Beyond XP

[Vince]

So XP is out of support. How should I introduce Mrs Wunja to the wonderful world of *nix?

Though Mrs W has computing qualifications and worked for 14 years in a mainframe environment, she is not confident with WIMPs operating systems. I have put off changing as long as possible for this reason.

[T42]

You could start with the Bourne shell & work up.

My own XP problem is a little different. I run 64-bit W7 but I have clients using VB6 programs and I need the XP emulator to maintain their VB6 stuff. The emulator has access to my main disks and to the Internet so I'm wondering if it might not be a back door into my main system. Drat.

[mrcharly-YHT]

t42, wouldn't running XP in a virtual machine be more secure?

Vince, Mint is nice and friendly looking. Comes in various flavours, with suitable utilities built in.

[ian]

All Linux is beardy.

Buy a Mac.

[Chris S]

All Linux is beardy.

Buy a Mac.

and swap beard for pony-tail 

[vorsprung]

All Linux is beardy.

Buy a Mac.

20 years of Linux use here
No beard, sorry

The main advantage of the Mac is that they tend to need less support and have a higher customer satisfaction rating
The Linux advantage is lower cash price.  But of course you will pay in time making it user friendly

[Vince]

Microsoft will stop sending out patches. So it will continue to work, but any newly discovered security flaws won't be fixed, potentially leaving it vulnerable

[Dibdib]

Your friend's computer will still work (well, as well as XP ever works) - the end of support means that if any new bugs - including security weaknesses - are discovered, Microsoft will not be issuing updates. It therefore leaves any internet-connected Windows XP vulnerable to attack.

[Biggsy]

XP will still be supported by AVG and other anti-malware programs.  I will not be advising everyone I know with XP to ditch it in a hurry.

As for calling MS for support, you never do that anyway, do you? 

[Vince]

No, they call you! 

[Biggsy]

Also, Microsoft Security Essentials on XP will continue receiving updates until July 2015.
 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25758308

- Not as good as operating system patching, but that has only limited success anyway.

[Chris S]

Plenty of business don't care. I've recently been on Gov sites where they're still running Windows NT, SQL Server 2000 and all manner of ancient software.

[Pickled Onion]

All Linux is beardy.

Buy a Mac.

You've never been in the Mac Shop Store?

[Polar Bear]

We intend to keep one XP machine for two specific purposes.   I went Win7 in January 2012 and Mlle PB is about to follow suit.

[Euan Uzami]

Apparently the government paid 5 mil to extend support (to them) by a year.
Why didn't they just spend it on updated licenses?

When xp finally does die the thing that will make a lot of I.T people's lives a lot easier is the fact that IE6/7 will probably (hopefully) die with it. That's pretty big even just in the nhs.

[andygates]

Apparently the government paid 5 mil to extend support (to them) by a year.
Why didn't they just spend it on updated licenses?

Because we simply can't get off XP as quickly as we'd like: we're gagging to get everything up to 7, but there are big bits of our software setup that are broken for 7 -- for us, mostly specialist medical stuff written a million years ago, but also some single-sign-on software that the vendor swore would be updated but the update plain didn't work.  Changing *that* would be throwing good money after bad when we're halfway through its service life.

Large corporates move slowly because of stacked dependency crap like this.  Coping with the simmering frustration is a basic job skill (we've had people quit because they couldn't Do Everything Right).

In our place we have about 800 of 3800 PCs still on XP; our slice of that 5.5 mil works out at £16 per PC for a year of security patching.  That's actually not a bad deal at all.  A year gives us space to move the bulk and pick off the freaky gear bit by bit.  Why didn't we get it all done last year? We were finishing up our 7 deployment, and fending off assholes who want 8 or Ipads (GO THE FUCK AWAY).  And hiring someone to oversee all this stuff -- I'm just a server monkey.  Which reminds me, I have some Win2000 servers to virtualize...

IE6 died years ago in the NHS; IE7 is mandated for some national products so you can't just throw it away until they sort it.  And because it was mandated by them, it's the standard to which Bob's Patient Wrangling System was written, and Bob has retired, and the company has been sold...  *and breathe*

For home users looking to switch, I hear that Linux Mint is the free-and-nice variant of choice right now.

...which reminds me, that no-screen-bad-fans old laptop I use as a NAS/torrent/sync box is XP. Arse.

[Canardly]

Q. Why do we consider it acceptable that provider drops support at a given date for a product?

[andygates]

Because software is not a consumer durable; it's not a real thing.  The EULA's are full of slippery clauses.  This is the first time it's really been an issue, because it's the first time the dropped system has been truly ubiquitous.

[ian]

Q. Why do we consider it acceptable that provider drops support at a given date for a product?

A: Because maintaining software costs money. More money than it earns. Money that might better be spent elsewhere because we're not charities and we need to keep the mothership afloat. That Microsoft had kept that superannuated piece of crap supported for so long is a surprise. Windows 8 wouldn't have been so shit had it not been dragging the XP albatross. Possibly. Mind you, if I ran Microsoft that I'd bring back the search cat and invent a robot called Bill that pipes espresso out of its nose while doing your taxes.

[Canardly]

I understand the economics but consider a bus over 10 years old is allowed to fall apart.

[Dibdib]

The bus manufacturer isn't obliged to fix your bus indefinitely. It isn't even obliged to produce spare parts indefinitely. It's maintained, at the owner's expense, for as long as it's economically cheaper to fix it than to replace it. I have no idea about commercial vehicles but most consumer cars come with what, a three year (very) limited warranty?

Back to software, I don't see what's so unreasonable about the lifespan MS have given WinXP. It's not like people haven't known for a really long time that it's been superceded, and while I feel for Andy, shittily-built third party applications are very much Not Their Problem. XP is what, twelve years old now? In comparison, even the "Long Term Support" releases of Ubuntu are only supported for three years and Debian supports each release until they replace its replacement. (ETA: and Apple ceased security patching for Snow Leopard in December 2013, less than five years after release)

[SteveC]

Also don't forget that most people don't pay any support costs for their OS software. You buy the software (usually as far as Windows is concerned) with the computer, then expect it to be updated for ever for no more money. Even where support is paid for, there comes a time when it is not worth the providers while to maintain it.
I used to work with a lot of old HP kit. They had a business model where, if you paid the support contract, you were guaranteed a 5 year end-of-life warning on any software and a 10 year warning for hardware. And their support contracts could be eye-wateringly expensive. But you still didn't get it for ever.

[Canardly]

Seems to me that the op sys business model is a tad flawed. You need to be able to move to a situation whereby you can be as simple or as sophisticated as you like or can afford. MS take note I have just provided your business plan for the next millenia.

[andygates]

The bus manufacturer IS obliged to allow third-party companies to make compatible parts; software aggressively fights that.

Most people don't even know that they have an OS.  They have "a windows computer" and that's that.  Hence all the worried grannies.

[SteveC]

Of course it didn't help that Vista wasn't accepted by the business community so a lot of organisations were buying new machines and immediately 'down' grading them to XP. If Vista had been as good as W7 this wouldn't have happened (but it appears the same is happening with W8).