Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 145205 times)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Tour de France 2012
« Reply #575 on: 14 July, 2012, 11:28:04 pm »
What makes you think he won't?

I mean, I'm only going by the fact that he has said himself in interviews that he's planning to stay for the whole race. If you have any better information, please share it with us.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #576 on: 14 July, 2012, 11:28:26 pm »
but it is a shame for cav to be a rainbow jersey wearing domestique                                                       

Seems to me that he's pitching in to help the team.
Commendable IMO.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Tour de France 2012
« Reply #577 on: 14 July, 2012, 11:33:05 pm »
Cav has always been first to express his gratitude to his team-mates for the work they do on his behalf. This is a practical way of showing it. And of showing what a true superstar, sportsman and gentleman he really is.

d.


"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Jakob

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #578 on: 15 July, 2012, 06:05:11 am »

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #579 on: 15 July, 2012, 08:19:43 am »
Cav has always been first to express his gratitude to his team-mates for the work they do on his behalf.

Unfortunately it wasn't this team though was it ?  Back in the days of HTC they'd have paced him back after yesterday's climb and he'd have won the stage.

Even on those occasions when Sky commit to working for him they generally make a mess of it, probably because they do it so infrequently.

I hope he leaves for a team that are prepared to properly support him some time very soon.
Aero but not dynamic

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #580 on: 15 July, 2012, 08:31:39 am »
is this payback to wiggins for the world champ support? Who will be team leader for the olympics?

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #581 on: 15 July, 2012, 08:48:50 am »
Posted by: citoyen  Yesterday at 10:04:16 PM
Anyway, you may have noticed that Cav didn't even contest the intermediate sprint yesterday. He's not chasing scraps. There are two reasons Cav is still in this Tour: 1. Keeping in race shape for the Olympics. 2. The opportunity to make it 4 out of 4 on the Champs-Elysées. You can guarantee that Sky will give him the full lead-out in Paris and looking at the form book, I'm betting on him to take it. Greipel is looking very good but he won't beat Cav if he really wants it.

I couldn't agree more, provided there is no major upset in the next seven days I'm looking forward to seeing the whole of Team Sky on the front of the peleton for the last two circuits of the Champs Elysee and giving Cav the perfect lead out to make it 4 out of 4.   For the next seven days I'm keeping everything crossed.
 

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #582 on: 15 July, 2012, 09:06:20 am »
Posted by: citoyen: Yesterday at 11:33:05 PM
Cav has always been first to express his gratitude to his team-mates for the work they do on his behalf. This is a practical way of showing it. And of showing what a true superstar, sportsman and gentleman he really is.

+1
Plus he seems determined to "honour" the World Championship jersey.

I cannot understand the adverse comments about yesterdays stage.   Cav was off the back at the start of the hill, are you suggesting that they push him up the hill?   There was still 20+kilometers to the end of the stage, with a cross/ headwind  and several strong teams (eg BMC, Lotto) prepared to try and put Wiggins into difficulties.   However many riders Sky might have pulled back to help Cav they would have had to ride themselves into the ground to bring him back to the leading group.   On the other hand they had Edward B in the group who very nearly won the stage.   
.



TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #583 on: 15 July, 2012, 09:22:20 am »
Adverse comments? Not really. Just disappointment that a stage that was hyped as ideal for Cav didn't work out that way.  It was still a fascinating stage.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #584 on: 15 July, 2012, 09:29:34 am »
Adverse comments? Not really. Just disappointment that a stage that was hyped as ideal for Cav didn't work out that way.  It was still a fascinating stage.
Except that the hype was misinformed. That was a killer hill.

Sky cannot jeopardise the MJ. As said above, pulling Cav back to the front would probably have been disastrous.
Rust never sleeps

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #585 on: 15 July, 2012, 09:45:13 am »
To be honest Sky had their No2 sprinter in the group, so for the team it probably made more sense to try and set up EBH for the stage. Cav can't get green, Wiggo already has yellow so other than entertaining the Brits I think it makes sense to treat the ride the way they did.

Cav has been blown out of the back on steep hills during 'flat' stages before, even with an entire HTC team to drag him back so there's no guarantee that sky could have put him in position anyway.

I'm just glad that we are disappointed that British riders aren't winning everything. When i started watching the tour if a Brit won a stage it was amazing :)
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

plum

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #586 on: 15 July, 2012, 10:11:23 am »
What makes you think he won't?
Well it was a question not a claim, but based on the fact that there's no shortage of speculation out there. Just a few days before the Tour started Geraint Thomas said

 "It's a big ask finishing two Grand Tours, especially for Cav, who doesn't find climbing that easy and has some hard days out there."

And he's certainly having a hard time out there this tour. I was just wondering is all.

DaveJ

  • Happy days
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #587 on: 15 July, 2012, 10:34:19 am »
I hope the Sky lead out is more organised in Paris than it has been so far.  Both times so far this tour that they have attempted to lead a sprinter out, they have run out of steam too early.

Wiggo did a great job bringing those two back in the last km, but when he pulled over with a couple of hundred metres still to go, it left EBH on his own with Greipel on his wheel.

Dave

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #588 on: 15 July, 2012, 11:18:41 am »

 the majority of the British public, even the ones who follow cycling, don't really understand why stage wins don't equate to overall victory. <snip>
This is why Chris Hoy is so popular - it's much easier (and less time consuming)* to follow track racing (silly events like the points race notwithstanding).

d.

*and less interesting.

+1 to all that. I've been following the TdF on TV since 1984 and I still sometimes have to have things explained.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #589 on: 15 July, 2012, 11:42:15 am »
I think Cav's reasons for joining Sky are more about the future than just this year's Tour. 2012 was always going to be a bit different for him - Sky had/has a realistic chance of winning in Wiggins (which Cav was/is happy to be part of) and then you've got the Olympics which he obviously wants a crack at.

It's almost as if he had already written off his chances of doing much at this year's Tour - hence his completion of the Giro and his weight loss in preparation for the Olympics.

It seems to me (from what he's said in interviews, on Twatter etc..) that he wants to expand his Palmarès and he sees Sky as the best team to help him do that. He's already won a shit load of Tour stages (and I believe L'Équipe put him at No 1 of all time Tour sprinters recently) and he wants more. He wants classics, he wants other stage races. He's proved what he can do at the Tour and with just a couple more wins (which he could well get before this Tour is over) he will have won more stages than any other sprinter. Ever.

He wants more than that. Le Tour may be the biggest race in road cycling, but it's not the be all and end all. Look at the criticism Armstrong got for never bothering with anything else other than the Tour. Cav doesn't want that.

I reckon once this season is over and we move into 2013, Cav will be able to work on his goals as the Olympics and the bizarre situation that a Briton may actually win the Tour will be done and dusted.

I reckon he's perfectly happy where he is and knew right from the start that he could be carrying bottles for the team on certain stages. Even if it is most odd for the Rainbow Jersey to be doing so!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #590 on: 15 July, 2012, 11:49:28 am »
I still think he fancies a crack at Merckx's record though. Another 14 stage wind to go. How man years does he have left to get those ? Two a year means it would take another seven. I think he needs three a year at least.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #591 on: 15 July, 2012, 12:23:58 pm »
A theory: Cav/Sky are playing mind games. Shoot me down.
Cav is soft pedalling to give the impression that he is shot. He is not needed for Wiggos overall. He has wone his contractual stage. @London 2012 he lets leash. I do love a conspiracy  :P
Working my way up to inferior.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #592 on: 15 July, 2012, 01:34:59 pm »
On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:
Curiously, of all the teams, that's the kit I like best.

Dibdib

  • Fat'n'slow
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #593 on: 15 July, 2012, 01:51:18 pm »
On the subject of kit, the one with the brown shorts and blue-and-white top is just  :sick:
Curiously, of all the teams, that's the kit I like best.

Same here, it's got a bit of retro charm to it I think. Similarly, the Colnago kit is rather nice IMO too.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #594 on: 15 July, 2012, 01:56:33 pm »
There really is no pleasing some people is there?

The British have a rider in yellow, and one in 2nd spot. There's an increasing chance every day that Wiggins can win the Tour. Winning the Tour was the number 1 Sky objective this year, with the Olympics.

So why are there whinges about Cav not getting leadouts etc? Let's be clear here, there is no leadout team here (apart from Bernie as a "minder"). Cav himself has said that it's about getting the yellow jersey to Paris - and has stated that this is the pinnacle of cycling. As far as the paymasters are concerned a yellow jersey in Paris is worth more than a green jersey. Look at the column inches so far for Wiggins.

When his old team closed, and the leadout squad inevitably became split up, only one or two teams could afford Cav. Main players were BMC and Sky. BMC are no more (probably less) likely to give him a train for the TdF. Who else? Lotto - already had Greipel. Green Edge - got Australian sprinters. Rabobank - no train, and sprints not high on agenda. The only teams with leadout trains at the Tour are Lotto, and Green Edge. Neither could pay the £2m anyway to get Cav I would guess.

Cav has had a good season, and has won a stage race as well as stage wins. He's riding the Tour mainly for conditioning I guess, and because he's in the Rainbow Jersey, and he has a strong sense of responsibility to show it to the public and to respect the sport, and the Tour (unlike some other riders in the past). Hopefully, he'll be in the mix for the Olympics, although it's the biggest lottery of a race always. Wiggins and Froome can do leadouts, but not do that and defend a jersey! Anyway, many of the traditional leadout heavies might not be there after Box Hill. BC and Sky are incredible in their analysis and planning, and know just who will be the best to be there.

I still wouldn't dismiss any idea of Wiggins giving Cav the ultimate leadout in London though!

Thor

  • Super-sonnicus idioticus
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #595 on: 15 July, 2012, 04:53:32 pm »
Tacksxing stage for some riders today. But Luis Leon Sanchez nailed it.  IGMC
It was a day like any other in Ireland, only it wasn't raining

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #596 on: 15 July, 2012, 04:58:16 pm »
Giropaul +1

Sky has been doing brilliantly.  So far they've won four stages, which is more than France has so far this Tour.  They've had people in yellow and polka dot, and are still in yellow with a very good chance of winning the GC.  The team was winning the team classification for the first seven days.  No one can complain about all that.

At the end of the day, their main interest is keeping Wiggins in yellow, if they can get Cav to a sprint finish, without risking yellow, they will, but don't hold your breath, because yellow is going to be their main interest.  Cav will probably have to work harder than he usually does, to make sure he's in the correct place, and possibly with a less than optimal lead out team (if at all).  Cav is capable of doing that on the right course, but sometimes things won't work out perfectly, especially on stages like yesterday, when that gert big hill was always likely to scupper Cav's chances, he's not a climber.


Anyway, back to today.  The small group of leaders, including Peter Sagan were always going to win the stage, they got so far out in front, there was no chance that the Peleton was going to catch them up, so it was a good win for Sanchez.

The tacks on the road was a bit of a disaster.  It would have been interesting to see how the leaders of the peloton managed to get down from that horrendous climb up the Mur de Péguère, which looked fairly horrible, the speed that many of the cyclists appeared to be doing.

They're reporting something like 30 visitations occurring around the top of the climb, which makes you think that someone should have seen who did it, because the number of people around the climb, as ever, was huge.

Someone also crashed with a broken collar bone, which may have been caused by the tacks, so if the French police find anyone, they're a bit stuffed.  On the flip side, at least that's all that happened.  A puncture at the 60-70mph that you can apparently achieve on that downhill could have been fatal, so in many respects it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

It appears that Wiggins decided to neutralise the race, especially when Cadel Evans had had to stop three times with two flats, as did many other riders.  That seems to be the right thing to have done, so it's reasonable, but spoilt the final race, since there could have been some interesting racing up to the line, although it would probably have been a finish where things wouldn't have changed much.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #597 on: 15 July, 2012, 05:13:05 pm »
Well, that was... interesting, though not for the reasons I was expecting! Looking at the parcours, one would have thought that Evans, Nibali or VDB would have tried animating the race on the Mur, but Wiggins never looked even remotely under threat, and once Rogers had got back on and at the front, well that was it.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #598 on: 15 July, 2012, 05:19:08 pm »
Not complaining as anyone who can do the TDF is amazing in my book but Wiggo is winning this in the mode ala Armstrong ie gain time in the time trails and then use the team to neutralize the rest of the race. Is it possible to win it any other way in these days of scientific analysis of power outputs and team radios ?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #599 on: 15 July, 2012, 05:21:26 pm »
What happened last year?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...