Author Topic: Why the need for more money?  (Read 7565 times)

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2016, 07:35:08 pm »
Stifling debate by criticising posts either way...

You'd know all about that wouldn't you. Personally I wish you'd STFU unless you have anything to contribute rather than your almost continual stream of nasty, sniping comments.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2016, 07:46:32 pm »
Blimey, I think this thread needs some of this:

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 07:50:13 pm »
I think the thread needs to get back on track.

Perhaps it will with a meaningful financial update from the team.

Cue: a picture of flying pigs.

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 08:22:48 pm »
Fidgetbuzz's tenure as head of finance was marked by his desire to keep donors informed about the state of the accounts.  He was the only one of the original team that seemed to feel any need to be accountable (pun intended), possibly against the will of others (which is presumably why things broke down).

Whoever is doing the finances now obviously feels no similar obligation.  Back to the bunker.

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2016, 08:38:44 pm »
As a sort of addendum to my earlier post https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=95167.msg1969242#msg1969242 I think it is worth mentioning again that the earlier version of Steve’s donation page had a link beside the bank details that allowed one to let the team know that you had donated, thereby providing them with contact details. For those who did not take that option, the team have no way of contacting them, which I think mitigates the lack of updates to a degree.

The option to let the team know has disappeared now but there is the option of signing up to a planned newsletter:

http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/newsletter


Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 08:42:40 pm »
Fidgetbuzz's tenure as head of finance was marked by his desire to keep donors informed about the state of the accounts.  He was the only one of the original team that seemed to feel any need to be accountable (pun intended), possibly against the will of others (which is presumably why things broke down).

Whoever is doing the finances now obviously feels no similar obligation.  Back to the bunker.



Could not agree more. He was the only one who acknowledged donations.  My thanks to him for his email updates.  As the fund is still very healthy until August why is there the wish  (at the moment ) to increase it?  If Steve would accept more support and more money was needed then a cry for help would be all that were needed

Ben T

  • Ringer at 5
Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 09:15:42 pm »
Stifling debate by criticising posts either way...  ;)

Anyway, LWaB has said that he intends to reduce his outflow, with a nice personally directed metaphor. Chapeau.

EDIT
My apologies, Jaded.  I'm told that a car crash in slow motion would have been a better turn of phrase.

I once had a car crash. I find that personally directed metaphor highly offensive to such an extent that I'm actively traumatized.  ::-)
We are where we are.

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2016, 09:50:30 pm »
I am happy to continue my support for Steve. Please can someone PM me the changed details?

H

+1

And me please.


The details are, AFAIA, available on the donations page of Steve's website - http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/donate

(In fact, they're there as an image, so embedding it here might work ...)



That wont help for international payments.

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2016, 10:02:42 pm »
I am happy to continue my support for Steve. Please can someone PM me the changed details?

H

+1

And me please.


The details are, AFAIA, available on the donations page of Steve's website - http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/donate

(In fact, they're there as an image, so embedding it here might work ...)



That wont help for international payments.

That's irrelevant it's an exclusively British record  :)
Garry Broad

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2016, 10:51:31 pm »
That wont help for international payments.

The previous account details wouldn't have either. It was a change from one UK bank account to another.

The donation page also contains a link to donate via PayPal. Those details haven't changed and that should work for international donations (assuming you don't boycott Paypal). There's no need to have a PayPal account to make a donation through them, they'll take the money from a debit or credit card.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2016, 12:57:35 am »
That wont help for international payments.

It's entirely possible that members of Steve's team would be able to provide IBAN details (or whatever you need) if you (or any other putative international donor) asked them directly, while, as GB notes, there's also a paypal link on the donation page.

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2016, 04:32:07 am »

I'm not even sure that it's relevant to consider him a sole trader. If he's just an individual and a number of other individuals have freely chosen to give him small amounts of money periodically, is it even relevant what he calls himself? I wouldn't have thought any tax would be due unless he's receiving huge amounts of money from specific individuals. I'm not an accountant but my understanding is that if someone decided they just wanted to chuck a few quid my way the nice men at HMRC take no interest until "a few quid" starts to mean a fair chunk of change. The money has presumably already been taxed once and is being handed over as a gift rather than a payment for goods or services.


You would be wrong, entirely.

All the money given to Steve either in cash or benefit may be considered his income, and taxable, no matter that it was paid over by taxpayers. All the sponsorship may be considered benefit in kind, and taxable. Of course the first £10K would be covered by allowances. Technically whatever account it is paid into, if it is "his" money it is his income to declare. Conceivably if held at arm's length (as in, a third party's account) it should be easier not to have to recognise the revenue stream as it appeared. In addition to that, Steve will need to consider the status of his national insurance contributions or risk a penalty to his pension in later years.

I'm surprised by that, I'd have thought that money freely given in exchange for nothing would count as a gift and therefore not income unless any one individual gave enough to make it liable for what always used to be called capital transfer tax.

The national insurance issue where pensions are concerned is obviously a potentially valid concern, although if donations are considered income and subject to income tax they would probably also be subject to NIC as well? If that's the case maybe the pension issue isn't a problem.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2016, 04:34:00 am »
Arrived in OZ 12 hours ago -- not able to find time to read all of this thread  -- but some quickies -- Steve is not a sole trader -- you are making donations, gifts or presents to him .. it is not taxable income in his hands and for a donor falls foul of inheritance tax rules if you a) donate more than £3000 a year in slugs of £250 - and b) also die within 7 years . Do remember I was never a personal tax specialist -- so this might be a slightly incorrect summary -- but the gist is right.

As regards  the change of bank details -- the logic is straight forward -- when I stood down mid Sept - rather than ask all existing standing order donors to cancel the payment to my Steve account and reissue a new instruction to their bank -- when there might well have been quite a few who  were stopping at Dec anyway ..   so scope to ignore forget cock up etc   -- we decided to let things lie -- and each 1st of the month I transfer to Steves own personal account the balance and inform Idai of the detail. This involves me in about 10 minutes work a month -- and I am happy to continue to do this.  Now in 2016 the sums coming into my Steve account will diminish as those who were in for 12 months will stop -- and later on April / May -- I ( or we) might have a go at getting those that are still continuing to transfer across.

At one time there was discussion amongst the team that several people should have access to Steves personal account -- I advised Steve against this -- as the scope for misunderstandings, an dlack of accountability was too great .. whether he took my advice I do not know. The need to actually PAY things was tiny --, Steve carried a debit card on my Steve account and  the MK crew had  a float advance which they accounted to me on a monthly basis and were then reimbursed, and as I discovered when I stepped away the debit card for Steves personal account was already held by one of the MK crew anyway. Any other payments were extremely unusual ( entry to 24 hour TT etc and all the PBP organisation , ferries, hotels , support vehicle)) -- so the need for multiple access to the account seemed inappropriate to me. And without in any way casting aspersions -- there are many cases of trusted officials and treasurers borrowing cash which they always intend to pay back -- but actually fail to do so. I am afraid I bring 40 years of cynicism with me .. so my mantra would be "" Minimise the risk"" so in this case .. reduce the number of people with access to the cash.. 

As regards total funds -- when I stepped down -- as far as I could judge, given the cash balance and even assuming that no standing orders continued into 2016 - there would have been sufficient funds for Steve to have continued in the same sort of way thru to Aug 2016.. but if he started using vehicle transfers a lot , or decided that 3 months at a gite in Southern France was needed or serious professional advice on nutrition and diet then these would have been factors that I would not have considered as they were and are "" Unknowns "" .

I will read this thread more carefully when I hav etime -- but if you do have a specific query that I can fairly reply to ( and exact detail of the cash balance I handed over etc is inappropriate ) -- please pm me
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2016, 08:28:23 am »
Fidgetbuzz, Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2016, 10:33:07 am »
Fidgetbuzz, Thanks for the info :thumbsup:



PLUS ONE  :thumbsup:

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2016, 10:59:52 am »
That wont help for international payments.

The previous account details wouldn't have either. It was a change from one UK bank account to another.

The donation page also contains a link to donate via PayPal. Those details haven't changed and that should work for international donations (assuming you don't boycott Paypal). There's no need to have a PayPal account to make a donation through them, they'll take the money from a debit or credit card.

The previous details did since there was an IBAN number mentioned at least here on YACF.

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2016, 11:07:57 am »
That wont help for international payments.

The previous account details wouldn't have either. It was a change from one UK bank account to another.

The donation page also contains a link to donate via PayPal. Those details haven't changed and that should work for international donations (assuming you don't boycott Paypal). There's no need to have a PayPal account to make a donation through them, they'll take the money from a debit or credit card.

The previous details did since there was an IBAN number mentioned at least here on YACF.

You can calculate the IBAN from the sort code and account number given.

http://www.ibancalculator.com/bic_und_iban.html

Gives this for that sort code and account number: IBAN: GB79MIDL40231111386093

Caveat donator. You donation may be at risk if you do not get this checked before using it, etc, etc. It looks legit to me as the last 14 digits are just the original sort code and account number, the first bit is the two letter country code and I guess Steve banks with what was Midland Bank, now HSBC (and the sort code confirms that), and the 79 are check digits which pass the various IBAN checkers I can find.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2016, 11:10:12 am »
Or just email the team?

I know they're not great communicators, but I am sure they can provide that information.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2016, 12:10:29 pm »
-- Steve is not a sole trader -- you are making donations, gifts or presents to him .. it is not taxable income in his hands and for a donor falls foul of inheritance tax rules if you a) donate more than £3000 a year in slugs of £250 - and b) also die within 7 years . Do remember I was never a personal tax specialist -- so this might be a slightly incorrect summary -- but the gist is right.



Thanks for that FB. I've no idea what sort of sums we are talking about, I assume around the taxable threshold. But I had visions of the project running away with itself, and Steve left with an unforeseen liability at the end. The notion of gifts and inheritance tax fits well with the idea of Steve being supported by a family of donors.

I've got footage of a discussion between Heather and yourself about the catering and payment facilities at PBP, there are a number of discussions about that in fact. It's possible to be analytical and critical about an event you love. In fact if you have any insight, it's important that you do analyse and criticise.

It's something that we Brits find difficult to do, except in hindsight. I asked a German at the Semaine Federale if they could organise something on that scale in Germany. She felt that any detailed analysis would show that the event would fail, so no-one would take it on. Everyone assumes that the British will make a virtue of muddling through in the first instance, tighten things up as they go along, and finally win out. Mainly because they don't know when they are beaten, due to a lack of management information.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2016, 12:12:51 pm »
That's how we won the war!
[/captain mainwaring]

Re: Why the need for more money?
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2016, 12:21:33 pm »
PBP and LEL have their project management tourists. Once you've project managed your own participation a few times, you look round and wonder how the event is put on. Heather DNF'd once, finished in time once, supported and filmed twice, and filmed once. This edition she was timing the cashiers in the cafeteria at Brest to determine if that was the main bottleneck. If you've managed a control on LEL since 2001 it interests you.