London Fields by Martin Amis
Are we allowed kids books?
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
All the cast needed a bloody good smack.
Also the Gormenghast Trilogy, after about 100 pages of turgid close spaced small font drivel, without even getting past the introduction
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
All the cast needed bloody good smack.
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
All the cast needed a bloody good smack.
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
All the cast needed bloody good smack.
FTFY
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
All the cast needed a bloody good smack.
I quite enjoyed that, with the caveat that I was almost certainly drunk when I read it. Must try it again.
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
All the cast needed a bloody good smack.
I quite enjoyed that, with the caveat that I was almost certainly drunk when I read it. Must try it again.
The Corrections, never really got far. I've no doubt Franzen is a talented writer, but everyone character was some flavour of unpleasant, and it was basically a survey of the entitled and odious, and I just couldn't read another chapter that didn't promise to feature the words 'enormous explosion' and the 'the end.' It might have had something to say if the characters had some genuine struggle, but they were all rich, upper-middle-class Americans acting out their tedious self-involved issues.
That sort of middle-class book club literature on both sides of the Atlantic normally defeats me, they're filled with people I don't care about.
I struggled through Moby Dick.
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.I haven't read that but what I have read of his, some was good (about being a fire warden in a national park for instance) and some was stream of consciousness at its most meaningless. Unfortunately I can't remember all the titles. I looked up my library account to check, but they no longer show past loans, chiz!
All the cast needed a bloody good smack.
I struggled through Moby Dick.
I've not read Moby Dick but you mentioning it reminds me of Chad Harbach's The Art Of Fielding, which is a bizarre campus novel about baseball mashed up with a Herman Melville obsession. And it is truly dire. The worst kind of modern American literature.
Honestly, anyone who thinks The Corrections is unbearable should definitely steer well clear of this one, which is considerably worse.
'Filth' by Irvine Welsh.Nail smacked firmly on the head by our Welsh (not Irvine) correspondent.
Not badly written or anything, but it was only about a third of the way though that I realised that I didn't need this shit and had absolutely no interest in how the story progressed.
Are we allowed to nominate an "author's" entire output? If so anything and everything by E. E. Smith. Even a sci. fi. obsessed 14 yo could tell they were dreadful. I'm still trying to work out why I bothered reading more than one*. Thinking they couldn't *all* be that bad I flicked through a few others as I came across them. They were.I had the whole "Lensman" series. Killthe filthy
*I read two. It may be because I'd read every other sci. fi. book the library had, some several times. Remember libraries? Wonderful invention, wonder what became of them?
American Psycho.
American Psycho.
I know this is an entirely subjective exercise but you're wrong on this one.
Amis isn't an awful writer, but he's atrociously smug and is cursed by the belief that he's a far better writer than he is.
I jumped. I'd almost fallen asleep while Uncle Hamish had been droning on. I opened my eyes. The Tree was looking expectantly at me.
"Oh," I said. "Umm… I'd just like to put in a word for Salman Rushdie. Or at least take one out for old Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini… " I looked at Uncle Hamish, who was making quiet signals that I should clasp my hands and close my eyes. We were in the front lounge of Uncle Hamish and Aunt Tone's Victorian villa in the attractive Gallanach suburbette of Ballymeanoch, facing each other over a card table. I closed my eyes.
"Ah," I said. "Dear God, we pray that as well as suffering whatever part of the general physical unpleasantness involved in the Iran-Iraq war you may judge to be rightly his, you can find a spare area in his suffering, er, anti-create, for Mr R. Khomeini, late of Tehran and Qom, to experience at least some of the, umm, despair and continual worry currently being undergone by the novelist Mr S Rushdie, of Bombay and London, heathen and smart-alec though he may well be. Amen."
One of the Kingsley's books contains the most realistic description of a hangover I've ever read. It made me feel queasy reading it stone cold sober.Amis isn't an awful writer, but he's atrociously smug and is cursed by the belief that he's a far better writer than he is.
Found that with Salman Rushdie. Reading his stuff made me so angry I always baled after a chapter, if I got that far. Uncle Hamish in the BBC version of The Crow Road has a good line about him that I can't quite remember - something about "heathen and smart-alec".
Could never read Amis the younger, but enjoyed his dad's stuff until he committed Jake's Thing.
One of the Kingsley's books contains the most realistic description of a hangover I've ever read. It made me feel queasy reading it stone cold sober.Amis isn't an awful writer, but he's atrociously smug and is cursed by the belief that he's a far better writer than he is.
Found that with Salman Rushdie. Reading his stuff made me so angry I always baled after a chapter, if I got that far. Uncle Hamish in the BBC version of The Crow Road has a good line about him that I can't quite remember - something about "heathen and smart-alec".
Could never read Amis the younger, but enjoyed his dad's stuff until he committed Jake's Thing.
I've only read two James Bond novels; From Russia With Love and Goldfinger. Utter shite!Made me thunk of books to be classed with BeastQuest and Bond: "The Destroyer". So bad that I believe the movie was better than the books (and the movie was not good either).
I think it must have been in Lucky Jim, which is pretty good, but I've also read The Old Devils and Jake's Thing.One of the Kingsley's books contains the most realistic description of a hangover I've ever read. It made me feel queasy reading it stone cold sober.Amis isn't an awful writer, but he's atrociously smug and is cursed by the belief that he's a far better writer than he is.
Found that with Salman Rushdie. Reading his stuff made me so angry I always baled after a chapter, if I got that far. Uncle Hamish in the BBC version of The Crow Road has a good line about him that I can't quite remember - something about "heathen and smart-alec".
Could never read Amis the younger, but enjoyed his dad's stuff until he committed Jake's Thing.
Yes, but that was his good one; The Old Devils is OK, but two of his others are terminally dull (so dull that they put me off risking the others.
I think it must have been in Lucky Jim, which is pretty good, but I've also read The Old Devils and Jake's Thing.
I think it must have been in Lucky Jim, which is pretty good, but I've also read The Old Devils and Jake's Thing.
“Dixon was alive again. Consciousness was upon him before he could get out of the way; not for him the slow, gracious wandering from the halls of sleep, but a summary, forcible ejection. He lay sprawled, too wicked to move, spewed up like a broken spider-crab on the tarry shingle of morning. The light did him harm, but not as much as looking at things did; he resolved, having done it once, never to move his eyeballs again. A dusty thudding in his head made the scene before him beat like a pulse. His mouth had been used as a latrine by some small creature of the night, and then as its mausoleum. During the night, too, he'd somehow been on a cross-country run and then been expertly beaten up by secret police. He felt bad.”
There’s also a really good passage in Lucky Jim about greengages. And the drunken speech scene is laugh-out-loud funny.
Never read any other Kingsley Amis books though. Not sure why.
This is yacf. Give it another page or two and we’ll be talking about narwhals."Really bad narwhals you've swum with."
I think it must have been in Lucky Jim, which is pretty good, but I've also read The Old Devils and Jake's Thing.
“Dixon was alive again. Consciousness was upon him before he could get out of the way; not for him the slow, gracious wandering from the halls of sleep, but a summary, forcible ejection. He lay sprawled, too wicked to move, spewed up like a broken spider-crab on the tarry shingle of morning. The light did him harm, but not as much as looking at things did; he resolved, having done it once, never to move his eyeballs again. A dusty thudding in his head made the scene before him beat like a pulse. His mouth had been used as a latrine by some small creature of the night, and then as its mausoleum. During the night, too, he'd somehow been on a cross-country run and then been expertly beaten up by secret police. He felt bad.”
There’s also a really good passage in Lucky Jim about greengages. And the drunken speech scene is laugh-out-loud funny.
Never read any other Kingsley Amis books though. Not sure why.
HG Wells... even by the standards of the day, his prose is execrable.
HG Wells... even by the standards of the day, his prose is execrable.
This seems an odd thing to say - the early 20th century was a bit of a golden age for prose writers.
I think it must have been in Lucky Jim, which is pretty good, but I've also read The Old Devils and Jake's Thing.
“Dixon was alive again. Consciousness was upon him before he could get out of the way; not for him the slow, gracious wandering from the halls of sleep, but a summary, forcible ejection. He lay sprawled, too wicked to move, spewed up like a broken spider-crab on the tarry shingle of morning. The light did him harm, but not as much as looking at things did; he resolved, having done it once, never to move his eyeballs again. A dusty thudding in his head made the scene before him beat like a pulse. His mouth had been used as a latrine by some small creature of the night, and then as its mausoleum. During the night, too, he'd somehow been on a cross-country run and then been expertly beaten up by secret police. He felt bad.”
There’s also a really good passage in Lucky Jim about greengages. And the drunken speech scene is laugh-out-loud funny.
Never read any other Kingsley Amis books though. Not sure why.
He's a good example of my thesis. He obviously has a brilliance with words, but then mostly ran out of things to do with them (as said, his post-Lucky Jim books were a game of diminishing returns as you tried to root out a gem that shines like that above). That said, there's no reason why a good storyteller must be a good writer, they're in many ways different skills.
Perhaps my own choice of words was clumsy. As Ian rightly surmises, I was referring more to the (from a modern perspective) formality of the prose rather than its quality.
Among other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born; on a day and date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all events; the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this chapter.
Call me Ishmael.
Mr and Mrs Dursley, of number four Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.
Where's Papa going with that axe?' said Fern to her mother as they were setting the table for breakfast.
Yeah, just picking randomly Oliver Twist, which doesn't commence the short baited hook that I'm sure every creative writing course demands but ratherQuote from: Chucky DAmong other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born; on a day and date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all events; the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this chapter.
Which I'm not sure you'd get away with these days (though it is very good, though not as good or as memorable as A Tale of Two Cities). That said Moby Dick started with a more circumspectQuote from: The Mellifluous HCall me Ishmael.
You had to read to the end to find out that he was actually called Derek.
I dug out the first line of Harry Potter for comparison.Quote from: Jerky ProwlingsMr and Mrs Dursley, of number four Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.
And good god, that seems an awful start to any book. It's notQuoteWhere's Papa going with that axe?' said Fern to her mother as they were setting the table for breakfast.
Words which terrorized my generation's childhoods.
It was the day my grandmother exploded. I sat in the crematorium, listening to my Uncle Hamish quietly snoring in harmony to Bach's Mass in B Minor, and I reflected that it always seemed to be death that drew me back to Gallanach.
Yeah, just picking randomly Oliver Twist, which doesn't commence the short baited hook that I'm sure every creative writing course demands but ratherYebbut neither Oliver Twist nor Moby Dick are in any way early 20th century. They're not even late 19th.Quote from: Chucky DAmong other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born; on a day and date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all events; the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this chapter.
Which I'm not sure you'd get away with these days (though it is very good, though not as good or as memorable as A Tale of Two Cities). That said Moby Dick started with a more circumspectQuote from: The Mellifluous HCall me Ishmael.
I dug out the first line of Harry Potter for comparison.Quote from: Jerky ProwlingsMr and Mrs Dursley, of number four Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.
And good god, that seems an awful start to any book.
Battlefield Earth - L. Ron Hubbard
Close the thread.
I dug out the first line of Harry Potter for comparison.Quote from: Jerky ProwlingsMr and Mrs Dursley, of number four Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much.
And good god, that seems an awful start to any book.
I’d say it’s a very good opening line - it accurately (if somewhat stereotypically) conveys the kind of suburban middle-class mediocrity that no aspiring child wizard could fail to recognise as the life they long to escape from. You know instantly these are the bad guys. Or at least not the good guys. They’re just the guys.
Plus, from a literary point of view, it sets a very firm limit on your expectations right from the off. Carry on reading at your peril. You can’t say you weren’t warned.
While we're on sci-fi, a shout out for Heinlein's Starship Troopers which I was persuaded to read a year or two back. Deeply, deeply awful. Unironically fascistic, stodgily written, with characters you wanted to drop an asteroid on, and – worst of all – criminally dull. In the movie, they're fighting monstrous aliens, there's a nice stream of sarcasm. None of that in the book, it's a po-faced boys-own guide to fascism. Hang on, we're going to do a rundown of military ranks again.
it contains what is arguably the worst line in the whole of SF: Our teeth grated and her nipples went spung.
I was wondering how we'd got to page 3 without Dan Brown.
I'd never have suspected it of him. :oI was wondering how we'd got to page 3 without Dan Brown.
Got a mention by T42 on page 1:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117827.msg2571454#msg2571454
I'd never have suspected it of him. :oI was wondering how we'd got to page 3 without Dan Brown.
Got a mention by T42 on page 1:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117827.msg2571454#msg2571454
Haven't read altered carbon, but the series on Netflix was entertaining enough to have on whilst on the turbo in the shed of dismal pain
Talking about Tom Clancy, I still have memories of Dan Brown's Digital Fortress. A fantasy armoured C130 or B52 - I can't remember which - which can range about the world dealing death to the enemies of the USA without suffering a scratch. That tells us something about the USA psyche, and their way of waging war against extenal enemies.
Update: a search says Digital Fortress is about something else. I may be imagining this book
Haven't read altered carbon, but the series on Netflix was entertaining enough to have on whilst on the turbo in the shed of dismal pain
The TV series was better. The book meanders in such a way that it's often difficult to remember who did what, and why it might be important to know this. There's a lot of overcomplexity that doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than fill out the book and it relies a lot on coincidence to hold it together. Much of the book is dedicated to the current status of the lead character's penis. It could have been subtitled The Continuing Adventures of Takeshi Kovac's Penis.
And yeah, it's the future. It rains a lot. Everything is a bit grim. And all the women are prostitutes or need saving by men who treat them like prostitutes. Or Takeshi Kovac's penis. They're probably going to meet it anyway. And the sex scenes are cringers, he really loves his penis does Takeshi. It's a bit like your dad telling you about his sex life in detail. You really don't want to know but he won't stop.
I should be fair, for balance, there's a lot about breasts. Sometimes they have women attached to them. Don't worry, I see a certain penis in their future. Then they'll probably die violently. At least they got to enjoy the penis first.
Our teeth grated and her nipples went spung.Not sure which is funnier, this or the Narwhals?
In the spirit of awful and because I was thinking about poo, I did browse the bookshelves of my wife's literary cave and recover a weighty hardback copy of Harry Potter and Philosopher's Stone.I think this brings us back to the start of the thread. While I accept that sequels are often worse than the original, this was "Episode 1" to a rather sub-standard first outing. If you had not recently read the first book you will have missed some of the awfulness of the book, but also the humour of the house point system (answer two questions in class? twenty house points. Defeat a troll that is invading the school, five house points. Out of bed after dark? Lose one hundred and fifty house points and get sent to the dark woods to catch something that is worse than werewolves ... oh, lets split up by the way).
Captain Corelli's Mandolin...tried several times to read it, but stopped because boredom
Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two.
Captain Corelli's Mandolin...tried several times to read it, but stopped because boredom
I forgot this...
Captain Corelli's Mandolin...tried several times to read it, but stopped because boredom
I forgot this...
I did wonder why you hadn't mentioned it yet. ;D
I don't know if it was Louis de Bernieres who started it, but I recall there was a bit of a glut of books peddling that kind of patronising whimsy from the late 90s onwards.
On which note, does the panel think the No.1 Ladies Detective Agency series deserve a mention in this thread? I did read the first couple before I got thoroughly bored of them, but they made so little impression on me that I can't actually recall if they're genuinely bad or just dull.
... the plot (which I assume follows the book) is exactly that of Star Wars.Aren’t they all? (Other than the first wheel of time book, which rips off narnia and the lord of the rings in equal measure).
Wasn't it around the time of Four Weddings and a Funeral, which spawned dozens of similar films and books, and adaptions of the books, until we basically floated on an ocean of our own spew? If you wanted edgy, you had to reach for Bridget Jones.
Captain Corelli's Mandolin...tried several times to read it, but stopped because boredom
[/quote
It's a terrible, terrible book. Boring and overwrought.
You should* try reading some of his other books, most of which seem to have titles like The Inspirational Revelations of Professor Gomez's Bag of Suppositories or something like that.
*by which I mean 'should not', for the sake of your sanity
To be honest, I find good writing a bit of a chore without a story to drive it.
... the plot (which I assume follows the book) is exactly that of Star Wars.Aren’t they all? (Other than the first wheel of time book, which rips off narnia and the lord of the rings in equal measure).
I cannot comment about Alexander’s works as I have only ever read 3&1/2 pillars of wisdom. He does write three books a year though, so anything above mediocre would be impressive.
... a weighty hardback copy of Harry Potter and Philosopher's Stone.Compared to Enid Blyton I think you'll find Ms Rowling is a literary genius. Well..., perhaps not but, I remember reading *reams* of Mrs (definitely _not_ Ms) Blyton's stuff when I was busy lurking at primary school. Secret Seven {insert remainder of title} and Five {insert *parody* title} etc. Ms Rowling's stuff is no worse and some might say it's a good deal better for the lack of crashingly unpleasant and offensive stereotyping of peoples other than middle class whitey. And as bad as Blyton's (and Rowling's) work appears to an adult's eyes we're (arguments about whether I count as grown up or not can be held elsewhere) not the target audience. Yeah, I have read the Potter stories. No, they're not great literature but they do tell a story and not all that badly. If I'd had those instead of Blyton at primary school I'd have been blown away.
It's not as bad as I feared...
On which note, does the panel think the No.1 Ladies Detective Agency series deserve a mention in this thread? I did read the first couple before I got thoroughly bored of them, but they made so little impression on me that I can't actually recall if they're genuinely bad or just dull.Friday mornings I help out in a charity bookshop. I was joking to the manager just a fortnight ago that soon we'll have to give McCall Smith his own shelf.
out False Value, ... and it still makes no sense.Umm does it matter? Open book, switch off critical and logical circuits, enjoy lightweight nonsense about *magical* cops & villains.
...tbh, the plot seems little more than a lead-in to future books.On that we can agree, the whole had a definite feeling of marking time.
This is turning into books ian doesn't like, isn't it?Aye, but it's good fun because you convey disdain, dismay, disappointment and disgust so well and it gives the rest of us an excuse to come up with counter arguments and protests. Please continue, you are entertaining us mightily* :)
...
Turgid prose - way back in the early '80s I did a lot of long distance1 travelling by train. I'd pick up remaindered books to while the time away. One was a series of essays by Gore Vidal. One section was on fiction writing2. His theory was that most American novels were being written by academics for other academics to review and criticise and weren't really meant to be entertainment. The style and technique were more important than the content.
...
1: Southampton to Snowdonia for the weekend, for instance
2: the other section was about American politics. He always referred to Nixon as the First Criminal. I have often wondered what he would have made of the soon to be ex-incumbent of that office.
A couple of points:
Harry Potter - when the books were appearing, my mother was a supply teacher and whenever a new book came out, ALL the children would be reading whenever they got a chance. This was particularly notable with the ones who otherwise never voluntarily picked up a book. That has to be a good thing, whatever the merits of the series as literature.
Turgid prose - way back in the early '80s I did a lot of long distance1 travelling by train. I'd pick up remaindered books to while the time away. One was a series of essays by Gore Vidal. One section was on fiction writing2. His theory was that most American novels were being written by academics for other academics to review and criticise and weren't really meant to be entertainment. The style and technique were more important than the content.
Another book I didn't finish. The Game of Kings by Dorothy Dunnett. An ex-girlfriend was almost obsessed with this series. I've tried twice, one when I was still seeing her, and once about thirty years later. I did get a bit further on the second time, but not that far.
1: Southampton to Snowdonia for the weekend, for instance
2: the other section was about American politics. He always referred to Nixon as the First Criminal. I have often wondered what he would have made of the soon to be ex-incumbent of that office.
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall
Why did I persist? I had no choice. I was being forced to read it.
Reminds me of Russian literature - when characters have a given name, a patronymic and a diminutive nickname, it can take a while to get to grips with who's talking to whom.My two paperback volumes of War & Peace, a birthday gift in 1978, went to Oxfam 2 or 3 years ago. I never got past chapter 3 despite *many* attempts because of this. Volume 2 was never opened.
Quote from: speshReminds me of Russian literature - when characters have a given name, a patronymic and a diminutive nickname, it can take a while to get to grips with who's talking to whom.My two paperback volumes of War & Peace, a birthday gift in 1978, went to Oxfam 2 or 3 years ago. I never got past chapter 3 despite *many* attempts because of this. Volume 2 was never opened.
Russian is much better at expressing emotion than meaning.
I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall
This needs expanding on... did you then enjoy the last 200 pages? Or was that the point at which you stopped reading? If the former, was it worth the effort to get that far? If the latter, why didn’t you stop sooner?
I vaguely recall that the pace does pick up towards the end. I loved it. All 600 pages. And Bring Up The Bodies is even better. Not read the latest one yet - feel I need to read the first two again as a refresher before I take it on.
Isn't the Twilight series basically a girl trying to choose between necrophilia or bestiality?
I didn't hate the book – it's a fascinating story – but I agree with Deflatus that the confusion seemed engineered (or they really couldn't afford editors). I'm not sure the benefit other than to make it seem a bit cleverer. I don't believe there's anyone who read it and didn't get confused, because at times there was no possible way to know without going back and trying to build a map of who was talking to who. The simple expedient of using a name would have solved it and made the entire book a lot more readable. But of course, wouldn't have been clever.
ian, you've happily reminded me of one of my favourite passages from any book ever - the scene in Small World by David Lodge where a novelist reveals the cause of his enduring writer's block. As the author of this blog notes, the same passage has clearly impressed others as well...
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000361.html (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000361.html)
(It might help to know before reading this that Frobisher, the novelist, is a Stan Barstow/Alan Sillitoe/Keith Waterhouse 'gritty realism' kind of writer.)
"That's a terrible job," Mr May ejaculated.
It's a pity that the 1988 ITV version of "Small World" was never repeated or published on DVD. I recall it being quite good. https://thiswayupzine.blogspot.com/2011/08/forgotten-tv-small-world.html
"That's a terrible job," Mr May ejaculated.
Lots of ejaculation in Wuthering Heights.
But then it is a love story, I suppose.
I gave up about 2 hours into the audio.I hated the first 400 pages of Wolf Hall
This needs expanding on... did you then enjoy the last 200 pages? Or was that the point at which you stopped reading? If the former, was it worth the effort to get that far? If the latter, why didn’t you stop sooner?
I vaguely recall that the pace does pick up towards the end. I loved it. All 600 pages. And Bring Up The Bodies is even better. Not read the latest one yet - feel I need to read the first two again as a refresher before I take it on.
I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time.
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.
I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time.
I have never ever taken, or wanted to take, notes about any book I'm reading for enjoyment. That probably explains a lot about my choice of reading matter.
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff. I read everything he wrote. All of Biggles, and also the ones about the commandos. Then Alistair Maclean - some pretty thin stuff there but I loved them. Like Flemings work, they were of their time and are pretty unreadable now.
I thought HMS Ulysses might stand the test of time better than the later things Maclean wrote. I'll have to see if I still have a copy to find out.
The only one in your list I've read, or even contemplated reading. It hasn't particularly lodged in my memory – what did you dislike so much about it?
I just checked my notes to remind myself what I thought of it at the time.
I have never ever taken, or wanted to take, notes about any book I'm reading for enjoyment. That probably explains a lot about my choice of reading matter.
My 'notes' are in the form of a short review on Goodreads. I often, but not always, write a review when I finish a book. This is for no one's benefit but my own - I would otherwise forget most of the books I read, and what I thought of them.
For the purposes of this thread, here are some of the books I've rated 1* on Goodreads:
The Art of Fielding - Chad Harbach
Mr Phillips - John Lanchester (I also gave Capital 1* but on reflection, I think that was a bit harsh - it's miles better than Mr Phillips)
The Fun Factory - Chris England
Death Comes To Pemberley - PD James (an insult to Jane Austen)
The Racketeer - John Grisham (I have enjoyed many Grisham books - they're usually lightweight and easily digestible fare, but this was one was rotten)
The Hundred Year Old Man Who Climbed Out Of The Window And Disappeared - Jonas Jonasson (Ugh! I'd forgotten this one. Truly awful.)
Remarkable Creatures - Tracy Chevalier
I tend to be quite generous with my ratings, so will only give 1* to books I really couldn't stand. But even these I could stand enough to finish them at least.
QuoteRemarkable Creatures - Tracy ChevalierThe only one in your list I've read, or even contemplated reading. It hasn't particularly lodged in my memory – what did you dislike so much about it?
Captain WE Johns wrote some pretty awful stuff.The 9 YO Lurker would disagree quite strongly with you on that. :)
Something like that?
... Iain (& M) Banks, ...I dislike Banks (and Vonnegut) intensely but I don't know that I would describe either of them as Bad, let alone Really Bad. It could be just my bad luck but both Banks books I read basically ended with "and then I woke up and it was all a dream" - something that I was told was unacceptable at a primary school level. Vonnegut has some interesting ideas, but I have never sympathised with any characters in any of his books (I've read three or four) which means that frankly I couldn't care less what happens.
I can't get into classic stuff like Austen or Dickens as I find the prose style so dull I can't get anything from them.
Austen’s prose is light and fluffy by comparison.And short* sentences. A proto-Hemingway if you will. Now there's an image. "Mama" Austen in a bar on island (Jersey?) knocking back rum all the while smoking a succession of clay pipes and scribbling away. In fact I think that's probably what happened. She didn't die in 1817, but ran away to drink the profits and write the great feminist novel and died, poverty stricken, of cirrhosis of the liver in a St. Helier knocking shop in 1830.
*By comparison with C. Dickens. No-one writes sentences of such *interminable* length as Dickens.
No one has mentioned RR Tolkein yet. Managed to finish the sodding Hobbit to then find we had to do it in school *snore*. Over-hyped excessively verbose and turgid... Haven't been able to read any of the others.Read the Hobbit no worries but bailed on the LOTR after the first book both times I tried to read through. (still better than the film though).
Struggling to think of other bad books I have tried or failed to read. I can't get into classic stuff like Austen or Dickens as I find the prose style so dull I can't get anything from them.
Not sure what the point of Austen is.
Not sure what the point of Austen is. I had a tutor group once where we had a page-o-meter to track how far they'd read through Emma (those foolish enough to take English Lit at A-level) - as they all hated it. Over half the English Lit group hadn't read the book by the time the exam came. (Yes, you do need to question why the Head of English decided to go with Emma over Gatsby, but you'd lost me at "English" to be fair).
“Far From The Madding Crowd” for GCE Eng Lit which I didn’t care for, though it’s probably a good description of late Victorian rural life. It’s never tempted me to pick up anything else by Hardy.
We had to read 3. The Hardy, Merchant of Venice and I can’t remember the 3rd ... :facepalm:Book :BNW
Surely that's true of any book you have to study at school? Certainly I hated every writer whose books I had to study.
Not sure what the point of Austen is.
They're always played really straight by period dramas but her writing is so light, when you read it yourself without the costumes it's much funnier.
English Literature seems like a really good way to ruin people's experience of books.+1
*By comparison with C. Dickens. No-one writes sentences of such *interminable* length as Dickens.
You should try some Henry Fielding.
Und die kleine Antonie, achtjährig und zartgebaut, in einem Kleidchen aus ganz leichter changierender Seide, den hübschen Blondkopf ein wenig vom Gesichte des Großvaters abgewandt, blickte aus ihren graublauen Augen angestrengt nachdenkend und ohne etwas zu sehen ins Zimmer hinein, wiederholte noch einmal: »Was ist das«, sprach darauf langsam: »Ich glaube, daß mich Gott«, fügte, während ihr Gesicht sich aufklärte, rasch hinzu: »– geschaffen hat samt allen Kreaturen«, war plötzlich auf glatte Bahn geraten und schnurrte nun, glückstrahlend und unaufhaltsam, den ganzen Artikel daher, getreu nach dem Katechismus, wie er soeben, anno 1835, unter Genehmigung eines hohen und wohlweisen Senates, neu revidiert herausgegeben war.
The saving grace was, "The Pardoner's tale", but just barely and then only because it had the sort of humour that a 14/15 YO schoolboy understands. I.e. fart jokes. As any fule kno you can't beat a peom* with fart jokes in it.
*It wasn't much cop as a peom. How can it be a peom if it do not rime eh? I ask you.
Quote from: KimEnglish Literature seems like a really good way to ruin people's experience of books.+1
They didn't help matters for my cohort by choosing, "Where Angels fear to Tread" by E.M. Forster and if I ever meet Puck, Titania or Oberon in a dark alley they will be, both severally and individually, very dead fairies. The saving grace was, "The Pardoner's tale", but just barely and then only because it had the sort of humour that a 14/15 YO schoolboy understands. I.e. fart jokes. As any fule kno you can't beat a peom* with fart jokes in it.
*It wasn't much cop as a peom. How can it be a peom if it do not rime eh? I ask you.
Living in Bath in the early 90s, those movies were 'spot the extras you know'. But maybe I'll give her a go, one day.Not sure what the point of Austen is.
She's funny .
Laugh out loud ridiculousness of people, funny. The ones that get dramatised are the romances, inevitably, but Northanger Abbey is hysterical. They're always played really straight by period dramas but her writing is so light, when you read it yourself without the costumes it's much funnier.
Best film Jane Austen? Easy: Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.
I had to wade through kes at school. I found it tugid and depressing :-\
The saving grace was, "The Pardoner's tale", but just barely and then only because it had the sort of humour that a 14/15 YO schoolboy understands. I.e. fart jokes. As any fule kno you can't beat a peom* with fart jokes in it.
The Miller's tale is even better - it has hairy twat jokes.Quote*It wasn't much cop as a peom. How can it be a peom if it do not rime eh? I ask you.
My recollection is that it does rhyme - but maybe that's only if you read it in authentic period style, which my English teacher used to take great delight in doing. Surprisingly, this didn't put me off Chaucer.
I did notice that when we read "Stig of the Dump" in year 5 it went downhill rapidly due to being read for school, in much the same way as "The Hobbit" in year 7. I did get exposed to a bunch of books I would never have read otherwise and, importantly, learned from it - but our system was very different (we would read about a dozen books through the year, IIRC we did 2-3 Shakespeares in year 7 or 8, including MacBeth). We also read lots of books for French which I would totes not have read otherwise and they were generally enjoyable to be fair. The really bad books were the ones that you can't relate to at all as a kid or that are designed to be unreadable - e.g. "Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man", "Pride and Prejudice" and "The Kraken Wakes" (I remember a section about "communing with nature" and then some more oblique shit which was the author's attempt at saying "went to their second home and build a wall down the garden").Not sure what the point of Austen is. I had a tutor group once where we had a page-o-meter to track how far they'd read through Emma (those foolish enough to take English Lit at A-level) - as they all hated it. Over half the English Lit group hadn't read the book by the time the exam came. (Yes, you do need to question why the Head of English decided to go with Emma over Gatsby, but you'd lost me at "English" to be fair).
Surely that's true of any book you have to study at school? Certainly I hated every writer whose books I had to study.
William Golding's "Lord of The Flies" was inflicted on us. Cannot remember much. Vaguely remember the popular blond kid took control and everything went wrong, or is that real life.
This bit annoyed me intensely. It's more important in the film (which they showed at school before we read the book), but it's still a major plot point. When I'd first got glasses I was most upset to discover that I couldn't set fire to things with them.William Golding's "Lord of The Flies" was inflicted on us. Cannot remember much. Vaguely remember the popular blond kid took control and everything went wrong, or is that real life.<snip>
Piggy's glasses would have had concave lenses, which can't be used to start a fire.
I can't tell whether:William Golding's "Lord of The Flies" was inflicted on us. Cannot remember much. Vaguely remember the popular blond kid took control and everything went wrong, or is that real life.
As I got into trouble for arguing in English class: Lord of the Flies was Jurassic Park without any of the good bits.
I think I read Jurassic Park in 1992 (certainly before the film came out), at around the same time we were having Lord of the Flies inflicted on us. I'd have been what was then known as a 'second year', or 'year 8' in modern parlance.
The book has approximately the same plot as the film, but a lot more waffle about chaotic systems seeking a stable (for chaotic values of stable) state. Lord of the Flies does broadly similar, without the interesting mathematics, or the important business lesson that if you're going to "spare no expense" that policy really should extend to your IT department.
(A while ago I read an article about group of schoolboys who got stranded on an island in real life, and as you might expect, they cooperated to do a splendid job of survival, rather than forming cults and murdering each other.)
That will be why you didn’t get along with your English lessons:
the important business lesson that if you're going to "spare no expense" that policy really should extend to your IT department.
I think I read Jurassic Park in 1992 (certainly before the film came out), at around the same time we were having Lord of the Flies inflicted on us. I'd have been what was then known as a 'second year', or 'year 8' in modern parlance.They were Polynesians. Superior culture.
The book has approximately the same plot as the film, but a lot more waffle about chaotic systems seeking a stable (for chaotic values of stable) state. Lord of the Flies does broadly similar, without the interesting mathematics, or the important business lesson that if you're going to "spare no expense" that policy really should extend to your IT department.
(A while ago I read an article about group of schoolboys who got stranded on an island in real life, and as you might expect, they cooperated to do a splendid job of survival, rather than forming cults and murdering each other.)
I'm an avid reader, and in pre-easy internet days would devour paperbacks as a way of passing time when travelling for work. I'd read just about anything, and finish them because there was nothing else to do.
One of the few I failed to finish, on probably four attempts now since buying a copy in Berkeley in 1991, is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It starts out OK and quite interesting - both the tale of the trip and the philosophical musings, but ends up unreadable by about half way in. I keep going back to it wondering if an older viewpoint on life will make it any better, but no.
I started to read it aged about 20 and gave up around page 22. I read the whole thing maybe ten years ago. Or perhaps longer ago than that. All I remember is making shims out of a coke can.That's all I remember too!
One of the few I failed to finish, on probably four attempts now since buying a copy in Berkeley in 1991, is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
and I've battled my way through the Survivalist series mentioned above, and some of John Norman's Gor books.
I may as well mention The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. Perhaps it's not a bad book per se, but I never got on with it. OK, it's clever in places and there are some very good, pithy one-liners, but it's most a death march of nerdy jokes and enforced quirkiness. It gets tiresome quickly. By about page 4. The plot is basically random wacky events wrapped like I do Christmas presents. It was sort of the book equivalent of a laughter track left on play. I never tried the sequels. The perhaps worse thing is that it's the sort of book that haunts because people won't shut about it. Ha ha, zorgonic pffazlefaz or somesuch. I say people, but it's always men. Oh, I'm sure there's a rule-proving female exception, but it's a book that channels a peculiar form of nerdy masculinity. It's the book equivalent of the workplace posters that declare 'you don't have to mad to work here but it helps.' The only solution to those requires a flame thrower.
Ah, Pratchett... I've always been borderline allergic to the charms of Pratchett but have lately softened my stance thanks to a couple of decent adaptations on the radio - Small Gods and Mort. I've since read the first book, and found it moderately enjoyable. Might even read some more.
Dune is one I read as a teen, and was suitably impressed. I read the first sequel but then lost interest after that. I still love the David Lynch film though, which is entirely as ridiculous as it needs to be. Feeling somewhat sceptical about the new one.
Also read the original Hitchhikers trilogy as a teen and enjoyed those. Mostly for the one-liners, eg "Hurry up or you'll be late - as in the late Dentarthurdent. It's a kind of a threat." - that one has stuck with me down the years, although it may not be an entirely accurate quote. Didn't bother with any of the later books. Quite enjoyed Dirk Gently though.
I may as well mention The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. Perhaps it's not a bad book per se, but I never got on with it. OK, it's clever in places and there are some very good, pithy one-liners, but it's most a death march of nerdy jokes and enforced quirkiness. It gets tiresome quickly. By about page 4. The plot is basically random wacky events wrapped like I do Christmas presents. It was sort of the book equivalent of a laughter track left on play. I never tried the sequels. The perhaps worse thing is that it's the sort of book that haunts because people won't shut about it. Ha ha, zorgonic pffazlefaz or somesuch. I say people, but it's always men. Oh, I'm sure there's a rule-proving female exception, but it's a book that channels a peculiar form of nerdy masculinity. It's the book equivalent of the workplace posters that declare 'you don't have to mad to work here but it helps.' The only solution to those requires a flame thrower.
See also 'Red Dwarf'.
Never tried reading Red Dwarf. Was is a book first?
Does make you question why he's covered in English lessons and not Drama.
That's a splendidly awful line. It's not just the layer/strata, but the fact it adds absolutely nothing to the description of lifting the picture to check if there was anything underneath.
I remember this was recommended to me by the same person who recommended Gone Girl, which I also hated. I should have known better.I had a former tutee, who was doing A-level English Lit, who reckoned that was her favorite book. I reckon it may have been the only book she ever read to be fair ...
Oddly, I was the peculiar child who liked Shakespeare at school (we did Twelfth Night). I liked the twisty-turny language.
We also did Shaw's Pygmalion. I'm not sure whether that was on the curriculum or expressed our English teacher's wish that we'd all learn to talk proper. We'd already destroyed a number of French teachers.
It always makes me laugh that every DH Lawrence adaption has people sounding like they're from Yorkshire.
Oddly, I was the peculiar child who liked Shakespeare at school (we did Twelfth Night). I liked the twisty-turny language.
We also did Shaw's Pygmalion. I'm not sure whether that was on the curriculum or expressed our English teacher's wish that we'd all learn to talk proper. We'd already destroyed a number of French teachers.
It always makes me laugh that every DH Lawrence adaption has people sounding like they're from Yorkshire.
Ian, are you old enough to have seen the Python sketch in which Lawrence's father (Graham Chapman, I think), dressed working-class-wise, berates DH (Palin) along the lines of "You could've been a writer or a painter, or musician, like everyone else, but no, you had to ponce about down the pit....."? I'm doing it from memory, but I think I've got the essence!
Ah think that were Yorkshire, rather than the East Midlands cockney of Nottamunshire, too, but it was very funny.
I think I might have and yes, I believe it was Yorkshire. It always is. You will never hear a proper Erewashian accent and if you did, you'd wish you hadn't. It's not an accent that travels.
I've told the story of when I brought my American girlfriend back to the UK to meet my family. As we toiled back to Heathrow she looked at me and said 'I didn't understand a thing. For the entire weekend." To be fair, she'd trained by watching Four Weddings and Funeral and I've elocuted myself into a stupid semi-posho accent that's probably even worse than I think it sounds. Every time I speak to my family, I have to do that cognitive adjustment*. To be fair, when people yell eh oop me duck at you, you do have to wonder if you're about to be Clockwork Oranged or somesuch.
*this the same one Americans always have to do when they deal with a British accent that isn't Hugh Grant-ish. As a plus, any kind of British accent is mesmerizing for some American women, a power which I, of course, used responsibly.
Also the use of the word “squaw” is Strongly Deprecated these days.
The only A.N.Wilson book I have is the Betjeman one and I only bought that for the letter.Also the use of the word “squaw” is Strongly Deprecated these days.
AN Wilson strikes me as the sort of person who would reply "PC gone mad" if you levelled that one at him.
I think it's OK in the context though, given that it's historical fiction. The Cherokee are also referred to as Indians, Redskins and Savages by various characters. And the African slaves are referred to as... well, I'm sure you can guess.
I would place outdated language low on the list of problems with this book.
I saw that^^ but the headline alone put my off. The idea of even reading about Trumpian erotica was too sickening, let lone reading the actual books (are they books?).
Anything by Nina Bawden, also favoured of school English teachers. Blarg.Oh goodness, yes. Miserable teenagers Finding Themselves. Grim.
Chuck Tingle seems to be something of a literary sensation.
Chuck Tingle seems to be something of a literary sensation.
Chuck Tingle sounds like the kind of sensation you would go to see your GP about.
I was going to say I enjoyed her books as a kid, but on checking, it turns out I've never read a single one. I must have been confusing her with Enid Nesbit or someone with a similar Edwardian-sounding name.Anything by Nina Bawden, also favoured of school English teachers. Blarg.Oh goodness, yes. Miserable teenagers Finding Themselves. Grim.
(On the other hand I was a JRRT addict; I think you either really like or totally dislike that kind of thing.)
I was going to say I enjoyed her books as a kid, but on checking, it turns out I've never read a single one. I must have been confusing her with Enid Nesbit or someone with a similar Edwardian-sounding name.Anything by Nina Bawden, also favoured of school English teachers. Blarg.Oh goodness, yes. Miserable teenagers Finding Themselves. Grim.
(On the other hand I was a JRRT addict; I think you either really like or totally dislike that kind of thing.)
E. Nesbit I remember as being a little hard going just because her language is older - good books as far as I can recall. I read a lot of Enid Blyton - especially the school stories - I think "they haven't aged well" as the saying is... not that I can remember much about them now.I was going to say I enjoyed her books as a kid, but on checking, it turns out I've never read a single one. I must have been confusing her with Enid Nesbit or someone with a similar Edwardian-sounding name.Anything by Nina Bawden, also favoured of school English teachers. Blarg.Oh goodness, yes. Miserable teenagers Finding Themselves. Grim.
(On the other hand I was a JRRT addict; I think you either really like or totally dislike that kind of thing.)
I think you're conflating Enid Blyton and Edith Nesbit. Enid Blyton definitely deserves a place on this thread: I found her unreadable even as a kid (which probably disqualified me from half the children's books at the time). I'm sure I read some Nesbit but found her dull. Quite possibly I read something by Nina Bawden too, if so it was utterly unmemorable. Not even bad.