees, it was a very hard ride so cooler temps will be very welcome.

Thanks again.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Have you heard of https://www.warmshowers.org/? Might be worth checking out.

Riding in May you can encounter anything from temperatures in the mid 20s (centigrade) to 10C below that. Night time a fair bit colder of course.

The main big variable is rain. There will either be very little, drizzle (most likely) or it will pour down with flooded roads (entirely possible).

Your gear needs to be able to keep you warm in less than 10C temperatures when you are tired and wet and it is windy. As you are an experienced hiker I'm sure you understand what sort of clothes you'll need for those conditions.

Windproof very breathable jackets are popular here, but if you have the money, a high-end very breathable waterproof jacket can be a good idea.

[Charlie Polecat]

No, that organisation is new to me, it would be nice to meet people along the way. On the couple of occasions I rode RABRAI across Iowa I would stay with a host family the first night and it was always a pleasure, so I'll take a look at warmshowers, thanks.

Riding in the rain is somewhat different to hiking in it, naturally the speed one is travelling affects the wind chill factor considerably, so I agree the need for a warm breathable top layer is very necessary. I have tons of rain jackets for riding and a particularly effective breathable hiking jacket by Outdoor Research with a hood which I intend to use to augment all the other layers. I'll end up looking like the Michelin man. 

Thanks for your ideas. 

[Veloman]

Have you heard of https://www.warmshowers.org/? Might be worth checking out.

No, that organisation is new to me, it would be nice to meet people along the way. On the couple of occasions I rode RABRAI across Iowa I would stay with a host family the first night and it was always a pleasure, so I'll take a look at warmshowers, thanks.

There is a thread somewhere on this Forum where folk offered a room for passing cyclists.  Not sure where it is or how many offers would be close enough to your route to accommodate a slight diversion.  Someone might be able to find it!

You might also find this site useful and accommodation is not all that expensive:

https://independenthostels.co.uk/uk-britain-gb-bunkhouses-hostels/

[Aunt Maud]

Not a fan of bivi bags at all, so I take a tent. I don't find the extra weight a problem and I get a lovely nights sleep anywhere there's a patch of secluded grass, even if it's raining.

What tent do you use? I assume you take a sleeping bag too. Could you fit them both in a bar bag?

I use a Terra Nova Laser tent. An MSR blow up mat and a MSR down duvet with a silk liner. They won't fit in a bar bag, as the tent has poles.

I used it on PBP, The HBKH, The BCM, Flatlands and loads of other longer rides at home and away, plus a 1700km jaunt through Germany at BRM speed to deliver my bike to London for the ride down to PBP.

It was lovely on PBP and I had 7 hours sleep each night with a Sunday start.

None of this bus shelter, cottaging or sleeping on bags of charcoal on garage forecourts stuff for me, thank you.

[Ajax Bay]

If you camp, take a Midge Net, at the very least for your head. You may be lucky in May.

[Veloman]

None of this bus shelter, cottaging or sleeping on bags of charcoal on garage forecourts stuff for me, thank you.

Speaking of which, it does result in getting your kit rather dirty, or at least so someone told me!