planning a AAA DIY, how much safety margin should I leave.

[whosatthewheel]

Many AUK awards aren't achievable by the majority of riders, but that in itself is not an argument for making them easier to achieve.

All I am saying is that there aren't enough AAA events in the winter to support the existence of an AAARTY award.

Perms?

There are over 100 perms that attract AAA and are 200km amd under dotted about the country.

The closest to me are probably the Cotswolds ones by Stephen Poulton, but none of them is really convenient and all of them could be optimised in terms of AAA / mileage ratio.
They all head out of Cheltenham (too far) and head south, which is the less hilly part of the Cotswolds and the furthest from me.

I could make my DIY into perms but...

a) the route would require a million info controls or GPS validation only, which is not allowed for some reason (who rides a BP permanent with a card???)
b) John Ward has never replied to a single request over the past 12 months, so the chance of turning a DIY into a perm is quite feeble.

Moreover, DIY is quite convenient for short rides, I don't have to spend money to gather receipts for stuff I don't really need... I can decide to ride one pretty much on the spot, without having to wait for a brevet card to be delivered or virtually delivered... as a loner experience is just so much better than riding a perm

[Greenbank]

If a ride has AAA points then riders are expected not to avoid any climbing.

Hang on, what?

There's no official rule and therefore no sanction if you don't but some/many organisers would like riders to do all of the climbing they intended (even though most of the climbing is enforced by the placement of the controls).

The more that people try and avoid climbing on hilly rides the more organisers will switch to mandatory routes.

[This will probably open up a can of worms...]

[Martin]

If a ride has AAA points then riders are expected not to avoid any climbing.

Hang on, what?

There's no official rule and therefore no sanction if you don't but some/many organisers would like riders to do all of the climbing they intended (even though most of the climbing is enforced by the placement of the controls).

The more that people try and avoid climbing on hilly rides the more organisers will switch to mandatory routes.

[This will probably open up a can of worms...]

no I don't think it will, most AAA events are in sufficiently hilly terrain with no real alternatives to the route other than maybe some slightly less steep roads over the same hilly bit. I have read that an event over the Gospel Pass could be long cut to avoid the Pass itself but both routes I've done made it very impractical. At the end of the day who actually wants to earn AAA without having done the climbing? who are they cheating other than themselves?


I don't think there's any need to switch to mandatory route either. Altough there's one 100km calendar event I'd really like to put on but it would involve about 17 controls! only ever done it as mandatory by GPS DIY. Not really any way to run it as a calendar event, even if it was made mandatory route with secret controls it would not pass muster as the secret controller cannot be in 8-10 places at once.

to me AAA are part of the fun not something to be feared and try to avoid, and you get the best views! Anyone who thinks no hills equals easy come and ride Double Dutch!
 

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Personally, I'd be in favour of getting rid of AAA points for DIY rides but that's a whole other can of worms that's probably best saved for discussion elsewhere...

Disagree, doing so means there is zero incentive to do a DIY of less than 200 km. Also, given the almost complete lack of AAA events over the winter months, it rules out AAARTY as a feasible award for most.

Currently there is 1 BR in December from Tewkesbury, one BP in January and one in February, both from Sussex...

There are 10 Cambrian Series 100k perms, many of which are easy access from Bristol, Birmingham and with a two hour train journey London & Manchester that can be ridden to support an AARTY and these days there's normally one warm weekend a month in winter where you can be safe from ice and snow even in the wildest parts of Wales. 

[whosatthewheel]

Easy access is always a relative concept.

[Delph Cyclist]

... mandatory route with secret controls it would not pass muster as the secret controller cannot be in 8-10 places at once. ...

But you don't need to have a secret controller at all those places, as long as it's a secret.  However, once your riders have met the secret controller they might be inclined to skip the rest of the potential secret controls, unless you also keep secret the number of your secrets.

[Manotea]

The whole concept of a 'secret' control as a route enforcement mechanism, at least as implemented, is essentially, bollocks*

We're rapidly heading towards a time of automated unmanned checkpoints... until we get there, can we stop banging on about 'Secret Controls'... It's so boring...

*Apologies to those offended by precise technical terms.

[Greenbank]

The secret controls on PBP are far from secret if you're not at the pointy end of the race as their location is revealed on twitter by many of the faster lot.

[vorsprung]

If a ride has AAA points then riders are expected not to avoid any climbing.

Hang on, what?

There's no official rule and therefore no sanction if you don't but some/many organisers would like riders to do all of the climbing they intended (even though most of the climbing is enforced by the placement of the controls).

The more that people try and avoid climbing on hilly rides the more organisers will switch to mandatory routes.

[This will probably open up a can of worms...]

It's just BS

Visit the controls you've done the ride

If the org has a bee in their bonnet about AAA compliance they can put controls in to force the ascent to the required level

[BeMoreMike]

A bit borderline... you can ask your validator to check it for you with the altitude tool... but I would try to beef it up with hills or shorten it removing flat bits... I've managed to put together a nice 100 km worth 2 AAA points, which I have used twice so far

https://www.strava.com/activities/1742168295

What a great route...if you don't mind, i've borrowed it for future use 

Have you ever considered doing it in each direction to make it 200km and claim distance points, that'd be a good day out !!

[whosatthewheel]

A bit borderline... you can ask your validator to check it for you with the altitude tool... but I would try to beef it up with hills or shorten it removing flat bits... I've managed to put together a nice 100 km worth 2 AAA points, which I have used twice so far

https://www.strava.com/activities/1742168295

What a great route...if you don't mind, i've borrowed it for future use 

Have you ever considered doing it in each direction to make it 200km and claim distance points, that'd be a good day out !!

quite a painful day out... 

The other way is less fun, you have to go up the A 44 at Fish hill and down lots of steep descents

[Martin]

a) the route would require a million info controls or GPS validation only, which is not allowed for some reason (who rides a BP permanent with a card???)
b) John Ward has never replied to a single request over the past 12 months, so the chance of turning a DIY into a perm is quite feeble.

Yes a perm (BR or BP) needs to be available as paper validation, so there is a natural limit of about 12 controls on the card and riders won't thank you for that many questions on a 100k card (or receipts)

I've found John very helpful in turning my DIY's into perms (3 of them) it helps to send payment for a few cards up front IMO, a sign you are serious  I can send the proforma if you need one

[whosatthewheel]

a) the route would require a million info controls or GPS validation only, which is not allowed for some reason (who rides a BP permanent with a card???)
b) John Ward has never replied to a single request over the past 12 months, so the chance of turning a DIY into a perm is quite feeble.

Yes a perm (BR or BP) needs to be available as paper validation, so there is a natural limit of about 12 controls on the card and riders won't thank you for that many questions on a 100k card (or receipts)

I've found John very helpful in turning my DIY's into perms (3 of them) it helps to send payment for a few cards up front IMO, a sign you are serious  I can send the proforma if you need one

I did the proforma, but probably is just as well, I might not be that serious... I'd be happy to manage a GPS type of perm, but cards, having to buy them upfront and maybe store them for years and the hassle of stamps and cheques and addressed envelopes, it's just so old fashioned for such small transactions that it seems too much drag. I think a container to share DIY routes is probably more helpful and it serves the same purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I do like a brevet card with all the little stamps, like you get at the BCM, but an empty one with some stapled receipts is of no value to me and I suspect I am in the majority on this

[Martin]

Don't get me wrong, I do like a brevet card with all the little stamps, like you get at the BCM, but an empty one with some stapled receipts is of no value to me and I suspect I am in the majority on this

yes you are; I avoid buying perm cards rather than virtual if I can help it, and have taken to buying blank perm cards from John (same price as pre printed) so I can print them on demand. I will get no paper perm applications for months then 4 at once for the same ride!

[whosatthewheel]

This could make a good 200 BR perm, good for SR Cymru, but probably marginally short of climbing for AAA... borderline, it would be interesting to ride it as DIY and see if it gets any point. Either way, a superb day on the bike... maybe first thing in October if the weather holds
Undecided whether a start at Llangollen as mapped or Chirk would be best... either way controls would be Rhyl, Great Orme (info), Betws Y coed and Llanynog

https://www.strava.com/routes/14795731

Thoughts?

[Martin]

This could make a good 200 BR perm, good for SR Cymru, but probably marginally short of climbing for AAA... borderline, it would be interesting to ride it as DIY and see if it gets any point. Either way, a superb day on the bike... maybe first thing in October if the weather holds
Undecided whether a start at Llangollen as mapped or Chirk would be best... either way controls would be Rhyl, Great Orme (info), Betws Y coed and Llanynog

https://www.strava.com/routes/14795731

Thoughts?

only one way to find out  I think it's safely over 2800m (even for a 200km section). There is a map of perms on the AUK website but it won't open. I know CrazyEnglishTriathlete OTP organises loads of perms in Wales but not sure if they cover this bit. Even if they do and it's a new route always welcome.

[whosatthewheel]

This could make a good 200 BR perm, good for SR Cymru, but probably marginally short of climbing for AAA... borderline, it would be interesting to ride it as DIY and see if it gets any point. Either way, a superb day on the bike... maybe first thing in October if the weather holds
Undecided whether a start at Llangollen as mapped or Chirk would be best... either way controls would be Rhyl, Great Orme (info), Betws Y coed and Llanynog

https://www.strava.com/routes/14795731

Thoughts?

only one way to find out  I think it's safely over 2800m (even for a 200km section). There is a map of perms on the AUK website but it won't open. I know CrazyEnglishTriathlete OTP organises loads of perms in Wales but not sure if they cover this bit. Even if they do and it's a new route always welcome.

I did look at his perms, none of them cover this area, the 2G is probably the closest in the sense that it goes through Llangollen, Bala and Betws-Y-Coed but using a different route.

I have to say, this is a labour of love, it is a "the best of" taken from the last few years of riding in Wales. The only section I am not sure about is from Ruthin to Rhyl and then to Conwy Bay, I just needed to link the Horseshoe pass with the Great Orme and that did seem the least painful way of doing it. A more direct route would have added about 400 mt of relentless climbing.
From there the lovely B road to Llanwrst and Betws Y Coed (not sure why Colin chose to stick to the A 470 on his 2G, when the B road is prettier, quieter and probably just as fast) and then the Miltig Cerrig pass from Bala, again a stunning road

[Somnolent]

I'd be happy to manage a GPS type of perm, but cards, having to buy them upfront and maybe store them for years and the hassle of stamps and cheques and addressed envelopes, it's just so old fashioned for such small transactions that it seems too much drag.

To be sure as a Perm organizer it is something of a faff, but to me it's the continuation of a tradition, the fulfillment of helping to bring the system up to date with offering GPS validation, and the joy of getting some truly lovely comments back from the riders as to how much they've enjoyed my route.

FWIW my Round the Plain (not an AAA ride I hasten to add) went through a dozen iterations/refinements as a DIY,  finally becoming a Perm some years ago, and next year (with a more slight changes) being run for the first time as a Calendar event.