Should we all move to Manchester

[Socks]

A £1.5 billion masterplan for cycling, with Local Authorities being consulted and encouraged to get involved as quickly as possible:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/cycling-walking-lanes-greater-manchester-14832995

A sad contrast with the complete lack of interest from my local councils.

[quixoticgeek]

<eating gouda and wearing clogs>

1.5 billion. How quaint... :p

J

[Si S]

I wouldn't recommend it.

We'll see what gets built, there does appear to be some learning going on, the segregated lane on curry mile is just lethal and some lessons were clearly learnt when it was extended up Oxford Road, but it's still nowhere near good enough or close to what was promised.

It's always worth remembering that this is the city that recently categorised this as high quality existing infrastructure to support a velo-city bid.

Mr Boardman and Mr Burnham may want this built but it's totally dependent upon the local authorities wanting to implement a scheme and bidding for the cash to do so. Word on the street is that the local authorities aren't so keen.

[Jurek]

<eating gouda and wearing clogs>

1.5 billion. How quaint... :p

J

 

[ScumOfTheRoad]

I won't agree of disagree with the infrastructure.
But chipping in with my experience of Netherlands and Denmark. Segregated lanes definitely.
But also the liability and attitude of car drivers. In both those countries when you drive a car and turn off a major road you give way to bicycles.
Also at traffic lights you get a green to turn right - but have to give way to crossing cyclists and pedestrians.
When cycle lanes run alonside a road, at the crossings of side streets the lanes are continuous. The cars give way set back from the road, ie the cycle track is considered the road.
I find as a car driver that you do pay more attention, and are aware of cyclists when you are emerging from a side road.

So th epoint really is that a change in attitudes is needed in addition to the infrastructure. Maybe they go together,

[Socks]

I won't agree of disagree with the infrastructure.
But chipping in with my experience of Netherlands and Denmark. Segregated lanes definitely.
But also the liability and attitude of car drivers. In both those countries when you drive a car and turn off a major road you give way to bicycles.
Also at traffic lights you get a green to turn right - but have to give way to crossing cyclists and pedestrians.
When cycle lanes run alonside a road, at the crossings of side streets the lanes are continuous. The cars give way set back from the road, ie the cycle track is considered the road.
I find as a car driver that you do pay more attention, and are aware of cyclists when you are emerging from a side road.

So th epoint really is that a change in attitudes is needed in addition to the infrastructure. Maybe they go together,

Absolutely - we have some alleged cycle lanes locally, but they are so badly designed it is safer to stay on the road.  Different attitudes and priorities required from local politicians, highways engineers and car drivers. 

[Kim]

So th epoint really is that a change in attitudes is needed in addition to the infrastructure. Maybe they go together,

I think so.  Partly because people aren't going to have infrastructure-related attitudes (eg. giving way to cycle paths with priority) until that infrastructure exists.  But also because more segregated cycle infrastructure will make more drivers people-who-sometimes-cycle.

[Chris S]

TBH, if all 1.5Bn was spent on getting Presumed Liability adopted nationwide, that would be a result.

That said, driving on the continent where it's a Thing, and cycling infrastructure unashamedly mixes it up with motor traffic at junctions, it makes driving much much more stressful. Or maybe it was just me - it's much harder when driving on the right, in a RHD vehicle.

[Jurek]

I won't agree of disagree with the infrastructure.
But chipping in with my experience of Netherlands and Denmark. Segregated lanes definitely.
But also the liability and attitude of car drivers. In both those countries when you drive a car and turn off a major road you give way to bicycles.
Also at traffic lights you get a green to turn right - but have to give way to crossing cyclists and pedestrians.
When cycle lanes run alonside a road, at the crossings of side streets the lanes are continuous. The cars give way set back from the road, ie the cycle track is considered the road.
I find as a car driver that you do pay more attention, and are aware of cyclists when you are emerging from a side road.

So th epoint really is that a change in attitudes is needed in addition to the infrastructure. Maybe they go together,

My bold.
Without stating the bleeding obvs, this is the difference.

[De Sisti]

It's always worth remembering that this is the city that recently categorised this as high quality existing infrastructure to support a velo-city bid.

That's bobbins!

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not sure that's the "attitude" of drivers, rather the attitude of planners and law makers. The drivers might well be cursing every time they have to give way to a cycle lane (just as they might be cursing at every red light or traffic jam), they do it because it's there and there's a penalty for not complying. The catch 22 for us in UK is that planners and politicians, even when they're ahead of the public (which is often), are beholden to their motoring votes and the associated polls, surveys, public media campaigns and so on.

[Si S]

It's always worth remembering that this is the city that recently categorised this as high quality existing infrastructure to support a velo-city bid.

That's bobbins!

The infra or my statement? I could probably find a link if you insist.

[De Sisti]

It's always worth remembering that this is the city that recently categorised this as high quality existing infrastructure to support a velo-city bid.

That's bobbins!

The infra or my statement? I could probably find a link if you insist.

I was referring to the Kingsway dual carriageway in the link as not being suitable as a cycling highway.

[Si S]

It's always worth remembering that this is the city that recently categorised this as high quality existing infrastructure to support a velo-city bid.

That's bobbins!

The infra or my statement? I could probably find a link if you insist.

I was referring to the Kingsway dual carriageway in the link as not being suitable as a cycling highway.

Thought so, the state of it means it's barely suitable for tanks at the moment let alone bikes, one of the more interesting parts of my commute, the initial plans for the Stretford re-development thing showed it becoming one lane the initial works for that was supposed to be done as part of the A56 junction improvement^* but that bit seems to have been left out.

* it's bad, very bad, most cyclists dismount for it now, almost impossible to defend against left hooks. The ASL on the A56 to turn into Edge Lane is pretty much unused since there aren't many cyclists that will attempt to cross 5 lanes of traffic.