Any archers among us?

[mrcharly-YHT]

There was an interesting beastie popular in australia for a while. It had a single recurve limb at the top, and an rigid lower limb with a very large eccentric cam. Drawing it felt similar to drawing a compound with a 30% reduction. It was popular for field shooting as the lower limb was very short, making it easy to shoot over obstacles.

Dunno how efficient it was.

[LEE]

<ignorant guy>
So is a compound bow with a "release" not most of the way to being a crossbow?

A crossbow is like a gun.  You point it at the target and pull the trigger.  The bolt will go where the sight is pointing.

Any other bow (Longbow, flat bow, recurve and compound) requires the user to get absolutely everything perfect, identical to the previous shots, in order for the sight to have any meaning.

Two untrained people will most likely achieve a decent (identical) result with the same crossbow.

Even two trained people will achieve different results with the same bow.

The release-aid I used with my Compound bow did, to some extend, take some of the skill out of it, but my fingers just couldn't take it any more.

The very day I buy a house with a few acres I'l lbe visiting Quicks Archery in Waterlooville.

[andygates]

Bows (of all descriptions) are just machines for storing energy.

....and delivering it over a certain speed profile.  That's the bit that makes compounds so impressive (and longbowmen such bull-backed monsters).

[mrcharly-YHT]

Bows (of all descriptions) are just machines for storing energy.

....and delivering it over a certain speed profile.  That's the bit that makes compounds so impressive (and longbowmen such bull-backed monsters).

Well, yes and now (this is based on my experience of shooting both).  As you crank up the draw weight for a longbow, you don't get faster arrows, you just get to shoot heavier arrows at the same speed (roughly). There aren't any dramatic gains in speed to be made going from 45lb to 80lb.

With compounds, you have a nearly straight arrow path in the bow and a smoother energy transfer. So you can go for a skinny light arrow and get some serious speed. More than double the potential speeds from longbows.
I switched from a 40lb 2-cam compound to a 45lb longbow with similar arrow speeds. Ditched the 45lb bow and stepped up to a 63lb longbow - and was very disappointed. I had to increase the arrow weight and ended up with the same trajectory for much more work. Plus whenever an arrow hit something hard, it disintegrated. 
Hitting the wooden leg of a target stand and breaking it didn't make me popular with the other people using that target.

[tom_e]

Thanks all, I think get it.  There's a scale of choice on skill needed, fun factor and shiny gear.  People enjoy different stuff.  Crossbow occupies a fairly extreme position on the scale, and just adding a trigger to another bow only takes it a tiny tiny bit that way?

Will resist 'nuther sport.  will resist.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Oh, don't resist, don't resist at all.

Some recommendations - don't go fancy. I'd say a takedown recurve with basic sights, of no more than 35lb draw weight to start with.  You don't need the fancy stuff like trigger releases, stabilizers etc.

[clarion]

Very good recommendation as a place to start.  It's fun, and quite addictive.  And you'll end up with lopsided upper body muscles.

Um, that last one may not be an advantage.

[pcolbeck]

Might be if we get a sudden urge to invade France.

[Charlotte]

If we're invading anyone, I want a Bladerunner for Christmas first  

[LEE]

If we're invading anyone, I want a Bladerunner for Christmas first  

Or maybe a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lT4UGQMWrzE&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/lT4UGQMWrzE&rel=1</a>.  This gives the uninitiated a feel of why it's such fun to shoot a 65lb Compound.

Incidentally he's using the same target as I used in the photo above.

Charlotte, sit down before you look at this Bow.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Very good recommendation as a place to start.  It's fun, and quite addictive.  And you'll end up with lopsided upper body muscles.

Um, that last one may not be an advantage.

It has been suggested that my 'snapping shoulder' is due to my using a 63lb longbow obsessively in my mid-teens.
It could also be due to multiple kicks and tramplings from horses.

[LEE]

Very good recommendation as a place to start.  It's fun, and quite addictive.  And you'll end up with lopsided upper body muscles.

Um, that last one may not be an advantage.

It has been suggested that my 'snapping shoulder' is due to my using a 63lb longbow obsessively in my mid-teens.

Is that a euphemism?

[mrcharly-YHT]

http://www.eorthopod.com/content/snapping-scapula-syndrome


My left shoulder blade grinds over my ribs when I move my arm. If I'm careful to stretch and relax, it just rubs. If I'm tense or have been doing physical work, it grinds and crunches audibly over every rib and gets very sore.

[BrianI]

If we're invading anyone, I want a Bladerunner for Christmas first 

      More training wheels than a school bicycle riding lesson   

Could I get one of these for xmas?  Border Black Merlin   

[LEE]

If we're invading anyone, I want a Bladerunner for Christmas first 

      More training wheels than a school bicycle riding lesson   

Could I get one of these for xmas?  Border Black Merlin   

Where are the pulleys and cams?  That's just a stick.

[clarion]

But a beautiful stick, not an accident in the Meccano box

[tom_e]

But a beautiful stick, not an accident in the Meccano box

Now there's an idea. 

[andygates]

I'm sure bike suspension parts could get ... repurposed.

It still amuses that a 65lb compound is an easier draw than a 42lb recurve.  Damn you, SCIENCE!

[Charlotte]

I've often considered attempting to make a bow.  It's not like I'm poorly skilled in the making stuffs department.

Thing is, making a really, really good bow is damned hard and other than assembling them from known components, arrows are just Not Worth Making, so I'll be sticking with the good stuff.

an accident in the Meccano box

Compound bows have never been about looking purdy...

[BrianI]

well, as an update I'm currently borrowing a Samick Cobra Longbow 64" 45lbs as a trial bow for a few weeks.  Seems nice enough to shoot except, it's not a true long bow, as it has flat section limbs with a very slight recurve to their tips. So it's technically neither a long bow, or a flatbow...

A bit of google-fu this morning leads to this rather nice looking longbow:  http://www.thelongbowshop.com/shop/shop.php/longbows-in-stock/ash-maple-self-nock-45lb-28/p_196.html  76" 45#@ 28" draw, 2 laminate ash and maple with self nocks.  


Not too expensive at £175 either.....

* BrianI ponders about his up and coming redundancy monies.....

Ooooh, it looks like I've found another possible longbow, a Keith Rayner Custom design bow:  Custom Longbow Designer by Yew Tree Archery £183 for a 71" between knocks 45#@28" longbow with Lemondwood Belly, Purpleheart core and Maple back, brown spiral bound grip, Black buffallo horn arrow pass, and self knocks.  Looks quite nice!

[LEE]

It still amuses that a 65lb compound is an easier draw than a 42lb recurve.  Damn you, SCIENCE!

No they aren't.  They are easier to hold at maximum draw than the equivalent recurve but, since the maximum power of a compound is near to the "at rest position" so to speak, it takes a lot of grunt to even get a compound moving and getting over the "hump" of the cams..  A compound feels hard to pull for a recurve archer and vice versa (Recurves, to me, feel like they are about to snap as I approach maximum draw).  The power is at opposite ends of the draw. 
My non-archer friends couldn't even get the string to move on my compound

Thread resurrected because, post PBP, I shall be visiting a local club to see if I get the bug for Archery again.  Who knows I may even try one of those wooden stick bows.

This is part of the "LEE tries to find a meaning in life post-PBP" series of articles.

[clarion]

Hope you enjoy it.

[Efrogwr]

A while back the Pope banned the use of crossbows, other than for shooting Muslims...

We used (as a family) to shoot, but I stopped after dislocating my shoulder in an SPD "incident". Mrs E and E Minor were pretty good, but there were problems with their club coach. Eventually, I took him to task over his constant (low level) bullying of E Minor. His response was to disappear*... This, and the loss of the shooting venue, led to their giving up.

*however, he's still on the National Coaching Committee.

The GNAS has recently amended the dress code.

And I prefer bowls (after having tried both).

[LEE]

It still amuses that a 65lb compound is an easier draw than a 42lb recurve.  Damn you, SCIENCE!

No they aren't.  They are easier to hold at maximum draw than the equivalent recurve but, since the maximum power of a compound is near to the "at rest position" so to speak, it takes a lot of grunt to even get a compound moving and getting over the "hump" of the cams..  A compound feels hard to pull for a recurve archer and vice versa (Recurves, to me, feel like they are about to snap as I approach maximum draw).  The power is at opposite ends of the draw. 
My non-archer friends couldn't even get the string to move on my compound

Thread resurrected because, post PBP, I shall be visiting a local club to see if I get the bug for Archery again.  Who knows I may even try one of those wooden stick bows.

This is part of the "LEE tries to find a meaning in life post-PBP" series of articles.

N+1 applies (where N was zero)

Not only did I visit an archery club, I took a beginner's course and subsequently joined.

The club bows are perfectly adequate but there's nothing like a new toy







Hoyt Horizon riser (handle) and SF limbs.  Only 34Lb draw weight and some fairly cheap Easton Alu arrows but I expect I'll get stronger over time and didn't want to invest too much at this (developing) stage.

Conveniently it all takes apart and fits in a nifty backpack (with built in arrow tube).

I'll be trying it for the first time tonight on a very short indoor range.

I want to perfect my technique before getting stabilisers but my goal is to enter some competitions and not come dead last.

[tiermat]

<snip>
..... but my goal is to enter some competitions and not come dead last.

Don't stand in front of the targets then