Author Topic: ACP Randonneur 10000  (Read 11902 times)

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #25 on: 28 September, 2022, 10:57:34 pm »
What I understood is that if you send in your ACP10k claim before October 31st 2022 having met all requirements you can still use a SR600. If you meet for example every requirement except PBP (or a BRM 1000, or ...) and send in a claim next year September then you also need to do a BRM 600 with 8000m climbing, the SR600 you did in the past is then "bonus".
agreed, so the question is if the rides were all completed prior to October 2022, must the claim form also be submitted before 01/11/22? or will they accept late admin as long as the riders were in the window. It would suck to miss out because BRM were sitting on a large number of homogulations when the deadline slipped by.

Really regretting not riding LEJOG now.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #26 on: 29 September, 2022, 01:11:54 am »

well I do have on my AUK record Bryan Chapman Memorial 2019 which allegedly had 8500m, the question is how that climb is assesses by ACP, i really don't think they've though this through, most BRMs do not record the level of climb, so how will they know when anyone claims  the award, whether their rides count or not?  will someone investigate what the route of the event was at the time and verify on openrunner that the climb was sufficient? Will they accept AUK BRM points?

How will it work for BRMs without mandatory route ?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #27 on: 29 September, 2022, 09:11:59 am »
What I understood is that if you send in your ACP10k claim before October 31st 2022 having met all requirements you can still use a SR600. If you meet for example every requirement except PBP (or a BRM 1000, or ...) and send in a claim next year September then you also need to do a BRM 600 with 8000m climbing, the SR600 you did in the past is then "bonus".
agreed, so the question is if the rides were all completed prior to October 2022, must the claim form also be submitted before 01/11/22? or will they accept late admin as long as the riders were in the window. It would suck to miss out because BRM were sitting on a large number of homogulations when the deadline slipped by.

Really regretting not riding LEJOG now.

Surely they will just assess it under rules in place at the time you completed the events, not when you submit your claim?

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #28 on: 29 September, 2022, 11:13:30 am »

well I do have on my AUK record Bryan Chapman Memorial 2019 which allegedly had 8500m, the question is how that climb is assesses by ACP, i really don't think they've though this through, most BRMs do not record the level of climb, so how will they know when anyone claims  the award, whether their rides count or not?  will someone investigate what the route of the event was at the time and verify on openrunner that the climb was sufficient? Will they accept AUK BRM points?

How will it work for BRMs without mandatory route ?

J
well, quite. It seems the whole Super Randonees are not under our control any more, so we will replace them with something similar which we do control for this award, has a whole load of complications they haven't considered.

I wonder if their solution will be to ask for a gpx track with the submission, but whatever they do is going to be more admin than sticking with the current requirements, where they just need to check if someone is on the list of finishers for super randonees. Now someone needs to determine whether or not the 600 BRM does meet the requirements as the applicant suggests.

Maybe they do have all the climbing figures in their database, in the same way they have finishers times, even though these are not published elsewhere.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #29 on: 29 September, 2022, 12:33:52 pm »
Surely they will just assess it under rules in place at the time you completed the events, not when you submit your claim?
So, does this mean,
If you completed a BRM 600 in the last six years it will become valid a qualifier on October 31st?
or
From October 31st you will need to do a BRM 600 and prior to that date you will have needed to have done one of the SR600s?
I've not done one of the SR 600s but I think I have done a BRM 600 with over 8000M climbing (Kernow & Southwest . Interested as I've now completed LEL and everything else bar this 600.

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #30 on: 29 September, 2022, 01:06:16 pm »
I'm in the same situation, Jon. I completed my 600 last year and that has 9000 metres of climbing. Might work out the rest and put in a claim to see what happens

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #31 on: 29 September, 2022, 01:45:10 pm »
French randonneuring organisations tend to measure altitude totals with OpenRunner. Other mapping might give totals inconsistent with OpenRunner.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #32 on: 29 September, 2022, 01:56:57 pm »
Surely they will just assess it under rules in place at the time you completed the events, not when you submit your claim?
So, does this mean,
If you completed a BRM 600 in the last six years it will become valid a qualifier on October 31st?
or
From October 31st you will need to do a BRM 600 and prior to that date you will have needed to have done one of the SR600s?
I've not done one of the SR 600s but I think I have done a BRM 600 with over 8000M climbing (Kernow & Southwest . Interested as I've now completed LEL and everything else bar this 600.
The way I read the rules, ACP have now changed them, with immediate effect. And as written the option for applications until 31 Oct to fill the hilly 600 row is either:
1) a SR600 homologated by 31 Oct 2022, or
2) a BRM 600 with 8000m of climb
From 1 Nov, the requirement is a BRM 600 with 8000m of climb, without the option. A SR600 homologated by 31 Oct 2022 can be used for the additional kilometres (2 x SR+ and all the mandatories adds up to 86,000): so an applicant needs another 14 'points'.
The hilly BRM, can like all the other mandatories be done 'anytime' (within the 6 years, as amended by the pandemic codicil). So mine will be the KSW (2016, but my last ride on the list was PBP 2019 - so all done in 40 months). That was certainly hilly enough, with the quality assurance of @Ian H as organiser. I am deliberately using that 600 rather than my BCMs for the climbing assurance aspect. Deano's 9000+m will crack it no probs (if BRM).
The challenges 'going forward' (ugh) are:
1) many foreign BRM calendars don't list climb
2) the only UK 600 next year which might be hilly enough is not yet on the calendar: Bryan Chapman Memorial (organised by . . . .?)
3) How many organisers are going to organise a hilly calendar 600 (40 hour time limit)? With checkpoints able to provide PoP. How many riders will choose those rides?

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #33 on: 29 September, 2022, 02:00:15 pm »
It is an interesting question of exactly which "BRM 600 with 8000 meters climbing" will qualify.

I did the BCM in 2018 and it got me 8.5 AAA points so I believe this means 8500 meters of climbing by Audax UK rules. On Strava however I see this ride has 6,333m elevation. So I wonder if  ACP will accept this for my 10k award claim when I finish PBP next year?

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #34 on: 29 September, 2022, 02:12:59 pm »
so the question is if the rides were all completed prior to October 2022, must the claim form also be submitted before 01/11/22? or will they accept late admin as long as the riders were in the window. It would suck to miss out because BRM were sitting on a large number of homogulations when the deadline slipped by.
No, there is no limit (aiui) on when you submit the application. You (I think) have all the rides you need in place, with LEL included. When I successfully applied for the ACP 5000 after PBP but before it had been homologated, Chris (AUK's ACP rep) said just list it, with your plate number and they would sort it. They did.
As far as I can see ACP do not publish PBP homologation numbers (happy to be otherwise advised).
Example: 1200   18 Aug 2019   PARIS-BREST-PARIS     I112-#2973   https://www.pbpresults.com/2019

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #35 on: 29 September, 2022, 02:53:35 pm »
French randonneuring organisations tend to measure altitude totals with OpenRunner. Other mapping might give totals inconsistent with OpenRunner.
Going to OpenRunner (which I have used before to check SR600 climbs), they have recently upgraded to a subscription model.
Note that the French BRM list does not include climbs so unless the route is shared (Sophie's is - go to ACP BRM 6000 2022 list) one can't check whether the climb is more than 8000m.
I surmise that when 'they' revised the ACP 10000 rules, cutting the SR600 out of ACP 'approved' rides and the requirement, the person(s) involved didn't really think the practicalities through (v happy to be disabused of this assessment).
Very few Brits on the ACP 10000 list, btw.
https://www.audax-club-parisien.com/en/our-organizations/randonneur-10000-en/#ResultsRandonneur10000

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #37 on: 29 September, 2022, 03:21:24 pm »
Very few Brits on the ACP 10000 list, btw.

One more in the pipeline. I submitted my application form a few months ago, including a SR600 as a SR600.

Eddington: 133 miles    Max square: 43x43

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #38 on: 28 November, 2022, 05:50:52 am »
Currently based in SE Asia and looking for a 600 with the required 8,000m climbing.

 The concern for me is whether events which have the reported 8,000m on the shared route, say rwgps, have been registered as such with ACP? Is there a process for this even? As a claimant how would we prove that it met this requirement?

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #39 on: 28 November, 2022, 09:22:51 am »
Currently based in SE Asia and looking for a 600 with the required 8,000m climbing.

 The concern for me is whether events which have the reported 8,000m on the shared route, say rwgps, have been registered as such with ACP? Is there a process for this even? As a claimant how would we prove that it met this requirement?

How would we even find the required events? ACP publishes lists of events in all countries but doesn't publish the recognised climbing.

AUK events which are BRM, 600km and attract more than 8AAA points are as follows
Bryan Chapman Memorial  (8.5)  (will ACP assess this by openrunner and reduce the climb figure?)
Pendle 600 (10)  seems like a route as challenging as a super randonee, but with only 40 hours to complete instead of 60.

The more I think about this the more I think someone in ACP didn't think through their knee jerk reaction of " if SR600s are going to be run by someone else, then they will no longer count." Even though of course they recognise LRM events as part of the requirement, which are alos run by other organisation.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #40 on: 28 November, 2022, 12:01:44 pm »

How would we even find the required events? ACP publishes lists of events in all countries but doesn't publish the recognised climbing.

...



The list of events on ACPs website isn't complete either. Currently it only shows France, Slovenia, Netherlands, Turkey and UAE in their list for the current (new) season.

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #41 on: 28 November, 2022, 12:21:05 pm »

How would we even find the required events? ACP publishes lists of events in all countries but doesn't publish the recognised climbing.

...



The list of events on ACPs website isn't complete either. Currently it only shows France, Slovenia, Netherlands, Turkey and UAE in their list for the current (new) season.
The Netherlands list is far from a complete list, I looked after finding they only listed 600km BRMs in France, and I was sure Netherlands had some too. Maybe it's just due to the time of year, and it will be completed over time.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #42 on: 15 December, 2022, 05:28:06 pm »
Very few Brits on the ACP 10000 list, btw.

One more in the pipeline. I submitted my application form a few months ago, including a SR600 as a SR600.

Yay! Just received confirmation that my application was successful. I should be receiving the diploma and medal sometime in January.  :)

Eddington: 133 miles    Max square: 43x43

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #43 on: 15 December, 2022, 07:10:52 pm »
 :thumbsup: Congratulations Andrew!

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #44 on: 15 December, 2022, 11:49:34 pm »
Very few Brits on the ACP 10000 list, btw.
One more in the pipeline. I submitted my application form a few months ago, including a SR600 as a SR600.
Yay! Just received confirmation that my application was successful. I should be receiving the diploma and medal sometime in January.  :)
How about in person in Paris on 7 January?

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #45 on: 16 December, 2022, 05:25:18 am »
How about in person in Paris on 7 January?
It was a bit odd they suggest you can collect the award in Paris. For anybody but a Parisian that sounds like a costly and wasteful suggestion.

Eddington: 133 miles    Max square: 43x43

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #46 on: 16 December, 2022, 05:42:05 am »
The reason is in the name. Audax Club Parisien is very much Paris-based, quite small and with few members far from Paris. The January meeting is their biggest meeting of the year and an appropriate venue to present awards and to take commemorative photos of the recipients. If people can’t or don’t want to attend, then their award arrives in the mail. Nothing lost but attending the meeting is a bonus.

HK and I have attended a couple of times and it felt appropriate that people handing out the awards and those witnessing it understood the difficulties overcome in achieving them. Recognition by their peers, I guess. Listening to some stories afterwards was also memorable.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #47 on: 16 December, 2022, 04:51:41 pm »
My experience of OpenRunner was that it underscored the elevation on the Cambrian 6C Super Randonnnee in comparison with other methods of checking, including a painstaking contour count - 10,122m vs 11,100 - 12,000 by other methods.  However, my assumption would be that they would take the published figure as it would be a faff to replicate the route, but that's just innocent supposition.

As someone with a penchant for hilly 600km events, my Garmin agrees with me that some 8000m ascent rides are more hilly than others.
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 183 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  116 (nautical miles)

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #48 on: 16 December, 2022, 05:35:18 pm »
My experience of OpenRunner was that it underscored the elevation on the Cambrian 6C Super Randonnnee in comparison with other methods of checking, including a painstaking contour count - 10,122m vs 11,100 - 12,000 by other methods.  However, my assumption would be that they would take the published figure as it would be a faff to replicate the route, but that's just innocent supposition.

As someone with a penchant for hilly 600km events, my Garmin agrees with me that some 8000m ascent rides are more hilly than others.

Bryan Chapman wasn't accepted as it was just under 8000m on RWGPS, way under on OpenRunner but ~8400m published based on the AUK AAA validator.

Re: ACP Randonneur 10000
« Reply #49 on: 16 December, 2022, 09:00:24 pm »
How about in person in Paris on 7 January?
It was a bit odd they suggest you can collect the award in Paris. For anybody but a Parisian that sounds like a costly and wasteful suggestion.
Usually AUK sends a representative to this meeting who collects the awards.