Author Topic: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?  (Read 142314 times)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1925 on: January 11, 2016, 08:18:21 am »
... and I'd rather not say any more on this thread now.   
...

Polar,
It would be really helpful if, when you wanted to make a criticism of something, you made it specific to a particular poster and, ideally, a specific post.  Otherwise it's really not that clear what you are objecting to. 
For example, your comment about undermining Steve is one that I also find ridiculous, but if you were able to cite specific comments which do that, it would help others to see if there was anything in it.

You nearly got me there.

If you genuinely read the posts and cannot see it then hey ho.   We will have to agree to differ on our interpretations of people's postings.   

I'd appreciate it if Phartiphukborlz, yourself and others didn't use words such as "ridiculous" unless of course this is how you address your family and friends, your colleagues and peers, and even strangers on a daily basis.   Respect costs nothing but is priceless.     

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1926 on: January 11, 2016, 08:22:43 am »
^^^^So far off topic...

Apologies as I have not caught up over the last few days .... Has there been more use of the bowl, or has Steve been on roads?   Any signs of increased mileage or change of approach? Have any car transfers happened?  Is he hitting the January targets?

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1927 on: January 11, 2016, 08:24:28 am »
Steve was on the road until midnight again, which may be a sensible thing as the later starts will avoid the deepest frosts in the days to come. What's not so encouraging was that it was for "only" 197.5 miles.

I do think modern traffic conditions mitigate against a successful attempt by anyone in the UK nowadays, whatever their ability.  Godwin's ability to utilise fast relatively empty  roads like the A1 whilst drafting must have helped enormously with his mileage. Similarly Kurt was able to use relatively quiet (and flat) roads. Steve using say the A14 these days isn't such an attractive proposition. 
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1928 on: January 11, 2016, 08:29:03 am »
I happen to think that there is an ongoing attempt to undermine Steve's record attempt

Really?  You think some people want Steve to fail so they're trying to bring that about by posting on YACF?  Really really? 

Sorry but that's just ridiculous.
Which bit is ridiculous? (just so we can be really really clear!)


Pretty much this entire thread to be honest. 

It's turned into more of a willy-waving contest that anything vaguely resembling a debate, even of those with diametrically opposed ideas.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1929 on: January 11, 2016, 08:30:58 am »
I see nothing overly anomalous about Steve’s power figures. The bike has bits and pieces stuck out everywhere and Steve’s attire is not a skin-suit.
I’m not exactly ‘aerodynamic’ on my Audaxy bike, which gives figures of 75 W at 12.5 mph, 115 W at 15mph and 180 W at 18 mph.

MY Shiv gives 20 mph for 180W input into the cranks.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1930 on: January 11, 2016, 08:40:04 am »
^^^^So far off topic...

Apologies as I have not caught up over the last few days .... Has there been more use of the bowl, or has Steve been on roads?   Any signs of increased mileage or change of approach? Have any car transfers happened?  Is he hitting the January targets?

Bowl - once as a test.
Roads - Mainly.
The rest - No (or  "Not Yet" if you're an optimist)
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1931 on: January 11, 2016, 08:44:32 am »
Steve was on the road until midnight again, which may be a sensible thing as the later starts will avoid the deepest frosts in the days to come. What's not so encouraging was that it was for "only" 197.5 miles.

I do think modern traffic conditions mitigate against a successful attempt by anyone in the UK nowadays, whatever their ability.  Godwin's ability to utilise fast relatively empty  roads like the A1 whilst drafting must have helped enormously with his mileage. Similarly Kurt was able to use relatively quiet (and flat) roads. Steve using say the A14 these days isn't such an attractive proposition.

It depends on the time of the week.  For example, the A11/A14 between FourWentWays and Red Lodge is just about the fastest stretch of tarmac for cycling in the country.  It is used a lot for time trials - but only before 9am on Sunday mornings and on Saturday afternoons.   Two laps of that on a Sunday morning could give Steve 100 miles in close to 5 hours, without needing more power.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1932 on: January 11, 2016, 09:00:55 am »
You nearly got me there.

If you genuinely read the posts and cannot see it then hey ho.   We will have to agree to differ on our interpretations of people's postings.   

I'd appreciate it if Phartiphukborlz, yourself and others didn't use words such as "ridiculous" unless of course this is how you address your family and friends, your colleagues and peers, and even strangers on a daily basis.   Respect costs nothing but is priceless.     

Most people would think that "ridiculous" is a perfectly acceptable word to use in almost any situation.  I don't see anything unpleasant about it at all.  Do you, PB, think it is acceptable for someone here to tell people they disagree with to fuck off?  That has been done twice already.  I'm afraid the hate and unpleasantness is all coming from one side.  They simply can't stand the facts of Steve's challenge being discussed and analysed because they perceive it as somehow disloyal - a strange stance to take on a discussion forum.

BTW, could the reason you are unwilling / unable to quote any posts that are "deliberately trying to undermine Steve's attempt" be  because they don't exist?  Those making this assertion before have repeatedly been asked to quote such posts but always declined.  In any decent forum (which this one undoubtedly is) the etiquette is "quote it or it didn't happen".  I can't see any other way you can have a meaningful discussion.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1933 on: January 11, 2016, 09:08:20 am »
It depends on the time of the week.  For example, the A11/A14 between FourWentWays and Red Lodge is just about the fastest stretch of tarmac for cycling in the country.  It is used a lot for time trials - but only before 9am on Sunday mornings and on Saturday afternoons.   Two laps of that on a Sunday morning could give Steve 100 miles in close to 5 hours, without needing more power.
But Frank, there are other things, such as event signage and the presence of other cyclists on the road, that greatly enhance drivers' awareness of the presence of riders.  I've felt pretty safe racing the E2 courses (though the spearhead sliproads are always a bit scary), but would never dream of riding on the A11 or A14 recreationally!

I wish those bloody persistent knockers of Steve's gargantuan efforts would bugger off and crawl under a stone too.
FFS people, if you cannot support his attempt, fuck off and whimper elsewhere.

Anyways, I don't like being told to b*gger off, nor to f*ck off, because of some perceived disloyalty to Steve - I thought YACF was rather better than that - so I'll just watch this one from the sidelines from now on.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1934 on: January 11, 2016, 09:11:49 am »
Steve was on the road until midnight again, which may be a sensible thing as the later starts will avoid the deepest frosts in the days to come. What's not so encouraging was that it was for "only" 197.5 miles.

I do think modern traffic conditions mitigate against a successful attempt by anyone in the UK nowadays, whatever their ability.  Godwin's ability to utilise fast relatively empty  roads like the A1 whilst drafting must have helped enormously with his mileage. Similarly Kurt was able to use relatively quiet (and flat) roads. Steve using say the A14 these days isn't such an attractive proposition.

It depends on the time of the week.  For example, the A11/A14 between FourWentWays and Red Lodge is just about the fastest stretch of tarmac for cycling in the country.  It is used a lot for time trials - but only before 9am on Sunday mornings and on Saturday afternoons.   Two laps of that on a Sunday morning could give Steve 100 miles in close to 5 hours, without needing more power.

Hi Frank,

Amid the interpersonal posts that are getting a bit dull - Im finding some of your posts really interesting. 
How come that stretch of road is so fast?  Is it sheltered or just nicely undulating or what?   

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1935 on: January 11, 2016, 09:22:42 am »
Steve was on the road until midnight again, which may be a sensible thing as the later starts will avoid the deepest frosts in the days to come. What's not so encouraging was that it was for "only" 197.5 miles.

I do think modern traffic conditions mitigate against a successful attempt by anyone in the UK nowadays, whatever their ability.  Godwin's ability to utilise fast relatively empty  roads like the A1 whilst drafting must have helped enormously with his mileage. Similarly Kurt was able to use relatively quiet (and flat) roads. Steve using say the A14 these days isn't such an attractive proposition.

It depends on the time of the week.  For example, the A11/A14 between FourWentWays and Red Lodge is just about the fastest stretch of tarmac for cycling in the country.  It is used a lot for time trials - but only before 9am on Sunday mornings and on Saturday afternoons.   Two laps of that on a Sunday morning could give Steve 100 miles in close to 5 hours, without needing more power.



Hi Frank,

Amid the interpersonal posts that are getting a bit dull - Im finding some of your posts really interesting. 
How come that stretch of road is so fast?  Is it sheltered or just nicely undulating or what?

Very flat, very straight with few roundabouts and pretty good surface.  Also reasonably sheltered. But IMO possibly a bit risky other than "out of hours".  The general problem I find in the Fens is exposure to wind, with most of the roads sitting higher than surrounding fields (which sunk as they drained) and sparse hedge coverage in some areas.

That said, the 12 miles into a SW could easily be 12 miles of following wind with the right planning.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

mattc

  • "Hannibal"
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    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1936 on: January 11, 2016, 09:31:58 am »
BTW, could the reason you are unwilling / unable to quote any posts that are "deliberately trying to undermine Steve's attempt" be  because they don't exist?
Plenty of people think the current attempt is doomed (some have given logical reasons, some have made their concern for Steve clear). It's hardly surprising when they make many posts that discourage the current attempt.

(There are also posts that IMO are just trolling, or just pessimistic with no constructive content; but I accept that these exist in a grey area, and you/I/PB will rarely come to agreement on them, no matter how much quoting we do! )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1937 on: January 11, 2016, 09:48:01 am »
Steve was on the road until midnight again, which may be a sensible thing as the later starts will avoid the deepest frosts in the days to come. What's not so encouraging was that it was for "only" 197.5 miles.

I do think modern traffic conditions mitigate against a successful attempt by anyone in the UK nowadays, whatever their ability.  Godwin's ability to utilise fast relatively empty  roads like the A1 whilst drafting must have helped enormously with his mileage. Similarly Kurt was able to use relatively quiet (and flat) roads. Steve using say the A14 these days isn't such an attractive proposition.

It depends on the time of the week.  For example, the A11/A14 between FourWentWays and Red Lodge is just about the fastest stretch of tarmac for cycling in the country.  It is used a lot for time trials - but only before 9am on Sunday mornings and on Saturday afternoons.   Two laps of that on a Sunday morning could give Steve 100 miles in close to 5 hours, without needing more power.

Hi Frank,

Amid the interpersonal posts that are getting a bit dull - Im finding some of your posts really interesting. 
How come that stretch of road is so fast?  Is it sheltered or just nicely undulating or what?

It is debated endlessly on the time trialling forum and no-one knows why. But firstly it's a dual carriageway hence you get help from passing traffic. This counts for a lot.
Secondly, while it rolls up and down, there are not big hills to destroy your momentum.
Thirdly, the tarmac is smooth.
However the first three apply to lots of UK roads. The tarmac here does seem to be fast. One theory is that, as the other really fast bit is near Hull, all the trucks going to the ports roll it flat!
The disadvantage is that it is very exposed so not worth going to on a windy day.


Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - a Pacific bike ride
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1938 on: January 11, 2016, 09:50:01 am »
I'd appreciate it if Phartiphukborlz, yourself and others didn't use words such as "ridiculous" unless of course this is how you address your family and friends, your colleagues and peers, and even strangers on a daily basis.   Respect costs nothing but is priceless.     

Your talk of "deliberately trying to undermine ... " is accusing other people of posting maliciously.  You then call for more respect.  Now I've heard it all.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1939 on: January 11, 2016, 09:52:15 am »
It depends on the time of the week.  For example, the A11/A14 between FourWentWays and Red Lodge is just about the fastest stretch of tarmac for cycling in the country.  It is used a lot for time trials - but only before 9am on Sunday mornings and on Saturday afternoons.   Two laps of that on a Sunday morning could give Steve 100 miles in close to 5 hours, without needing more power.
But Frank, there are other things, such as event signage and the presence of other cyclists on the road, that greatly enhance drivers' awareness of the presence of riders.  I've felt pretty safe racing the E2 courses (though the spearhead sliproads are always a bit scary), but would never dream of riding on the A11 or A14 recreationally!
Understand that, but Steve could go along and ride while there is a TT on. That would give him perhaps a dozen shots at it per year with other riders and signs. 
Also, I agree it gets a bit hairy from 8:30am onwards but until, say 7:30, it's pretty quiet. 


mattc

  • "Hannibal"
  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1940 on: January 11, 2016, 10:02:13 am »
I'd appreciate it if Phartiphukborlz, yourself and others didn't use words such as "ridiculous" unless of course this is how you address your family and friends, your colleagues and peers, and even strangers on a daily basis.   Respect costs nothing but is priceless.     

Your talk of "deliberately trying to undermine ... " is accusing other people of posting maliciously.  You then call for more respect.  Now I've heard it all.
I think I've addressed this in my post (n-2).
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1941 on: January 11, 2016, 10:21:00 am »
Some thing I thought of at the start of the attempt was that most of us know a 20-50 mile looped section near to us that is 'fast'.   Many of us also know 4 or 5 of these that we would use to go 'fast' depending on the wind and weather.   I have a normal 'fast; 40 mile route that is great, but it no longer becomes 'fast' with certain wind directions as the really long exposed sections would become a slog instead of being 25-30mph with very little effort

I have been surprised that Steve hasn't used many fast loops and has instead gone with 'point to point' or 'out and backs'.  When he has used roads near me (quite often) I have been impressed that he has used a number of the 'fast roads' to pass through (which shows how much road knowledge he has stored up top) but he has then strayed out of the area onto roads that I think are a real slog to get towards his end destination.... and after looking back at the stats for those days his pace has plummeted after he left the area.

I would like to see his team ask local riders to suggest some 5-30 mile loops that are fast in certain wind directions.
I am not an experienced rider but I could easily give 3 local loops, each favoring a different prevailing wind,  that are much faster than what Steve rides when he comes to my area.  Some of you lot must have an absolute encyclopedic knowledge of your local area.  The trick would be to look at which way the wind was from Milton Keynes...then use that as a tail wind to head towards a recommended loop that also favored that wind direction ...that way he gets a boost there, then gets a favored wind on the loop.   Then maybe ask for a car transfer home too.

If there was a database of maybe 10-20 routes built up that are within 20-30 miles of Steves home then he could trial them and chose each day based on the wind direction, then head to that loop and get some cheap, fast miles in.   Once a network of these loops was built the money in the bank could be used to have food provided for Steve in that area and maybe find a local sports physio to provide some massage at the start and finish?

Maybe this has been looked into and ruled out or its just not how Steve wants to go.   For me that's the only way I could see someone in this country sustaining a crack at this effort and keeping the average speed up.


Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1942 on: January 11, 2016, 10:50:43 am »
Some thing I thought of at the start of the attempt was that most of us know a 20-50 mile looped section near to us that is 'fast'.   Many of us also know 4 or 5 of these that we would use to go 'fast' depending on the wind and weather.   I have a normal 'fast; 40 mile route that is great, but it no longer becomes 'fast' with certain wind directions as the really long exposed sections would become a slog instead of being 25-30mph with very little effort

I have been surprised that Steve hasn't used many fast loops and has instead gone with 'point to point' or 'out and backs'.  When he has used roads near me (quite often) I have been impressed that he has used a number of the 'fast roads' to pass through (which shows how much road knowledge he has stored up top) but he has then strayed out of the area onto roads that I think are a real slog to get towards his end destination.... and after looking back at the stats for those days his pace has plummeted after he left the area.

I would like to see his team ask local riders to suggest some 5-30 mile loops that are fast in certain wind directions.
I am not an experienced rider but I could easily give 3 local loops, each favoring a different prevailing wind,  that are much faster than what Steve rides when he comes to my area.  Some of you lot must have an absolute encyclopedic knowledge of your local area.  The trick would be to look at which way the wind was from Milton Keynes...then use that as a tail wind to head towards a recommended loop that also favored that wind direction ...that way he gets a boost there, then gets a favored wind on the loop.   Then maybe ask for a car transfer home too.

If there was a database of maybe 10-20 routes built up that are within 20-30 miles of Steves home then he could trial them and chose each day based on the wind direction, then head to that loop and get some cheap, fast miles in.   Once a network of these loops was built the money in the bank could be used to have food provided for Steve in that area and maybe find a local sports physio to provide some massage at the start and finish?

Maybe this has been looked into and ruled out or its just not how Steve wants to go.   For me that's the only way I could see someone in this country sustaining a crack at this effort and keeping the average speed up.

There is such a database, built up over almost 100 years, by thousands of cyclists looking for fast roads. It's called the list of time trial courses. 

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1943 on: January 11, 2016, 10:52:47 am »
Some thing I thought of at the start of the attempt was that most of us know a 20-50 mile looped section near to us that is 'fast'.   Many of us also know 4 or 5 of these that we would use to go 'fast' depending on the wind and weather.   I have a normal 'fast; 40 mile route that is great, but it

Maybe this has been looked into and ruled out or its just not how Steve wants to go.   For me that's the only way I could see someone in this country sustaining a crack at this effort and keeping the average speed up.




I am pretty certain that the TEAM has but believe Steve wishes to get the record 'HIS WAY '

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1944 on: January 11, 2016, 10:54:32 am »
Some thing I thought of at the start of the attempt was that most of us know a 20-50 mile looped section near to us that is 'fast'.   Many of us also know 4 or 5 of these that we would use to go 'fast' depending on the wind and weather.   I have a normal 'fast; 40 mile route that is great, but it no longer becomes 'fast' with certain wind directions as the really long exposed sections would become a slog instead of being 25-30mph with very little effort

I have been surprised that Steve hasn't used many fast loops and has instead gone with 'point to point' or 'out and backs'.  When he has used roads near me (quite often) I have been impressed that he has used a number of the 'fast roads' to pass through (which shows how much road knowledge he has stored up top) but he has then strayed out of the area onto roads that I think are a real slog to get towards his end destination.... and after looking back at the stats for those days his pace has plummeted after he left the area.

I would like to see his team ask local riders to suggest some 5-30 mile loops that are fast in certain wind directions.
I am not an experienced rider but I could easily give 3 local loops, each favoring a different prevailing wind,  that are much faster than what Steve rides when he comes to my area.  Some of you lot must have an absolute encyclopedic knowledge of your local area.  The trick would be to look at which way the wind was from Milton Keynes...then use that as a tail wind to head towards a recommended loop that also favored that wind direction ...that way he gets a boost there, then gets a favored wind on the loop.   Then maybe ask for a car transfer home too.

If there was a database of maybe 10-20 routes built up that are within 20-30 miles of Steves home then he could trial them and chose each day based on the wind direction, then head to that loop and get some cheap, fast miles in.   Once a network of these loops was built the money in the bank could be used to have food provided for Steve in that area and maybe find a local sports physio to provide some massage at the start and finish?

Maybe this has been looked into and ruled out or its just not how Steve wants to go.   For me that's the only way I could see someone in this country sustaining a crack at this effort and keeping the average speed up.

There is such a database, built up over almost 100 years, by thousands of cyclists looking for fast roads. It's called the list of time trial courses.

Ok, but how many of those courses are within reach of Steves base, how many are on suitable roads to use 'all day' and how many are loops?   Genuine question- I don't know enough about time trialing to answer.

I know the local TT routes to me are mainly 10-20 miles from point to point.   Im not aware of many loops.... however, I do know from personal experience how to link those local TTs up to take advantage of weather- that's the kind of routes I would like to see Steve hitting.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1945 on: January 11, 2016, 10:56:44 am »
I did five long interviews with Steve, and he consistently mentioned that his Fenland loop has evolved to use the shelter of hedged lanes inland, and to use tailwind assistance on the open sections. He has specifically cited Thetford Forest as sheltered. He's optimised the routes available to him.
It might be interesting to send a fit rider around that circuit to see how fast it is. I suspect that Steve has honed a fast route through continuous experiment.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1946 on: January 11, 2016, 11:01:26 am »
Steve seems to have done 3002km so far in 2016 (in the first 10 days). Not bad at all.

186.5mpd, I make that.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1947 on: January 11, 2016, 11:04:19 am »
I did five long interviews with Steve, and he consistently mentioned that his Fenland loop has evolved to use the shelter of hedged lanes inland, and to use tailwind assistance on the open sections. He has specifically cited Thetford Forest as sheltered. He's optimised the routes available to him.
It might be interesting to send a fit rider around that circuit to see how fast it is. I suspect that Steve has honed a fast route through continuous experiment.

Living not far from there and occasionally riding there, I'd have to agree.  If you can stay out of the winds getting there its probably the most sheltered area around here.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1948 on: January 11, 2016, 11:07:38 am »
Steve's post from September is relevant:-

(I've trimmed it down but you can go back and read the full post and the ones that led up to that by clicking on the link above the quote.

...
Travelodging seems to be better than hosting. It opens up my options a lot more so I can use the best roads for the wind conditions rather than have to do loops into headwinds etc
...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Tigerrr

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #1949 on: January 11, 2016, 01:11:10 pm »

The fact that exceeding the record remains within Steve’s reach and capability means that this thread has a long way to go.

Absolutely - and so does Steve.

It just seems to me that many on this sub-board are keen to write his attempt off. Threads on his days are tinged with posts of "Only xxx miles well that was not enough" and "I can't see how he can do this based on that" or " I would have thought he should have been managing...."

While lots of us here have spent a lot of time on the what-ifs, I don’t think even the most negative of posters has suggested that there is any self-doubt on Steve’s part.

Perhaps not and to be honest I have not read everything posted but I am sick of reading posts with a theme around damning his efforts with feint praise or even suggesting that he is in some way in denial (for example).

FFS people, if you cannot support his attempt, fuck off and whimper elsewhere.

H

If a thread inviting discussion of the record attempt leads to the descent into unpleasant incontinence of the last line of the above post then the thread should have been stopped, or only cheerleaders allowed to post. Given the well known status of the poster in the YACF community I suspect people are hesitant to call out this type of bully-boy behaviour. It is not excellent at all, regardless of whoever posts in that tone.
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