Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Arts and Entertainment => Topic started by: Wowbagger on 11 November, 2018, 10:15:13 pm

Title: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 November, 2018, 10:15:13 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1mR1U8h--Q

Valentina Lisitsa probably isn't a household name on these pages, but I particularly like her playing style and the fact that she puts a lot of instructive videos on Youtube.

As she says herself, the above leaves a fair bit to be desired but it's great to be able to watch her hands from above playing Beethoven's 4th, even though the piano could do with a good tune.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: fimm on 21 December, 2018, 01:57:23 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEMgNMNeBr4

More virtuoso hands from above. I quite like the fancy light effects though I can imagine that others might find them annoying. I don't know anything more about the pianist, I just followed the link from another forum, and thought some on here might enjoy it.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 23 January, 2019, 10:32:05 pm
I saw Beatrice Rana playing Beethoven's 3rd on Sunday.  Superb.   https://bachtrack.com/review-rana-petrenko-royal-liverpool-philharmonic-january-2019



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFtzC80qkTc   Prokofiev 3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqprKp8_49Q  Bach
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 08 August, 2019, 01:34:11 pm
Not virtuoso technique, but after several days of ultra-racing and wearing cycling shoes:
https://twitter.com/transconrace/status/1157626463379775489
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 August, 2019, 08:39:54 pm
I have just been listening to tonight's Prom: Martha Argerich playing Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto, under the baton of Daniel Barenboim. Wonderful performance - and it's great to think that these two septuagenarians grew up together in Buenos Aires.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: caerau on 09 September, 2019, 12:20:03 pm
Can I plug - not a tenuous claim to fame here - this guy http://philipedwardfisher.com (http://philipedwardfisher.com) is actually a friend of mine for real :-)


He's the little brother of my roommate when I was a student.  I first heard him play about six months after he started playing at the age of 10-ish.  He already blew away anyone else I'd ever heard play live - by miles.  Now a really quite successful and award winning virtuoso concert pianist.
He came to my wedding and I was too embarrassed to ask him to play at it - bit of a regret there.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 27 December, 2019, 11:30:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcEL83GNcwg&fbclid=IwAR1Mt6YXTRJD6sGeKvyQBIGDsBGlTX4Si_oiSg_ua5UL6i5b2yXzrfn0KdQ

Crikey, Penfold!
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 January, 2020, 03:52:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5k3cuQ69fc&feature=push-sd&attr_tag=ILrPEXt7T4E4HVHQ%3A6

Valentina Lisitsa again. I've muddled through that sonata a few times. I think I ought to learn it, but she plays that first movement at one hell of a lick. It's the 250th anniversary of Old Ludwig's birth this year. I've not learned nearly enough of his music.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 09 February, 2020, 07:32:35 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwoY3WOqiY4&fbclid=IwAR2uV-l8aLlpUpApihNo8HslbnLNmGrl-jqGGIjtaIthF0Cdjh0r4Srekao

Utterly marvellous tutorial by Andras Schiff about Beethoven's Pathetique sonata.

I've played this piece to one degree or another for about half a century, but that lecture drew my attention to stuff that looks bleedin' obvious but had hitherto escaped my notice. I think I need to start practising that again, with new eyes and ears.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 09 February, 2020, 08:11:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SpmA57CFmE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SpmA57CFmE)   &    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlTL4p4YxIY&frags=pl%2Cwn (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlTL4p4YxIY&frags=pl%2Cwn)


I saw Yeol Eum Son play Beethoven 5th "Emperor" with the RLPO under Andrew Manze earlier today Peter.   Absolutely wonderful.


Edit:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF1ptR6W3tY&frags=pl%2Cwn


http://northwestend.co.uk/index.php/professional-reviews/liverpool/5032-beethoven-and-bruckner-liverpool-philharmonic-hall (http://northwestend.co.uk/index.php/professional-reviews/liverpool/5032-beethoven-and-bruckner-liverpool-philharmonic-hall)


http://www.yeoleumson.com/concerts/   Upcoming concerts in the UK & elsewhere. Would BSE be good for you Peter ?    I'm quite tempted to pop down to That London for the Kings Place one, but £39.50-£69.50 plus booking fee !
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 February, 2020, 08:48:34 pm
To be honest, London is much easier to get to than BSE. We can be at Kings Cross in about 90 minutes from home and with no car to worry about. It's about 65 miles to Bury St. Edmunds with quite a bit of single carriageway driving.

*looks at diary* Oh, I'm singing in a concert on 28th March. Haydn & Mozart masses. So the London concert is out.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: hellymedic on 10 February, 2020, 09:03:00 pm
We're off to the Queen Elizabeth Hall tomorrow for Roman Rabinovitch. £10 for a wheelchair bay + escort seat...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 11 February, 2020, 09:33:35 am
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/11/virtuoso-mourns-beloved-150000-piano-smashed-by-movers (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/11/virtuoso-mourns-beloved-150000-piano-smashed-by-movers)


 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 February, 2020, 11:00:29 am
That's tragic.

When my Blüthner was delivered, I was utterly astonished that two blokes could lift such a big, heavy piano, and ours is only a six-footer. I think that makes it about 390kg. Our Bechstein upright is about 250kg. I reckon that Fazioli must have been about 500kg. That's a lot of mass. Add to that the string tension. A normal violin, when in tune, has to withstand about 90lbs of tension from its 4 strings. A concert grand has (IIRC) 213 strings and the bigger the piano, the tighter they have to be to stay in tune. That's a lot of tonnes.

I wasn't actually in the room when they turned the Blüthner to the horizontal. It was stacked vertically in the van but when it came inside it had to have the 3 legs and the pedal lyre attached.

One of the guys, Blain, was big and very muscular - not body-builder muscular but lean second-row rugby player sized.  I reckon he was probably about 40. His assistant was a little chap, I'd guess in his 20s. He looked pretty strong but after they had finished the delivery and put the Bechstein in the back of the van, I observed him doing backward stretches over our garden wall.

I thought I remembered some tragedy with a Bösendorfer some years ago and here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6541457.stm
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 February, 2020, 11:10:46 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuK90fGySqc

Angela Hewitt with her Fazioli in happier times.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Woofage on 11 February, 2020, 12:41:17 pm
I saw a performance of Ravel's Piano Concerto for the Left Hand at the w/e. I was unaware that such a piece existed but what an amazing experience it was. Jean-Efflam Bavouzet was at the piano with the Iceland Symphony Orchestra.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: T42 on 11 February, 2020, 01:08:46 pm
Add to that the string tension. A normal violin, when in tune, has to withstand about 90lbs of tension from its 4 strings. A concert grand has (IIRC) 213 strings and the bigger the piano, the tighter they have to be to stay in tune. That's a lot of tonnes.

I think it's a couple of hundred kilos in an electric guitar. Safety glasses recommended for the first time.

I once saw a Deering factory video of a chap stringing up a banjo for the first time with the help of a cordless drill. He did it in less than a minute.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 February, 2020, 01:28:35 pm
Steven Osborne playing Messaien's Vingt Regards.  I was very fortunate to see him perform this at Wigmore Hall around the time he was recording it for Hyperion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrOuFIABcDo
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 February, 2020, 01:29:53 pm
Or the inappropriately named Vincenzo Maltempo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmI_ALcEGUw

Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 February, 2020, 01:30:34 pm
I saw a performance of Ravel's Piano Concerto for the Left Hand at the w/e. I was unaware that such a piece existed but what an amazing experience it was. Jean-Efflam Bavouzet was at the piano with the Iceland Symphony Orchestra.

It was written for Wittgenstein, brother of the philosopher, who lost an arm in the first world war. Randomly, I think they were both at school with one Adolf Hitler.

Edit: (https://external-preview.redd.it/4-FRex72180Lo2DbJlsixLlChIBIrplWjGZJ6DBb3oE.jpg?auto=webp&s=dcaf49e78dfb1f455bce627ed16df5047e7eeda3)

Allegedly.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Woofage on 11 February, 2020, 02:53:31 pm
^ well, my thought was along those lines, but according to a music teacher colleague of my nephew's (who also came to the concert) the reason it was written was basically because "why not?". IOW, for the challenge.

I prefer the former explanation though.

ETA: according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_for_the_Left_Hand_(Ravel)), your info is correct.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 11 February, 2020, 03:02:36 pm
I've seen a visiting pianist play a Fazioli in Liverpool.    Checks, yes it was Boris Giltburg last year.   It must be a lot of hassle transporting a piano between venues. 


https://bachtrack.com/review-giltburg-petrenko-royal-liverpool-july-2019


https://borisgiltburg.com/videos/
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: caerau on 11 February, 2020, 05:03:50 pm
I have a couple of mates who'll do it...


They're called Stan and Ollie ;)
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 11 February, 2020, 06:27:48 pm
I believe a lot of the top pianists take their own pianos with them. I'm pretty sure that Schiff's marathons at the Proms when he played all of Bach's preludes & fugues were on his own personal Steinway D274* (274 being the length in cms).

I have read that Horowitz, who many regard as the greatest pianist of all time, used his own piano and he had the keys set very "light".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxhbAGwEYGQ

It's noticeable that he has his fingers very straight when he plays. If he were my pupil I'd soon sort that out! ;)

That's the Goldensaal in Vienna. Jan and I attended a concert there in 2018 and had seats right at the front of the balcony. The Bösendorfer showrooms are in the same building so he could well be playing one.

Wikiepedia makes no mention of his piano's keys being underweighted, but...
Quote
Horowitz's hand position was unusual in that the palm was often below the level of the key surface. He frequently played chords with straight fingers, and the little finger of his right hand was often curled up until it needed to play a note; to Harold C. Schonberg, "it was like a strike of a cobra."[1] For all the excitement of his playing, Horowitz rarely raised his hands higher than the piano's fallboard. One of his students, Byron Janis, said that he had tried to teach him that technique but it didn't work for him.[25] His body was immobile, and his face seldom reflected anything other than intense concentration.

Maybe the stuff about underweighted keys is hearsay. Marcus Roberts, the Oxford dealer I bought my piano from, has numerous videos showing that the weight necessary to move the key should be about 50g.

*Having said that, I am sure I've seen a video of Schiff extolling the virtues of a Bösendorfer. Although now a naturalised British citizen living in London, Schiff is from Hungary so Bösendorfer would probably be the top manufacturer anywhere near him.

Edit: wow - just look at that... I want one! https://www.boesendorfer.com/en/news/Andras-Schiff-plays-at-Konzerthaus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvekkZnE8BU
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: hellymedic on 12 February, 2020, 02:39:20 am
Roman Rabinovich gave a great show of Spanish and Spanish-inspired music at the South Bank this evening.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 22 February, 2020, 11:03:24 am
I have just been listening to tonight's Prom: Martha Argerich playing Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto, under the baton of Daniel Barenboim. Wonderful performance - and it's great to think that these two septuagenarians grew up together in Buenos Aires.
And here they are playing Mozart, with a piano each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iePyP2HOr8&list=PL_SsI94tBifYXKMFLOpkI_qkZ9tLMsrpB&index=7
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: fimm on 23 June, 2020, 12:38:53 pm
A different kind of virtuoso: Gerald Moore on accompanying.
Well worth an hour of your time (if your taste in music runs to Leider and the like).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7iOdRe9nk
I'm not sure why it starts in the middle...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 28 October, 2020, 01:12:00 pm
https://theartsdesk.com/classical-music/pavel-kolesnikov-wigmore-hall-review-stuff-dreams


There's a link at the bottom to a livestream of the concert.      R3 had him playing some of the Goldbergs this morning.  Lovely stuff.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 October, 2020, 05:58:31 pm
Fredrik Ullen is finally releasing his last episode of Sorabji's Transcendental Etudes on BIS records in January 2021 apparently.  A recording project that probably matches the span of Leslie Howards recording of all of Liszt's piano music although in substantially less CDs
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: hellymedic on 03 November, 2020, 07:04:53 pm
St Mary's Perivale today did not disappoint too much, given YouTube failed and Vimeo succeeded.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 09 December, 2020, 11:21:49 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY6jEH1tMAA&ab_channel=GlennGould

Andras Schiff and Bösendorfer again. I Want That Piano!

Meanwhile, at next week's piano auction in London, someone is flogging a Fazioli.

https://pianoauctions.co.uk/15th-december-2020-catalogue/lot-50-fazioli-c2003
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 29 December, 2020, 10:08:23 pm
I've been learning what I think it possibly the hardest piece of Bach I have tackled to date. I'm not trying to be pretentious by putting my rather poor efforts in here, but highlight a few of the differences between the genuine virtuoso and the run-of-the-mill grade 8 or so pianist who will never get any better.

The piece in question is the prelude number 3 from Book One of the Well Tempered Clavier. Bach placed these pieces in order of key: C major, C minor, C# major, C# minor, D major, D minor etc. up to number 24, in B minor. He wrote the first 24 (Book 1) in the early 1720s when he was at Anhalt-Cothen, and Book 2 in about 1737 when he was in Leipzig. Neither work was published until 1801, 51 years after Bach's death. No-one knows for sure exactly why he wrote them, and it certainly wasn't for a big powerful instrument like a modern piano. None of them has a range greater than 4 octaves, which implies a clavichord, and therefore domestic music with only a few, if any, listeners apart from the performer and, possibly, a teacher.

The first question has to be, in the piece in question, why did he choose C# as the key? The notes are exactly the same as for D flat major, but C# has 7 sharps in its key signature, whereas D flat has 5 flats. The result of all these sharps is that every note in the home key, white or black, is a sharp, so if he wants to change key at any point, and of course he does, you end up playing a whole sequence of double sharps. This, for the performer, means that you are playing a note written on the stave as, for example, an F of some description, but you are pressing the key you normally associate with being a G. As you can imagine, this really "does yer 'ed in" when you are first learning the notes.

My weaknesses as a pianist are several: I think my worst is inconsistency. In any piece, some passages are harder than others, and to master them you have to practice repeatedly and slowly. Gradually, as you ingrain the right notes into your hands and brain, you can speed up . This I can do, but I have a dreadfully annoying habit of not paying sufficient attention and I'm always liable to make a silly mistake through inattention. I don't know how to tackle this. It's the reason I'll never perform in public: I can't ever guarantee that I'll be able to get through a piece without some sort of serious error. Curiously, I've been far less nervous when playing for exams than I have on the few occasions I have played in public.

I've recorded myself twice, warts and all, once rather slower than the piece is meant to be played, and even in that I've made a couple of slips, and the second time, up to speed. I'll also link to Angela Hewitt, who has recorded this piece on her own beautiful Fazioli during lockdown. Angela is a top-notch international pianist and a Bach specialist.

My first take (sedate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GXsn8Zf6wA&ab_channel=PeterWalker

Second take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGO5cBvK4uU&ab_channel=PeterWalker

Angela Hewitt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_o3gMO5iqw&ab_channel=NatalieSchwamova

I would be very interested to find out how much time a great pianist like Ms. Hewitt has to spend on a piece like this to get it up to that standard. My guess is "Not a lot". I've not logged how long I've spent on it but I shouldn't think that it has been less than 2 hours on any day in about the past 10 days to a fortnight, and I've played pretty well nothing else. I'm going to tackle the fugue next, and that has precisely the same difficulty regarding the number of sharps, and is also about twice as long. It puts into perspective the enormity of the performance of Andras Schiff when he played the whole of Book 1 (about 2 hours' music) at a single sitting in the Proms in 2017. Having that much music memorised and concert-ready at once is, to me, absolutely mind-blowing.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: drgannet on 30 December, 2020, 12:24:41 am
Thank you for sharing that Wowbagger, I really enjoyed the slow version.

I am heartened that there is someone else who has to put in a lot of work to make any of the 48 sound even half decent. In my case I have only learnt to play 12 of the preludes and 2 fugues, and I doubt I will be adding much to that. What I have found through playing them and listening to recordings is how different they sound at different speeds (and who knows what is 'correct'?).

I had the privilege of listening to Adreas Schiff at the Sheldonian in Oxford in 2016 when he came and played book 1, all the way through in one go. He came back the following year and did book 2. All from memory of course, but then my piano teacher always called these the 'old testament' (with Beethoven's sonatas being the 'new testament').

I do like that Bach composed the 8th prelude and fugue to be enharmonic (E flat and D sharp).
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 30 December, 2020, 12:29:24 am
Thanks!

I sent links to these with my dear pal Enid, who was another decent pianist in our college year’s music group. She commented about my use of the sustaining pedal - it is noticeable that Angela Hewitt is very much the purist and clearly doesn’t use it in her performance. About 30 years ago I discussed this issue with concert pianist Francis Rayner. He is also a very strong chess player and at the British Championships, one evening he gave a piano recital and the B flat prelude and fugue from book 1 were amongst the pieces he played. I played that for my diploma and I asked him afterwards about his use of the pedal. His answer was very sensible, I thought. “Bach never intended for these pieces to be played on a modern piano. I’ve got a sustaining pedal and I’ll use it if I think it’s appropriate.”

As you can tell, I’m using it but I have noticed one thing: the keys of my piano are definitely perceptible heavier when the pedal isn’t depressed. This has implications for each of the “joining bars” which intercede between the main phrase, which are all broken chords. I think this prelude really benefits from the use of the pedal. I would never use it, though, for (for example) the gigue from French Suite no 5.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Ben T on 30 December, 2020, 12:31:33 am
It's interesting whether you need to play it fast(er) for it to sound good. It maybe "should" be at a higher tempo but you can still make things sound good slower. I think the tempo at which you can make it sound good is a lot slower than the tempo a concert pianist would play it at. The way to do it is to add detail, varying tone, emphasizing certain bits, etc. The hard bit is keeping it all at that tempo rather than speeding up on the bars you're confident at.
I think your playing of it is pretty good. The faster version sounds fairly mistake free to me and you have definitely capture the point of the tune. Interesting as to whether Bach did compose for piano as while it was apparently invented in his lifetime it probably was only just becoming popular.
If you think Db major is hard try Gb major! I'm trying to learn 'graceful ghost' by William Bolcom. A and B section are in Db but C section in Gb. (It's probably too hard for me really but I enjoy trying, cos when I first started it I thought only the A section was catchy, but now I think it all is. Funny how it grows on you. Nowhere near good enough for a demo as you though sorry!) I can just about play the A and B sections which are in Db but the 3rd section in Gb is just ridiculous. So hard to read. It's got  basically all the flats but C flat as well, so all Cs are in fact Bs! with tons of accidentals, double flats, and broken chords of well over an octave (eg Db to F) thrown in for good measure. I've watched Cory Halls videos on it and I agree with him that most people play it too fast not least Bolcom's own stated tempo.

For what it's worth I find moonlight sonata by Beethoven which is in C# much easier to read (and play), the hard thing with that one is not just playing it but making it sound good.

One of the things about the piano I do enjoy is purely the fact of the mental thing of muscle memory, how once you've learnt to play a certain but you can do it without thinking about it.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 30 December, 2020, 12:59:44 am
It’s not so much that D flat major is hard: it is that Bach wrote this in C sharp rather that D flat. The same keys would be depressed for either - it’s just a different way of encoding it on the page which makes it harder (in my view) to learn, because of all the double sharps that would, had he written it in D flat, become naturals, and therefore heading into more familiar territory. When Schubert wrote his G flat impromptu (6 flats), an unscrupulous publisher transposed it into G major (one sharp) so that he could sell more copies to less advanced pianists!

I seem to remember reading that Bach did meet a piano, such as it was, a d dismissed it as “only fit for rondos”. His son CPE was, reputedly, the leading keyboard player of his day, and Mozart said of him “We are the children, he is the father!” Mozart composed for a very lightweight instrument.

Apparently Beethoven wrote the Appassionata (1806) after he had been given a new piano and that very low F in the opening bars was the lowest note it could play, but he had worn it out by 1810. I think that was something like 6 octaves or a little more. He also had a Broadwood and there are lots of them still about. I don’t think anything akin to our modern piano was in use until after 1850 when Carl Bechstein, who I think had served an apprenticeship with Pleyel, in Paris, started building pianos.  Liszt was taking the world by storm then and his music and playing style demanded a very resilient instrument.

Edit: I just noticed your comment about the Moonlight sonata. That’s in G sharp minor - 4 sharps.  The prelude and fugue I am playing is in C sharp major - 7 sharps.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Ben T on 30 December, 2020, 09:04:14 am
oh c# major, sorry yes that would be hard.
The thing about pieces composed for different instruments is the key they are in may often be influenced by what was physically easier on that instrument, but even that doesn't explain the difference between C# and Db major as you say.
Yes I don't really know why anyone would use double sharps instead of naturals. Maybe it fits with transcriptions - so for example if you have the major chord of D major it's D, F#, A. But then if you transpose it up to D# major, you just sharpen them all - so it's D#, F##, A#. But why not write it as G natural, I don't know.
Doesn't explain accidentals either.
I guess if you could be bothered you could rewrite it and replace all the double sharps with naturals - it wouldn't sound any different. Tippex them out and rewrite over them - either literally or digitally (in photoshop or similar).

Talking of C#, should be doing some work  :D
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Ben T on 30 December, 2020, 09:28:24 am
Talking of C#, should be doing some work

I think at work you are meant to B#, although if you are a marksman, sure, you need to C#.

sorry it was a slightly tenuous reference to writing computer code in the C# language which is my job ...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: drgannet on 30 December, 2020, 09:48:10 am
I do like that Bach composed the 8th prelude and fugue to be enharmonic (E flat and D sharp).

Sorry, just spotted my error; that should be E flat minor and D sharp minor; 6 flats and 6 sharps - the point at which one normally switches key signatures from one to the other...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: De Sisti on 30 December, 2020, 10:28:40 am
@Wow, have you taken ABRSM (or similar) exams?
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 30 December, 2020, 10:54:21 am
@Wow, have you taken ABRSM (or similar) exams?

My last ABRSM was Grade 7 in 1971. I passed an LGSM piano teaching diploma* in 1981. In this, I was one of the inaugural performers at the Barbican before it officially opened - although my performance was in a practice room and the audience consisted of two people, both examiners!

I reckon I had a spell of about 20 years in which I hardly touched the piano, until I retired in 2017. That was when I decided to start playing again, and bought my lovely piece of nazi memorabilia 1936 Blüthner.

*The three pieces I played for this were Bach, prelude & fugue in B flat major, Beethoven Pathetique sonata (I played this from memory) and a Brahms intermezzo, which I ballsed up badly. I scraped through by 2 marks, but was the only pass from teh 4 students who took the exam from the same course as me, an evening class at Southend College. When I was in my 20s I hadn't yet developed the annoying loss-of-concentration habit which dogs my playing these days.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 30 December, 2020, 11:02:43 am
I do like that Bach composed the 8th prelude and fugue to be enharmonic (E flat and D sharp).

Sorry, just spotted my error; that should be E flat minor and D sharp minor; 6 flats and 6 sharps - the point at which one normally switches key signatures from one to the other...

Yes - I wonder why he chose to do this? I wonder whether he had a specific pupil in mind.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 09 April, 2021, 10:25:24 pm
I've been working on the C# major fugue. It really is a git, but very jaunty. It doesn't want to be too fast - well, I can't play it fast at all.

Here are some words written about why Bach wrote it in C# rather than D flat, and a guy playing it for the All of Bach series. How utterly wonderful it must be to live in a house like that, and a village like that, and to be able to pay Bach on a harpsichord like that whenever you wanted to!

https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-848/
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 02 May, 2021, 10:53:24 pm
I think I've taken my own thread off topic - nothing virtuosic about my playing!

I've re-recorded the C# major prelude for a friend's birthday - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0EUwWInSRg&ab_channel=PeterWalker . She was in my music group at college and although we lost touch for about 40 years, thanks to Facebook we are back in touch again. Her birthday is tomorrow.

I was hoping to record the fugue as well, but although I can play it reasonably when it's just me, when I've got a recording device switched on, I go to pieces. It really is a lovely piece - one of the most exhilaratingly joyful pieces of Bach it has been my pleasure to listen to and play. I'm still planning to record it, but sadly there are no short cuts here. I think I'm going to have to aim for a higher standard than I ever have before.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 06 May, 2021, 09:29:29 pm
I had an exchange of emails with our choir director about the problem of recording oneself, and making mistakes one doesn't normally make. Here's his reply:

Quote
Dear Peter,

Thanks for your email.

The issue you raise is at the very centre of performing - whether in front of an audience or a microphone etc. It is a problem with which I can truly empathise.

The issues may be connected with security of notes, technique, concentration and focus and, of course, your own confidence and nerves.

Obviously, if you have any insecurity, whether it be of the notes, the fingering or other technical matters, then that passage is going to be particularly vulnerable under pressure. I remember reading in some book on piano playing ( I cannot recall its author) that his approach involved playing through a section at the beginning of the practice and noting all the places where there were any kind of “fracture”, however slight. He would then play each of those sections 25 times without a mistake at a comfortable speed.  If my memory serves me he used an abacus to keep count. If there was a mistake he would move a bead back. You repeat the procedure each day until the passage is secure at speed and you are confident that it is secure.

I remember as a student being told that if you could play a piece 50 times without a mistake you stood a good chance of being able to emulate that in performance. I believe some American psychologists suggest 35 times!

The other big issue is concentration - particularly allowing stray thoughts to interrupt your playing. Letting the process of the recording intrude into your thoughts puts incredible pressure on you and you immediately lose focus. I have been watching the Moscow Music School piano completion for outstanding young players very recently. The players are all taught how to focus their complete attention on what they are doing. Each one spends a few moments before starting, almost in self hypnosis, focusing their thoughts. I suppose the trick is to maintain that focus throughout the programme - but they all start with an immaculate playing technique and complete security of notes.

I don’t know if any of those thoughts are of any use. It has always seemed to me if there is a passage that might go wrong, it usually would go wrong because it is a major distraction in my mind  as I get nearer and nearer to it in performance. I am no piano performer but I have always found that playing from memory increases my accuracy because I do not have the distraction of the page.

Ultimately, I think you have got it right - keep working at it.

All the very best,

Colin

It gives an insight to how much work must be done by top pianists to be able to have a decent repertoire and to play a full programme of music at the drop of a hat. I'm thinking of Andras Schiff's marathon Bach sessions at the Proms 2 or 3 years ago. Also, we have been privileged that John Lill (winner, Moscow Piano Competition 1970) is a regular visitor to Southend, and a year or two ago we attended his concert. He told us at the start of the concert that the programme printed was not what he understood he was to be playing, so he gave the audience the choice of pieces to play. I'm trying to recall what all the works were, but it was a big programme. Definitely it included Beethoven's Appassionata, and Schumann's Kinderszenen, but there was also a Haydn sonata and some Brahms, I think a set of variations & fugue based on Handel. He had all that ready, and also some alternative which he left off, but I can't remember what that was. It's not just memorising all that music, it's having it concert-ready as well.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Ben T on 07 May, 2021, 10:55:04 am
Interesting, ... I read a good tip somewhere about recording yourself, can't remember where, but basically that if you are recording yourself and you make a mistake, always carry on, rather than stop and start again with another 'take'.
That way, you are freed from the mental stress of it being a 'wasted' effort, and you are carrying on just to enjoy playing it. Also if you stop and restart, you are never going to get as much practice of the end of the piece as the start.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 08 May, 2021, 08:14:39 pm
You should carry on in any case because you are trying to create a musical "whole". Going back and correcting just tells the listener "I just made a mistake and I'm reinforcing that in your mind." You have to do in practice what you plan to do in performance.

I don't know the source, but there's a quote along the lines of an amateur asking a top concert pianist how he managed to avoid wrong notes in performance, and he replied "I never practise any!"

There's a case in point in this performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbY7AKiwmE&ab_channel=WigmoreHall

In the first movement of the Mozart, he plays a D flat when he should have played D natural (LH part, 5min 47sec in). I noticed it immediately I heard it but then I've probably played that movement more often than Eric Lu has! I learned it when I was at school, and played it in my finals when I qualified as a teacher. That was about 25 years before Lu was born!
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 10 May, 2021, 04:50:16 pm
I think I've taken my own thread off topic - nothing virtuosic about my playing!

I've re-recorded the C# major prelude for a friend's birthday - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0EUwWInSRg&ab_channel=PeterWalker . She was in my music group at college and although we lost touch for about 40 years, thanks to Facebook we are back in touch again. Her birthday is tomorrow.

I was hoping to record the fugue as well, but although I can play it reasonably when it's just me, when I've got a recording device switched on, I go to pieces. It really is a lovely piece - one of the most exhilaratingly joyful pieces of Bach it has been my pleasure to listen to and play. I'm still planning to record it, but sadly there are no short cuts here. I think I'm going to have to aim for a higher standard than I ever have before.

I've been working really hard at this and I hope to start trying to record it again later in the week.

I like to record stuff like this for friends. I'd really like to record something for Jan, but since when I'm repeatedly practising the same piece for hours on end, she's doing her best to get away from it. It's a good job we've got a big house...

Edit: I realised that I'm getting faster throughout the piece, and I couldn't work out where. I just realised that every time I got to the last (4th) page, I was going a fair bit quicker than I was when I started, so I played against a metronome. I found the bit I was accelerating in: it was probably the trickiest section in p3, which took me a long time to master at a snails's pace. Then. trying to play against the metronome, I went to pieces in that section again!

I just played again without the metronome, but consciously trying to keep the speed down in the tricky bit. And - I played it from start to finish without any mistakes - the first time I've done this. If I can do that a few more times tomorrow, I'll try to record it again.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 16 May, 2021, 12:22:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FfzIAFMe5Q&ab_channel=PeterWalkerPeterWalker

Well, that's it. I've linked it to facebook with the following comment:

Quote
Just over a week ago, it was my good friend Ruth Mercer's birthday. I like to try to record pieces of music for such occasions and I really wanted to record the C# major prelude and fugue from Book 1 of Bach's 48 Preludes and Fugues. I recorded the prelude in time, but I didn't have the fugue ready so I've been working at it and this is my best effort.
Bach's "48" tend to have a reputation as being a bit dry and unapproachable, but they are unquestionably one of the great masterpieces of the musical repertoire. It really takes a lot of effort for a mediocre pianist like me to play something like this, but I hope it's worth it. It leaves me in awe of such great pianists as Andras Schiff or Angela Hewitt, that they seem to be able to rattle pieces like this off with little apparent effort or stress (of course, we don't see behind the scenes!)
I actually think this fugue is really joyful - I almost imagine that if Winnie-the-Pooh had written a Bach fugue, this would be it (tra-tiddle-iddle-rom-pom-pom-tiddle-rom-pom-rom-pom-pom) and you can imagine him humming through pale fawn fluff on a warm, sunny morning as though twice 19 didn't matter a bit.
Anyway Ruth, I hope you like it! I've really enjoyed working on it.
Oh, a mention for my wife Janet who has behaved with great forbearance as I've played this piece repeatedly, for days on end, for the best part of a month. She has failed to injure or murder me, and for that I'm eternally grateful.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Peter on 16 May, 2021, 10:47:02 am
A noble effort, Wow!

For a glimpse of a more financially-rewarding (and actually just as difficult) virtuoso piano technique - and all done without actually looking at the instrument - try this!  It's only a couple of minutes, so y'all watch it right through!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy1tLpWc1R4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy1tLpWc1R4)

Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 16 May, 2021, 12:10:49 pm
A noble effort, Wow!

Agreed!

As my wife is a piano teacher I showed her your video and she was suitably impressed.

Thanks, both! I could have got Dez to stitch together a slicker rendition by editing out my slips, but actually being able to play the piece from start to finish without a lapse of concentration is really quite important, I feel. I'm going to keep practising it as I think it benefits from being rather quicker than I played it. Also, once I've got my fingers in the right place, playing it faster means that there's less chance of losing concentration.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: hellymedic on 16 May, 2021, 10:31:55 pm
I watched the C# Prelude & Fugue played from Perivale last Tuesday, which spoilt me somewhat!

D is also struggling with this piece!

D is practising it right now and notes Henry is 'tuned' to C# as the cleaner works upstairs...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 19 May, 2021, 08:48:41 am
I have now started to memorise the fugue. Not there yet, but the bits I can play from memory are more secure.

My next venture will be the A minor fugue from Book 1. This had the reputation of being the hardest of all of Book 1. There are 4 lines of music which need to be knitted together (the C# is in 3 voices) and it really demands a reasonable speed.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Ben T on 19 May, 2021, 09:10:56 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FfzIAFMe5Q&ab_channel=PeterWalkerPeterWalker


The legato seems nice and clean, would I be right in thinking you're not using much pedal?
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 21 May, 2021, 12:36:36 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FfzIAFMe5Q&ab_channel=PeterWalkerPeterWalker


The legato seems nice and clean, would I be right in thinking you're not using much pedal?

I don't think I used any for the fugue. I did for the prelude, but for a lot of it, each bar is just a broken chord so it works well. I just didn't feel the need for pedal in the fugue. I like the way Angela Hewitt plays the prelude without pedalling, but since her technique is so wonderful she can achieve a machine-gun like quality with her notes, and a clarity that I can merely dream of.

Whether or not you pedal when playing Bach is always a contentious point. Some say he didn't have access to a sustaining pedal so we shouldn't use one. The counter-argument is that he didn't have access to a modern (ie after 1850) piano either so if we are being consistent, we shouldn't use that. There is a recording of Andras Schiff stating that he never uses the sustaining pedal when playing Bach. I think it's from 2014. I mentioned this on a Facebook piano technique book, but was then told by a number of people that in more recent videos of him playing, he clearly was. (I said he had Bach-pedalled).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbJI-tP6tNA&ab_channel=ECMRecords
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Peter on 21 May, 2021, 01:14:15 am
Ha!  I've sort of been upstaged by Andras's clever remark, but I was going to turn things round by saying that playing Bach while pedalling is liable to lead to a disaster - but I won't bother, now!  Thanks for the link, Wow.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 24 May, 2021, 10:37:47 pm
Angela Hewitt at the Wigmore Hall. I see she's on a Fazioli. Hers, infamously, was wrecked by the shifters a year or two ago when they dropped it. I read that she was practising on a 220cm instrument as a stopgap. That one looks like the full 9 yards feet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h90bwNaSG8&ab_channel=WigmoreHall

Edit: it's her new "lover".

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/04/celebrated-musician-speaks-of-finding-new-best-friend-to-replace-smashed-piano
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: road-runner on 05 June, 2021, 01:51:53 pm
Wow, I know you are keen on Andras Schiff so when I saw this New York Times article I naturally thought of you.

A Pianist Comes Around on Period Instruments (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/arts/music/piano-brahms-andras-schiff.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Music)
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: hellymedic on 05 June, 2021, 06:48:08 pm
Whereas I was reading this fortnight-old interview in the Jewish Chronicle last night...
https://www.thejc.com/culture/music/after-the-silence-sir-andras-schiff-on-music-post-pandemic-1.516837 (https://www.thejc.com/culture/music/after-the-silence-sir-andras-schiff-on-music-post-pandemic-1.516837)
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 05 June, 2021, 10:05:56 pm
That's fascinating about him playing on period instruments. 1859 is very early for a Blüthner - the company was founded in 1853. Mine is a Blüthner from 1935 - at least, that's what the original sales card at the Blüthner showrooms in London has to say. But that card describes a much smaller piano than mine. I suspect that at some point it was restored and the serial numbers printed on the soundboard became confused. I doubt very much that they would have written out an incorrect receipt to a customer.

When I bought mine, I was originally interested in an 1898 instrument at Roberts Pianos in Oxford - that may well have been identical to Debussy's Blüthner because he was only 36 when it was built. It was in a gorgeous rosewood with black, deep red and cream stripes in the grain and I really loved its appearance. But it was the Blüthner patent action, and I found that it was too weak in the second and third octaves above middle C. Blüthner introduced an "aliquot" stringing system, in which the top third of the piano had a 4th string tuned to each note that wasn't struck by the hammer but vibrated in sympathy. I'm not convinced that it makes a lot of difference, but even modern Blüthners have an extra string. The design has changed slightly though. I did play some Debussy on that piano when we tried it in the showroom, and I have never made the 1st Arabesque sing as much as I did that day. The bass strings had an absolutely exquisite tone. But it was frustrating for playing Beethoven because of the weakness of the sound in the upper registers and after about 2 hours playing it I decided, with great sadness, that that piano wasn't for me.

The piano I did buy was still being French polished when we got there and was held up on scaffolding poles as the legs were with the polisher. They put the keyboard back in and I played it and fell in love. It's a gorgeous piano. It's in mahogany and doesn't have the wide range of colours in the wood that the older one did but it is still very attractive. Blüthner abandoned their "patent" action in the mid-1920s and moved over to the same type of action that Bechstein and Steinway were using and mine has the more modern action.

Blüthners are manufactured in Leipzig and Marcus Robert, who sold me mine, reckons that the Communist-era pianos are not so good as the pre-war ones. He says that they are getting much better again now though. I tried out a reasonably modern one - 1980s I think - at an auction at the Conway Hall, and I thought it sounded fine. I didn't like the finish though - the wood had a really thick layer of polyurethane or whatever - so thick that it looked as though it was covered in glass. I have also played new Blüthners at the Baker Street showrooms - two 9' concert grands and a really tall upright. Apparently that model of upright is the tallest piano currently being manufactured by anyone. It had a massive sound, but had the heaviest action of any piano I have ever played. No doubt that could have been adjusted.

I read somewhere that in the 1930s, if Jews who were Blüthner owners decided to emigrate to escape the nazis, the Blüthner company paid for the export of their piano. I don't know how often this happened, but the story I read was that the conductor of the Leipzig and Berlin Radio Orchestra turned up in San Francisco and about 6 months later, to his surprise, so did his Blüthner. IIRC I read this on the blog of a US piano teacher named Mark Polishook, who was working in Leicester. I've looked at the Wiki entries for the conductors of both orchestras but can't find anyone whose biography suggests that it might have been them. I understand that during WW2 the nazis commandeered the Leipzig factory and turned it into a place that manufactured packing cases for munitions.

I must stop now. I have an urge to play Debussy's first arabesque...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Peter on 06 June, 2021, 10:11:39 am
It'll pass...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 18 June, 2021, 12:57:20 pm
https://twitter.com/IsataKm/status/1405785076185669641?s=20     A little taster from Isata.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 22 June, 2021, 11:52:59 pm
https://www.rcm.ac.uk/events/details/?id=2220341

An event tomorrow at 7pm - Andras Schiff giving a masterclass teaching the last three Beethoven sonatas, op 109, 110, 111.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 23 June, 2021, 07:15:52 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KRpwgBlrq0&ab_channel=RoyalCollegeofMusic

Live stream.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 June, 2021, 08:58:52 pm
I was lucky enough to see Marc-Andre Hamelin perform Op109 and Op111 at the Anvil in Basingstoke.  What struck me was that the playing was so effortless that I could focus completely on the music. 

But the performance that sticks in my mind more than any other, was watching Steven Osborne performing Messaien's Vingt Regards at Wigmore Hall, around the time he was completing his acclaimed recording of the piece for Hyperion. 
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 23 June, 2021, 10:12:12 pm
I was lucky enough to see Marc-Andre Hamelin perform Op109 and Op111 at the Anvil in Basingstoke.  What struck me was that the playing was so effortless that I could focus completely on the music. 

But the performance that sticks in my mind more than any other, was watching Steven Osborne performing Messaien's Vingt Regards at Wigmore Hall, around the time he was completing his acclaimed recording of the piece for Hyperion.


I shall be listening to Mr Osborne tomorrow,   https://www.liverpoolphil.com/whats-on/classical-music/royal-liverpool-philharmonic-orchestra/3948
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 23 June, 2021, 11:10:27 pm
I was blown away by a Schiff assertion about the slow movement of the 31st Beethoven sonata. He reckoned that Beethoven was quoting the Bach St. John Passion "Es ist vollbracht" - Christ's last words - "It is finished" and it was a reference to Beethoven's state of health and that he knew he was dying. He still hung around for another 5 years after writing that sonata. There's no question - the two passages are very similar.

But musical history maintains that none of Bach's choral works were performed after he died until Mendelssohn resurrected them with a performance of the St. Matthew Passion in 1829 - 2 years after Beethoven died.

If Schiff is right, then Beethoven must have had at least a sight of the score at some point.

Fascinating stuff.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 25 June, 2021, 09:36:21 pm
This started automatically on my Youtube feed.

I instantly recognised the piano as a Bösendorfer Imperial (97 keys instead of the usual 88 - I played one in Vienna a few years ago) and of course Andras Schiff is the conductor/pianist!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XVgMXKdO8U&ab_channel=SonorumConcentusBeethoven
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 26 June, 2021, 12:04:17 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJVVCqgnimQ&ab_channel=RT%C3%89News

Amazing - Debussy was still alive when she was born.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 23 February, 2022, 11:54:35 pm
I was blown away by a Schiff assertion about the slow movement of the 31st Beethoven sonata. He reckoned that Beethoven was quoting the Bach St. John Passion "Es ist vollbracht" - Christ's last words - "It is finished" and it was a reference to Beethoven's state of health and that he knew he was dying. He still hung around for another 5 years after writing that sonata. There's no question - the two passages are very similar.

But musical history maintains that none of Bach's choral works were performed after he died until Mendelssohn resurrected them with a performance of the St. Matthew Passion in 1829 - 2 years after Beethoven died.

If Schiff is right, then Beethoven must have had at least a sight of the score at some point.

Fascinating stuff.

I asked our mus dir from the choir about this. The answer was an equivocal "Baron van Swieten".

Baron van Swieten was a librarian of some note as well as a keen amateur musician - apparently he introduced an early card system for cataloguing books, and he had a significant collection of Bach's original, unpublished, scores. It is well-known that Mozart visited him regularly and they played a lot of Bach and Handel. It's quite possible that van Swieten had some of Bach's choral scores, including the St. John Passion. Beethoven may well have seen the score - and they might well have had enough musicians there for a run through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_van_Swieten#Sharing_works_by_Bach_and_Handel
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 24 February, 2022, 05:51:44 pm
Listening to Liszt Transcendental Studies Op139. 

I remember at the height of my time trialling prowess, when I once made the top 10 of an open TT and could post a decent distance in a 24Hr TT.  A certain R Prebble was riding out with our club, and could (even though he was no longer seriously competing) drop me on the flat or any other terrain except waiting for a South West Train.  I'm fairly sure that Mr Prebble would have be dropped by Mark Cavendish up any hill of their choosing.  Etc.  Etc.

Music like this is (a) there to remind me that however much I study and develop my skills, there will be many orders of magnitude of difficult above me that others can play with a fraction of the effort and (b) to sound utterly amazing as well.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 26 April, 2022, 08:41:50 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di2k06uNU1U&ab_channel=WarnerClassics

Decidedly inauthentic, but great fun nonetheless.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 03 September, 2022, 01:09:28 pm
https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/the-salzburg-recital-kissin-12749


A new CD from Evgeny Kissin.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 05 October, 2022, 09:46:32 am
https://twitter.com/DBarenboim/status/1577358192711008256 (https://twitter.com/DBarenboim/status/1577358192711008256)


"It is with a combination of pride and sadness that I announce today that I am taking a step back from some of my performing activities, especially conducting engagements, for the coming months."


"A serious neurological condition" sound ominous.     I've a ticket to see him play with the RLPO in January.


Edit: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/05/daniel-barenboim-steps-back-from-performing-for-health-reasons
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 October, 2022, 01:17:30 pm
As this thread popped up, here is a pianist to consider, with an inappropriate name - Vincenzo Maltempo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VW2ms-jpCY  (Alkan's 2hr Opus 39 played live)

and him playing the last of Lyapunov's transcendental studies, after F. Liszt, with this one dedicated to the great man himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkANiGiUVU



Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 05 October, 2022, 07:25:30 pm
I saw him in action at the Edinburgh Festival almost 20 years ago. He was conducting the East-West Divan Orchestra and the programme was changed at the last minute and they played Beethoven's 5th instead of a Tchaikovsky symphony.

It's never a mistake to spend an hour or so watching this wonderful video from over 50 years ago of 5 amazing young musicians in their prime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZdXoER96is&ab_channel=JauTuChannel
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 05 October, 2022, 07:40:14 pm

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/104804-000-A/west-eastern-divan-orchestra-with-daniel-barenboim/


I listened to this earlier. 
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: pcolbeck on 06 October, 2022, 11:06:42 am
Sad to hear this. Tragic really given he has been through this kind of thing once already with his wife.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 07 October, 2022, 04:54:03 pm
I have just learned that Lars Vogt has died of cancer, aged 51. He was a tremendous pianist, taking second place at the Leeds International Piano Competition in 1990. About 4 years ago, Jan, her sister and I attended a concert at the Bridgewater Hall in which he played Beethoven’s 4th concerto. He had a very idiosyncratic style of playing, and at times seemed to be keeping time with his left foot and I was sure I could hear his heel making contact with the floor on occasions. During tutti passages, he turned and glared at the orchestra. I also noticed part way through that he had an iPad inside the piano, so no doubt some of his left foot activity was operating a Bluetooth page turner. There is an interview with him taken not long before he died, which I am about to watch.

https://youtu.be/zMV5gCmnMlk
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andyoxon on 07 October, 2022, 06:08:20 pm
BBC Young Musician: Keyboard category finals. So good. 

Category Final highlights.    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001cryd 

(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 December, 2022, 10:25:34 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7NF6r4ywKE&ab_channel=HKUMUSE%E6%B8%AF%E5%A4%A7%E7%B9%86%E6%80%9D%E6%A8%82%E5%AD%A3

Like Lars Vogt, Angela Hewitt has an iPad in the piano.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 19 December, 2022, 05:28:10 pm

An article by Barenboim on his early life.   Sadly his planned January performance with the RLPO has just been cancelled. 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/arts-and-books/daniel-barenboim-early-lifefrom-concertos-to-cigars


In case you can't get past the paywall. https://archive.ph/uTrUx
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: hellymedic on 19 December, 2022, 08:11:34 pm
D saw Barenboim in action in Berlin, in 2018, I think.
Anne-Sophie Mutter was on the violin...
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 19 December, 2022, 10:01:52 pm
Thanks for that, Andrew! I doubt that it was false modesty that makes him say that Martha Argerich is/was a better pianist than he is. And what a way to start smoking!

Here's a video of the two of them playing a Mozart sonata for two pianos. Being a page turner for one or other of these giants is quite a daunting prospect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iePyP2HOr8&ab_channel=sigma1024

Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 08 January, 2023, 12:03:24 pm
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/article/daniel-barenboim-to-step-down-from-the-staatsoper-berlin
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 January, 2023, 09:02:07 pm
Have tickets to see David Grielshammer play at Wigmore Hall Friday week.  He pairs pieces from across the classic spectrum, because they were related in a dream.  interested to see how he and I cope with Bach and Ligeti on the same programme as well as a host of other apparent conflicts.

Programme is Lully bookended by Janacek,  George Crumb bookended by Beethoven, Bach surrounded by Ligeti, CPE Bach in between Satie, etc
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 15 January, 2023, 09:37:58 pm
Last night we were supposed to have Daniel Barenboim playing in Liverpool.  Sadly he had to cancel due to his current ill health.


The replacement was Víkingur Ólafsson ,  I don't think we were short changed.  Utterly breathtaking.



Schumann as the main piece & this as the encore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g4KUuCZsJA


https://www.artscityliverpool.com/single-post/review-domingo-hindoyan-and-v%C3%ADkingur-ólafsson-at-philharmonic-hall-1-2


https://twitter.com/gram63/status/1614395328727334914


https://twitter.com/BrendanEWK/status/1614554563973087233



Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 15 January, 2023, 10:26:04 pm
Thanks, Andrew. I've just ordered the sheet music for the Organ Sonata no 4 Andante. Not heard it before and it doesn't sound impossibly difficult.

There was something about the quality of the sound in that video which I thought was especially striking: whether it was down to the voicing of the piano, the acoustics of the hall, or some jiggery-pokery in the recording/editing studio, I think the piano sounded more bell-like than any I've heard.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: jsabine on 15 January, 2023, 11:13:54 pm
A friend gave me about three hours notice of a spare ticket, so I spent this afternoon at the Barbican (https://www.barbican.org.uk/whats-on/2023/event/bbc-symphony-orchestrakarabits-anna-fedorova) - BBC Symphony, Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no 3, and Anna Federova (then followed by a Ukrainian symphony).

Rather good. On the Third Programme on Tuesday, and on BBC Sounds for a month.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 15 January, 2023, 11:18:37 pm
Thanks, Andrew. I've just ordered the sheet music for the Organ Sonata no 4 Andante. Not heard it before and it doesn't sound impossibly difficult.

There was something about the quality of the sound in that video which I thought was especially striking: whether it was down to the voicing of the piano, the acoustics of the hall, or some jiggery-pokery in the recording/editing studio, I think the piano sounded more bell-like than any I've heard.

Hmm. the only copy I could find for piano was a transcript published by a company I'd never heard of, and I downloaded it to the iPad. It's harder than it sounds ;) and not helped that the editing has been a bit sloppy and it's not entirely clear which notes should be played exactly at the same time as others.

Photocopies of the original area available, in Bach's own had, but of course they are over 3 staves, RH, LH and pedals.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Legs on 28 January, 2023, 09:22:25 am
Mind.  Blown.
 https://youtu.be/_jxegEu0ZWI (https://youtu.be/_jxegEu0ZWI)
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 01 February, 2023, 09:03:10 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/feb/01/i-was-swallowing-the-piano-whole-stephen-hough-on-life-as-a-prodigy-and-playing-for-jimmy-savile

Interesting extract from Stephen Hough's autobiography.

I was fortunate enough to see Stephen Hough play when he was (I think) about 12 years old. I was pres. of the Mus. Soc. at Poulton college, near Blackpool, and with the help of a Lancs Art Council (or some such body) grant organised a charabanc trip for fellow students to the Free Trade Hall where a concert featuring performances from lots of youngsters, mostly from Chethams or the Royal Northern College of Music, took place. I especially recall the two pianists. One was Francis Rayner, who played Beethoven's 3rd concerto, first movement. He was also a very strong chess player and I met him many years later when he was taking part in the British Championships in Eastbourne and gave a piano recital one evening. We discussed the finer points of Bach's prelude & fugue in B flat from Book 1, and whether one should use a pedal when playing Bach. He performed this piece at the concert, and it was the prelude and fugue I had chosen to play for my piano teaching diploma in 1981.

I had completely forgotten that Stephen Hough was the other pianist - he played a Mendelssohn concerto - until a couple of years ago when Jan and I were sorting out some boxes of historical tat. We found her old Creative Studies folder and in it was the programme for the concert which was, interestingly, on Valentine's Day, although I don't think we were a couple at that point. Stephen Hough and Francis Rayner were both named in the programme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvq8FM5rKoo&ab_channel=ClassicalArchivist is worth a look.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 03 February, 2023, 05:15:05 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/feb/03/the-piano-channel-4-bake-off-for-pianos-the-spine-tingling-talent-show-that-makes-people-weep-with-joy

That could be worth a watch.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 05 February, 2023, 10:25:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8QyeIwdr4U&ab_channel=SW

Georg Solti, Daniel Barenboim, & Andras Schiff all playing together. Can't get more stellar than that.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 19 March, 2023, 09:59:15 pm
Rubinstein Piano Competition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckMjJbsUc4Q&ab_channel=ArthurRubinstein

I've just had it drawn to my attention. Some scintillating playing.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 27 April, 2023, 10:22:24 am
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/apr/25/angela-hewitt-pianist-memory-muscle

Angela Hewitt on memory.

I ought to try to get to one of her concerts. She's inspirational.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 19 June, 2023, 12:45:12 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEGnSfY8GbE&ab_channel=88KeystoCure

Pretty bloody impressive: 8 and 9 years olds.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 25 July, 2023, 09:19:41 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypgfU_6nov8&ab_channel=LondonMozartPlayers

Perplexed by that: who is in charge of the performance? The pianist, Martin James Bartlett, gives no indication whatever that he is conducting from the keyboard, there is no sign of a conductor on the platform, and there's no mention of a conductor in the notes beneath.

I've seen MJ Bartlett, when he was obviously one of the top piano students at the Royal College of Music, in a master class with Andras Schiff and I though AS gave him a pretty hard time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzTdpTHIgkc&ab_channel=RoyalCollegeofMusic refers

Edit: apparently when he was 17, MJ Bartlett won the BBC Young Musician of the Year award. That had passed me by. I've found another performance of this concerto at the RCM with MJB and Bernard Haitink.
Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: andrewc on 02 November, 2023, 12:17:30 am
Tonight I had the pleasure of listening to the complete Goldberg Variations played live by Víkingur Ólafsson.  Breathtaking,  just a shame about the person who audibly opened a drinks can and the person at the end who applauded slightly too soon.   :facepalm:   


He must like the RLPO audience, he's coming back next year.  :thumbsup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GSZkWd2vYg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GikMTOtI5DA


https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9506827--bach-goldberg-variations


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/oct/06/vikingur-olafsson-pianist-on-bach-goldberg-variations



Title: Re: Virtuoso piano technique
Post by: Wowbagger on 12 January, 2024, 07:27:00 am
I have just learned that thespian Ian McKellen owns a Fazioli. I don’t know what his technique is like, but Angela Hewitt visited his house and hers is pretty good.