Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.

[hulver]

Yes, but you can download a bootable win 10 installation from Microsoft. I’ve tried various low cost codes, but haven’t managed to register it yet, although it sits perfectly happily in my ms account alongside various other registered win 10 installations. Think I booted from sd card.

You don't actually need to buy a copy of windows 10 for it. I've used the downloadable boot image from microsoft to install on an old NUC I use for Zwift. The only thing is you get a constant "Activate Windows" overlay on the bottom right corner of the screen. That shows up all the time, but not while you're running Zwift.

The NUC I use is fairly old, and runs Zwift OK, but can be painful doing updates despite a fairly speedy SSD drive. I've been waiting for 20-30 minutes sometimes waiting for Zwift updates to take place, so I'd recommend a quicker machine than my old Nuc (An Intel NUC5CPYH, 1.6gz Celeron processor)

[simonp]

It's fitting the cassette that's worrying me - how easy is that?

How-to video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAI7RGzrBXs

Edit: the white "tool" mentioned comes with the cassette in the box, if you're buying a new cassette. For a KickR Core as shown in the video the only tool you definitely need is the lockring tool.

[Notsototalnewbie]

It's fitting the cassette that's worrying me - how easy is that?

How-to video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAI7RGzrBXs

Edit: the white "tool" mentioned comes with the cassette in the box, if you're buying a new cassette. For a KickR Core as shown in the video the only tool you definitely need is the lockring tool.

Hmm that makes it look doable (but I've been fooled that way before) though I'd need to buy the lockring tool.

Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?

[grams]

Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?

Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.

Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.

[Notsototalnewbie]

Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?

Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.

Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.

thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.

[simonp]

Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?

Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.

Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.

thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.

The Wahoo Campag free hub is compatible with the kickr core - isn’t that all you need?

[Notsototalnewbie]

Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?

Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.

Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.

thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.

The Wahoo Campag free hub is compatible with the kickr core - isn’t that all you need?

Confusingly, someone asked this question on Wiggle and a Wiggle staff member replied back that it wasn't compatible - but that might have been referring to an older model. It's not clear.

[PaulF]

Does the cassette need to be identical in terms of the amount of teeth on the cogs on the bike? Guess it's a case of making sure the biggest cog isn't too much bigger than the biggest cog on the bike, lest the chain isn't long enough?

Ideally it should be identical, but you can go a few teeth smaller.

Your bigger problem is Campagnolo. Most/all trainers will come with a Shimano freehub - and 10 speed Shimano cassettes are slightly different spacing to 10 speed Campag. You can retrofit a Campagnolo freehub to most trainer brands though.

thanks. Arse. I can see Wahoo do an adapter but it's not compatible with all models. This is getting complicated.

The Wahoo Campag free hub is compatible with the kickr core - isn’t that all you need?

Confusingly, someone asked this question on Wiggle and a Wiggle staff member replied back that it wasn't compatible - but that might have been referring to an older model. It's not clear.

This is Wahoo's take  on it:

This freehub comes in two varieties: one supports 2014 and 2016 Edition with Campagnolo 9, 10, and 11 speed cassettes, while the other supports '18, '20 Edition KICKR and KICKR CORE with most* Campagnolo 10, 11, and 12 speed cassettes.

https://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/accessories/campagnolo-freehub-for-kickr-power-trainer

[simonp]

Indeed, there seem to be two versions of it - the one Wiggle have appears to be the older one.

The new one isn't in stock anywhere that I can see. 

[Notsototalnewbie]

Wonder if something like this might work? Sacrilege some might say but I'm not bothered if it works.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m8b0s150p2151/AMBROSIO-10-Speed-Shimano-spline-Campagnolo-spacing

[zigzag]

this should work and would be the most straightforward solution (a spacer may or may not be required).

[Notsototalnewbie]

this should work and would be the most straightforward solution (a spacer may or may not be required).

Thanks for this and thanks to everyone else who has answered my inane questions. I have decided to get a Kickr Core before we end up in Tier 3/4/umpteen and they all sell out again, plus an Ambrosio cassette and a cassette tool. I can but try and at least the dog is no longer around to get visibly distressed and go into hiding whenever I get the bike tools out.

Used the insurance money from the holiday we had just started before Covid thoroughly ruined it, because we're unlikely to be going far in the near future. Hopefully this will be an antidote to the fact that it's impossible to do a pleasant loop in an hour round here (plus the incident posted about elsewhere has made me a bit warier of the narrow skoggy lanes once you do get out of town).

[simonp]

Good luck with it nstn. The neo comes with a strange cassette which seems to fit both shimano and campag. It looks really odd. It’s a shame wahoo haven’t gone with this approach or allowed you to specify when ordering (I have a distant memory of them doing this in the past, may be wrong).

[Polar Bear]

Hope it all works well for you ntsn.

We're going to pull the trigger on a Core shortly too and a NUC although the NUC is not for the turbo.  There will be a rationalisation of the PC estate.

We have a turbo bike already so the back wheel will be removed and the cassette put onto the Core.   The bike works well for mllePB and I can manage it too so that's good enough.

Now, to join Zwift or something else ... 

With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user?  The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.

[L CC]

With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user?  The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.

You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.

However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture^[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.


[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.

[Polar Bear]

I suspected as much.  Things to ponder ...

[Notsototalnewbie]

Thanks PB and sorry to hijack your thread.

Looks like I may be too late anyway. I ordered from Wiggle (as they were showing in stock, which has always been reliable up til now) and having taken the dosh, I see it's on 'back order' with no indication as to when they might be getting some in.

Most other places also seem to be sold out. Rutland Cycles have 'last few remaining' on click and collect only, which doesn't work for me.

[Polar Bear]

Not a problem.  Lots of useful stuff there for all to see.

I have only had negative experiences with Rutland Cycles.

There seems to be a shortage generally.  I intend to work through the pages of a search and check until I find one - hopefully.  The price seems to be the same anywhere in the UK.

[toontra]

When I was looking in March everywhere was out of stock. I set up an alert on Wiggle had got an email a couple of days later. Ordered quickly!

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[Polar Bear]

Well, I have worked through the pages and, drawn a blank.

We'll be ordering from Wiggle I guess.  Gives me time to get my NUC and do some tech upgrades and computer shuffling. 

[PaulF]

Looks like I was lucky with Rutland last week then. Have to say that despite PB's misgivings I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Rutland again. Despite them estimating 5 days it came in less than 24 hours!.

[Notsototalnewbie]

Looks like I was lucky with Rutland last week then. Have to say that despite PB's misgivings I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Rutland again. Despite them estimating 5 days it came in less than 24 hours!.

They seem to have stopped delivering - click and collect only, which is no use to me.

[drossall]

While you're trying to track down a new trainer, I found this Lunicus thread and this TT forum thread which might be interesting - but you'd probably need Kim to put them into practice

[JonBuoy]

Spurred on by this thread I bought a Kickr from Sigma Sports in Oakham and, as they are fairly local, I picked it up yesterday afternoon.  The shop has only been open 6 weeks, the staff were good, some of the bikes they have on display are stunning!

Got it home, struggled to get it out of the box as it is such a substantial lump of a thing. It seems well put together and relatively easy to set up.  I had a bit of a play on it then heard 'the noise'.

If I allow it to coast down in erg mode where it is trying to get me to hold say 200W it obvously ramps up the torque requirement as the speed drops - you can hear a bit of a currenty hum thing going on.  Just before rotation stops there is a metallic scraping sound coming from the flywheel.  There is no discernible play in the flywheel so my suspicion is that the poles of one or more of the electromagnets that control the resistance are pulling hard enough to reduce the airgap to zero.

Anyway - contacted the shop first thing this morning who said by all means bring it in but you would probably be better off  talking directly to Wahoo.  I was a bit reluctant as I believe that it is the shop's responsibility.  Stuck a support ticket up on the Wahoo website and was amazed/impressed to get a sensible response after 2 hours.  I provided the requested information and two hours later received another message that basically said 'That's not right - we will send you a replacement'.

Obviously I would prefer to have a product that 'just works' but so far I cannot fault Wahoo's response having received one that doesn't.

[toontra]

That's been my experience with Wahoo. Even though it's technically the responsibility of the retailer, Wahoo have said to contact them directly as it speeds the whole process up.

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