Author Topic: Base training (Read 251885 times)

Pedal Castro · « **Reply #325 on:** 04 December, 2016, 06:21:17 pm »

Intense pain in knee halfway through last interval in a 4x8' Seiler set yesterday. Had to keep the cadence low (80-85 rather than 95-100) for today's 4x15' sweetspot session. Doc had said training couldn't make any it worse than it was apparently so I ignore the pain and carry on...

It's going to be 10-11 weeks before I see the consultant, then it'll be an MRI followed by hopefully a general clean up of all the crap swilling about in the joint.

DrMekon · « **Reply #326 on:** 04 December, 2016, 06:28:36 pm »

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 27 November, 2016, 11:11:27 am

Very nice.

I did my endurance workout yesterday, so 64km and 1200m of climb with VO2 max efforts going over the tops. Seriously? The VO2max efforts only happened in the last 15km and were definitely sub par.

TSS for the ride was 290 and another 89 today gives me 683 for the week. Not bad for a 58 year old.

Agreed - this week was 640, and I know it, and you have 14yrs on me. The next 4 weeks are 500, 590, 640 (Xmas week), then 480 followed blood lactate testing on the Tuesday of the following week. Will be interesting to see if there's been an improvement.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #327 on:** 05 December, 2016, 02:25:36 pm »

Last week was low as I bailed on the long ride. Legs were still in bed when I was 20km up the road so I turned round and came home. Still 500 for the week and a new FTP set almost by accident. Doing a 20,1520 min pyramid and felt really good so just pushed on. Low and behold FTP up by 10.

Rest week this week then a couple of hard weeks before Christmas. Then 10 days off work at home in January for some 2 hour sessions on the turbo!

rob · « **Reply #328 on:** 05 December, 2016, 09:58:38 pm »

Turbo work last Tuesday left me pretty wiped out. Spent a couple of days thinking I was coming down with something, but I eventually thought it might just have been the cold in the garage. I was supposed to be adapting from then anyway so backed off and tried to eat properly. Felt good so did the planned road session yesterday and now feel battered. Will see how turboing goes Tue/Thu as I'm now building again.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #329 on:** 07 December, 2016, 02:27:17 pm »

So following the increase in FTP I had two hard sessions last night and this morning at the new levels.

first the TSS goes down when FTP goes up! I now have to work even harder!

Second, I thought last week that my legs were feeling good and I must be getting fitter as they didn't hurt after a session. Guess what, this week they hurt again!

I know you all know this but I just felt like a man rant! Bit like man flu probably.

simonp · « **Reply #330 on:** 07 December, 2016, 02:42:02 pm »

Yes. Cycling doesn't get easier you only get faster.

I had a ramp test last year and it came out at 280W. That was too high and it made some workouts impossible. Problem is ramp test being in 20W increments. FTP was probably around 270. A month later 2x8m test gave 275W which was more reasonable.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #331 on:** 07 December, 2016, 03:46:21 pm »

280W is high end aspirational for me at the moment. Training peaks gave me 211 but I paced it really badly so I have been doing trainerroad with FTP set at 225W. I am managing the threshold efforts (6 intervals of 5 minutes at FTP with 3 minute recovery and 5 max sprints for 10 seconds with 50 second recovery) with a decoupling of around 3% in the intervals.

last night was 15 minute efforts at FTP which gave a significantly higher Pw:HR of almost 7% in the last interval.

overall I think I am on track and looking forward to seeing what I can achieve.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #332 on:** 13 December, 2016, 06:54:39 pm »

solid session on sunday. 88km at 25kph average with 70% of the time in Zone 2 HR. Yesterday was 20,15,10 at FTP with recovery which i barely managed and then tonight was 8 x1minute sprint intervals with 3 minute recovery. It was a shambles. Only managed a TSS of 72 for the 50 minutes. Thankfully sports massage now and then a rest day tomorrow

.

simonp · « **Reply #333 on:** 13 December, 2016, 09:17:35 pm »

I had a recovery week after the 200k and today did FTP test. 266W, up 11W in exactly 4 weeks. Pleased with that progress and if this continues will be approaching PB by February.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #334 on:** 13 December, 2016, 10:00:29 pm »

Quote

266W, up 11W in exactly 4 weeks.

Congratulations

simonp · « **Reply #335 on:** 14 December, 2016, 11:14:16 am »

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 13 December, 2016, 10:00:29 pm

Quote
266W, up 11W in exactly 4 weeks.
Congratulations

Hmm, thanks.

I think one of the things I've learned from these tests is that to an extent it's about knowing that you really can keep going when everything is telling you to stop; at the start of the second interval my legs were really not happy with me, but I pushed through it, and actually felt better at the 4 minute point than after 1 minute. That had changed by the end, though. In the end I averaged 296W for the first 8-minute effort and 295W for the second, which suggests pacing is much better than it used to be. In my best result, from May, it was 311W in the first and 304W in the second, as I cracked a bit with about 2 minutes to go.

teethgrinder · « **Reply #336 on:** 14 December, 2016, 11:54:56 am »

Quote from: Chris S on 23 November, 2016, 04:30:55 pm

600?

Jeez - you guys seem to be going at it pretty hard, considering it's only November. I'm barely ticking over with hours of base work.

Just for anyone's interest, my average for the month record was about 3100.

simonp · « **Reply #337 on:** 14 December, 2016, 12:18:10 pm »

Well, I had a look at Sweet Spot Base II high volume, it's an average of 8.8 hours/week with an average weekly TSS of 500.

Fitting that around rowing training will be the main challenge. I've got to do 1.5h today and to be honest that test yesterday has taken a lot out of me.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #338 on:** 14 December, 2016, 08:41:21 pm »

Quote

my average for the month record was about 3100

You know nobody likes a show off?

Does put us in the shade somewhat. Out of interest what are doing in your training now in terms of TSS and FTP? I understand you have a superb aerobic engine with a very low HR?

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #339 on:** 15 December, 2016, 07:33:30 pm »

Hard week at work and pretty stressed so nice to get on the trainer after a rest day yesterday. 2 x20 min intervals at 95% 0f FTP was pretty good with 3 x1 minute sprint intervals. Less stressed now!

DrMekon · « **Reply #340 on:** 17 December, 2016, 12:48:38 am »

Had a terrible night's sleep on Wednesday, followed by a busy day and an evening of the kids being arses. I didn't manage to get on the turbo until late. My workout was 2 x 30m at 95% FTP. I couldn't face the second block.

I was going to tag it on to a 2x12m at 88% ftp session today, but couldn't face it, as I know I have a TSS 165 tempo session on sunday with 4 x 20m at 60rpm (I spin at 97-105 - the more watts required, the more I'll spin). It'll be deth.

What do you guys do when you don't complete a session? I am aware, there's a paper out there that says cyclists are terrors for making hard days too easy and easy days too hard. By catching up, I think I'll be making things worse, when I need that rest day to stand a chance of making it through Sunday's horror show.

simonp · « **Reply #341 on:** 17 December, 2016, 01:02:35 am »

I try not to sweat missing the odd session. If it becomes a habit then it needs addressing. If you're hitting 90% of target then no real issue. Life gets in the way.

2x30m at 95% FTP is hard. On Thursday I did 3x20 at 85%. Should have been on Wednesday but I was too busy with cooking. I couldn't do that after a big meal anyway. So I pushed it by one day. I'm busy tomorrow and Sunday as well then we're away for a week from Tuesday so what I'm going to try to do is fit as much as possible in over the next few days (kind of a mini training camp) with the knowledge that I'll have a week off.

Your plan seems quite tough for this stage of the season. Are you becoming over trained? I got a little freaked at the volume of Sweet Spot Base II in TR with a peak of 9h45 in week 5 and training 6 days a week.

My plan is to do a long endurance session tomorrow, maybe nothing on Sunday and a tough vo2max workout on Monday before my week off.

DrMekon · « **Reply #342 on:** 17 December, 2016, 06:46:30 am »

I've got follow-up blood lactate testing in January, so we'll see. TSB is only just negative 30 day ramp rate is about 4. All looks sensible. Still, it's off the back of training with an inflated FTP, so it will look easier in the numbers than it is the in legs, I think.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #343 on:** 17 December, 2016, 05:12:47 pm »

Similar feeling re training last 3 days. Thursday was good and solid. Friday was rubbish.
Today should have been 3.5 hours long endurance. Out at 6:45 but back in an hour as body not right. Hard week at work and on the bike meant that a day in front of the fire was needed.

Just over 400TSS for the week plus work is enough for now.

I wonder in this mild weather if there are some low grade viral things on the go?

simonp · « **Reply #344 on:** 17 December, 2016, 05:39:47 pm »

It's a time of year when energy levels are lower and there are a lot of things getting in the way.

Chris S · « **Reply #345 on:** 17 December, 2016, 05:46:40 pm »

Quote from: simonp on 17 December, 2016, 05:39:47 pm

It's a time of year when energy levels are lower and there are a lot of things getting in the way.

Funny you should mention that. I've been playing with an app called "Exist" (https://exist.io) which pulls in data from other apps and tries to make correlations between trends. One of the most striking things I've noticed is a steady increase in the amount of sleep I've been getting every night; it tracks the decline in daylight perfectly, since September right through to this week. I haven't made any conscious efforts to get more sleep - it's just happened. It'll be interesting to see if the reverse happens as the days lengthen again.

DrMekon · « **Reply #346 on:** 17 December, 2016, 06:43:00 pm »

Quote from: chrisbainbridge on 17 December, 2016, 05:12:47 pm

I wonder in this mild weather if there are some low grade viral things on the go?

This, for me. Was sneezed over by half my colleagues on thursday, to the point where I lost my temper with one. Consultant saw me yesterday - upped my inhaled steroids, made noises about putting me on a 13th (really) med, but I said wait and see. In return, I have to go back in 6 weeks to make sure I'm okay, promise to phlegm in a pot, and eat gaviscon advance after every meal. Such fun.

rob · « **Reply #347 on:** 17 December, 2016, 07:57:18 pm »

I had some issues recently with my Tue turbo session which is the hardest 75mins I do each week. I often find I haven't recovered from my Sunday long ride and I had issues with pacing them and started too hard. I backed off 2 weeks back but completed the session. General feedback from coach and an article a marathon runner mate of mine sent me was to still complete the session but back off if you have to.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #348 on:** 17 December, 2016, 08:55:56 pm »

Quote

but back off if you have to

I keep being told this by my coach as well.

I find that this can be difficult on the Neo as if I start to drop my cadence the resistance goes up to keep the same power output. I find now that for the 1 minute sessions I switch to resistance mode which allows me to change cadence, etc as i feel what my legs can give.

Pedal Castro · « **Reply #349 on:** 17 December, 2016, 09:05:29 pm »

4x8' on Tues, 5x3' on Wed, both witn average interval power PBs, then 2 days off due to work commitments followed by a hilly 50 mile Z3 ride today and strava PBs up all four of the big hills without trying that hard. Things are going well