e-scooter trial

[Cudzoziemiec]

Wasn't Boss Hogg Cameron?

[hatler]

Wasn't Boss Hogg Cameron?

SPLORT !!

[Mr Larrington]

Bloody Stupid Johnson is Sheriff Rosco P Coltrane's evil twin.

[Pedaldog.]

Bloody Stupid Johnson is Sheriff Rosco P Coltrane's evil twin.

Bozo P Coltrane?

[DuncanM]

One of the papers (I forget which - saw it through an aggregator) was suggesting that the new legislation would, in addition to a 15.5mph speed limit, also make 3rd party insurance and helmet use compulsory for e-scooters. That's a way more slippery slope leading to those things being needed for e-bike (and eventually bicycle) riders than CTT helmet rules. 

[Adam]

The new Transport Bill supposed to be appearing soon will apparently create a new vehicle category for e-scooters.

Also, the London trial is being extended until 22nd November.  So that might be when they expect the new legislation to take effect.

[fd3]

New vehicle category for e-scooters (and bikes what you don't need to pedal) makes sense.
I reckon less people in vehicles and more people on scooters/bikes is a good thing.  It's totally a gateway drug to cycling.

[Adam]

The data seems to show that less than 20% of e-scooter trips replace car use.  The rest comes from replacing walking, cycling and public transport.  E-scooters aren't a gateway to cycling.

[tom_e]

Possibly not, but I'm not sure that's an argument against them either.

Is there a breakdown for that statistic?  I'm curious if much of it is covid related shift out of public transport rather than anything else.

[hatler]

In the way that any new form of transport facilitates travel, I would think that e-scooters will result in an increase in the number of people going somewhere.

Instead of walking to the local shop opposite where milk is expensive, I'll hop on the e-scooter to go that extra mile to Tesco's where it's cheaper.

[Adam]

Is there a breakdown for that statistic?  I'm curious if much of it is covid related shift out of public transport rather than anything else.

There's nothing available showing the effect on public transport.

In respect of the Bristol trial, 44% cent of journeys would otherwise have been walked, 6% cycled and 31% driven.
https://thebristolcable.org/2021/07/bristol-voi-e-scooters-are-replacing-more-walking-and-cycling-than-car-journeys/

Separately, in a submission to the Government, Sustrans flagged up that abroad, up to 30% would have used public transport if e-scooters weren't available.

See page 3: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/6051/pdf/

[Cudzoziemiec]

I doubt if they're a gateway drug to anything other than better scooters, for the riders. But their presence on the road does improve conditions for cycling, because they move in a similar way in terms of speed, trajectories, size. And they might be a gateway drug into not-driving, just through their sheer convenience.

[Pickled Onion]

Whether the figure's 20% or 30% I think that's a really good figure, considering the attitude of most drivers to two-wheelers of all kinds.

If you've got a car and are used to driving everywhere, there's quite a barrier to making a journey by escooter compared to jumping in the car that's right there in front of your house.

[fd3]

Any other mode of transport that is notcar which reduces the number of car journeys is a positive.
In the immediate term we are seeing people who would bike using them, but if they stop people getting cars they increase the proportion of notcar and make notcar a more accepted option.
From there notcar+health will lead to walking and cycling.

(click to show/hide)

maybe

[chrisbainbridge]

I think that it is just possible that a cool, non-sporting, no personal energy expenditure mode of transport for the masses may take off and add enough volume to our roads that cars are seen as the second class user, especially in cities.  I think we should be supporting e-scooters with everything we have got.  The last thing we want is for them to be frozen out by the need for helmets, licenses, etc

[fd3]

I think the legal (hire) ones require a drivers license.

[Kim]

I think the legal (hire) ones require a drivers license.

Yes, they need a category Q moped licence.  Which I'm reasonably sure you get by default with a provisional car/motorcycle licence.

But that's special rules for the purposes of the trials.  I'm hoping they ditch that requirement and bring them in line with e-bikes.

[MikeFromLFE]

I got the impression that the licence requirement was more to do with age verification than anything else.

I'd tend to agree with Chris's stance, although I do have a concern about how non-standard (eg chipped) machines will be detected /dealt with - that's to say what enforcement of any rules will there be?

Although it's not e-Scooters I've just come back from one of the local parks where The Yoof were racing e-Bikes (non-compliant, no pedalling) - which are in essence motorbikes. There is no enforcement of the rules around e-Bikes, what makes anyone think there will be of e-Scooters?

[Kim]

I, for one, expect enforcement to be limited to the occasional high-profile crack-down by the Met and where it serves as an opportunity to stop and search members of $marginalised_group.  And a bit of trading standards stuff at point of sale.

I find it hard to get worked up about a few people driving unrestricted motorcycles at excessive speed when there are so many driving unrestricted cars at excessive speed.


The rule requiring e-cycles cranks turn is needless disablist rubbish (and I think the scooters clearly illustrate that).  If an ebike rider is otherwise riding sensibly with hand-throttle control, then good luck to them.

[fd3]

I generally agree.  I think they should look into limiting e-bikes/scooters to 20mph or less; but they should probably focus on unlicensed/insured drivers first, speeding drivers second and then maybe then consider people riding at 25mph on a bike.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Larger wheels! Shinier cup phone holder! Safer breaks (wot?)! Automated turn indicator switch (what?)! Improved suspension!
It's the all new (well actually only 70% new, it's 30% made from recycled materials) Voiager 5! May be ridden by all humans, vulcans, borgs and others.
https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/meet-vois-latest-e-scooter/

[Cudzoziemiec]

Also:

Voi says it worked with groups such as Open Inclusion and Women in Transport to make the V5 more inclusive, and is currently working with Lazarillo, an app that improves accessibility for blind and visually-impaired people.

Hopefully this means they won't be parked in quite such haphazard, and sometimes just hazardous, places. But I doubt it.

[Mr Larrington]

I for one look forward with, er, some trepidation to blind punters using e-scooters.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The self-cancelling indicators will be an improvement, as it's waaaaaay common to see people scooting along oblivious to their indicator indicating a supposed intention to do something they have no real intention to do.

[Kim]

The self-cancelling indicators will be an improvement, as it's waaaaaay common to see people scooting along oblivious to their indicator indicating a supposed intention to do something they have no real intention to do.

We can but hope.  I always regard indicators on two-wheelers with a healthy degree of suspicion.

(I must say, the VOI scooter indicators are extremely visible, if not always clear which way they're indicating from a distance.)